Service to Humanity vs Service to God

[Ghost_007]

What is the higher principle in religion - I guess there are three options

Service to humanity is greater than service to god
Service to god is greater than service to humanity
Service to god and service to humanity are the same phenomena

You’re supposed to find a balance between them. (1 & 2)

All the Prophets and Saints used to isolate themselves in order to contemplate and worship, once they had reached a certain level they were commanded to live amongst their people, listen to them and take on their burdens.

The Prophet Muhammad said that one who lives in isolation, worshipping all day and night can never reach the level of the person who worships moderately but lives amongst the people, helps them with their problems and brings them comfort.

Allahu Akbar.

 

[lightgigantic]

The superior man serves no one but himself. In serving himself, his natural qualities of virtue provide service to others, via the benefit which arises out of his actions. Thus neither service to humanity nor God is warranted.

Sounds like a good recipe for social chaos - how do you approach conflict resolution with such an outlook?

 

[lightgigantic]

You’re supposed to find a balance between them. (1 & 2)

All the Prophets and Saints used to isolate themselves in order to contemplate and worship, once they had reached a certain level they were commanded to live amongst their people, listen to them and take on their burdens.

The Prophet Muhammad said that one who lives in isolation, worshipping all day and night can never reach the level of the person who worships moderately but lives amongst the people, helps them with their problems and brings them comfort.

Allahu Akbar.

Then one could argue that there is no point in worshipping god since one's time would be better spent in humanitarian endeavours

Also one could argue that god is not great because one is required to help him re-establish order in a world besieged by problems

 

[mustafhakofi]

Then one could argue that there is no point in worshipping god since one's time would be better spent in humanitarian endeavours

there's hope for you yet.

 

[Gordon]

The problem with this thread is debating 'serve'.

The commendment from Jesus was love God and your neighbour (i.e. everyone else) as yourself.

It is the love that is primary. If you truly love someone, you want to serve them. You may serve them of course for many different (and less honourable) motives. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, it was the son who did not go off who was the real villain, because he served his father out of duty and then complained about it. The other son wasted his money and lived recklessly but finally came to his senses and returned home. Despite 'screwing up' quite badly he understood that he had made some bad mistaks but the other one was a self righteous hypocrite who was probably jealous of his brother's adventures. So service alone is not the requirement.

This is the direct message in 1 John 4 (Message Version):

The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love. This is how God showed his love for us: God sent his only Son into the world so we might live through him. This is the kind of love we are talking about—not that we once upon a time loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to clear away our sins and the damage they've done to our relationship with God.
11-12My dear, dear friends, if God loved us like this, we certainly ought to love each other. No one has seen God, ever. But if we love one another, God dwells deeply within us, and his love becomes complete in us—perfect love!

.......................


20-21If anyone boasts, "I love God," and goes right on hating his brother or sister, thinking nothing of it, he is a liar. If he won't love the person he can see, how can he love the God he can't see? The command we have from Christ is blunt: Loving God includes loving people. You've got to love both.


regards,



Gordon.

 

[lightgigantic]

there's hope for you yet.

Just pointing out the flaws of that perspective - if you want to counter it by establishing your views you are welcome - other wise we are left to ping pong our benedictions back and forth - the moment one thinks it is inappropriate to discuss philosophy in regard to religion is the moment one is inappropriate.

 

[TimeTraveler]

What is the higher principle in religion - I guess there are three options

Service to humanity is greater than service to god
Service to god is greater than service to humanity
Service to god and service to humanity are the same phenomena

Your question does not make sense. Service to humanity is service to God.

 

[lightgigantic]

Your question does not make sense. Service to humanity is service to God.

Then one can argue that your statement does not make sense since what would be the difference between a charitable atheist and a charitable theist (in other words your statement seems to suggest that god is a non-entity)

 

[Godless]

. Service to God would be a personal matter between yourself and God, and the type and range of things which people are called apon to do is greatly varied and endless. From the crazed artist, to the autistic piano player, to the store manager, and short order cook.

Hmmm...From the lunatic who walks in to a church and shoots people and comits suitside, from the midless idiot who shoot abortion doctors, cause they are killing life, from the ones who tie a bomb on their bodies and blow themselves up in public. Now wouldn't you say that these people are also serving god in their own personal way?

click

click

click

Check links are all these idiots also serving their god?


*Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994.*click


Godless

 

[lightgigantic]

Godless

So I guess now you have to examine the nature of sacrifice -

BG 4.32 All these different types of sacrifice are approved by the Vedas, and all of them are born of different types of work. Knowing them as such, you will become liberated.

First you see if the sacrifice is approved by scripture - whether one is applying scripture properly to time place and circumstance can be checked whether it is conducive to liberation or not

BG 4.33: O chastiser of the enemy, the sacrifice performed in knowledge is better than the mere sacrifice of material possessions. After all, O son of Pṛthā, all sacrifices of work culminate in transcendental knowledge.

Sacrifice should also culminate in developing knowledge of god andone's relationship with him

BG 4.34: Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.

Independant whimsy doesn't seem to be advocated

BG 4.35: Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other words, that they are Mine.

And whether one is stabilized on such a platform of liberation can be qualified by one having the vision that all living entities are seperated parts of god (god is independantand distinct from the living entity of course - but all living entities owe their source to to god) - if a person is killing people in the name of religion it, it tends to indicate exactly that - they are actually killing people for some other reason, but are doing it in the name of religion

 

[lightgigantic]

Gordon

The problem with this thread is debating 'serve'.

The commendment from Jesus was love God and your neighbour (i.e. everyone else) as yourself.

It is the love that is primary. If you truly love someone, you want to serve them.

agreed

You may serve them of course for many different (and less honourable) motives. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, it was the son who did not go off who was the real villain, because he served his father out of duty and then complained about it. The other son wasted his money and lived recklessly but finally came to his senses and returned home. Despite 'screwing up' quite badly he understood that he had made some bad mistaks but the other one was a self righteous hypocrite who was probably jealous of his brother's adventures. So service alone is not the requirement.

But the questionis whether one should serve (and hence love) humanity primarily or god primarily

This is the direct message in 1 John 4 (Message Version):

The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love. This is how God showed his love for us: God sent his only Son into the world so we might live through him. This is the kind of love we are talking about—not that we once upon a time loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to clear away our sins and the damage they've done to our relationship with God.


11-12My dear, dear friends, if God loved us like this, we certainly ought to love each other. No one has seen God, ever. But if we love one another, God dwells deeply within us, and his love becomes complete in us—perfect love!

.......................

There is a quote from the gita

BG 6.30: For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

The idea is that the premise for proper love is love for god first and foremost
its the platform of proper knowledge

BG 4.35: Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other words, that they are Mine.

20-21If anyone boasts, "I love God," and goes right on hating his brother or sister, thinking nothing of it, he is a liar. If he won't love the person he can see, how can he love the God he can't see? The command we have from Christ is blunt: Loving God includes loving people. You've got to love both.


regards,



Gordon.

Actually I formed this thread as an oblique reference to whether in circumstances of dire material problems one should put aside whatever spiritual agenda one may have and focus on solving the material problems or whether the source of solving material problems (ie problems with humanity) is best addressed by looking atthe spiritualproblems (the problems humaity has with god)

What do you think?

 

[heavymetal]

What is the higher principle in religion - I guess there are three options

Service to humanity is greater than service to god
Service to god is greater than service to humanity
Service to god and service to humanity are the same phenomena

IN RELIGION service to god is greater , than anything else ......

OUTSIDE RELIGION service to humanity is greater , than anything else .....

Then again, humans are for real and god only exists in the fantasy of religious people - as Lord Insane just said about the souls in your other thread !!!!!

Have a nice day LightG ....

 

[lightgigantic]

IN RELIGION service to god is greater , than anything else ......

OUTSIDE RELIGION service to humanity is greater , than anything else .....

Then again, humans are for real and god only exists in the fantasy of religious people - as Lord Insane just said about the souls in your other thread !!!!!

Have a nice day LightG ....

lol - In the absence of premises are you looking for a battle of wills instead of debate of ideas?

How do you expect me to reply?

me - "Is not!!"
you - "Is to!!"
me - "Is not!!"
you - "Is to!!"
me - "Is not!!"
you - "Is to!!"
me - "Is not!!"
you - "Is to!!"
me - "Is not!!"
you - "Is to!!"
...................etc etc