Seeing Things Other People Don't

[PsychoticEpisode]

If you're one of those folks who sees things others don't then why do you consider it psychic? Generally speaking, there are more who don't see then do. So why is it that those who do, think themselves either gifted or privileged? Despite criticism and ridicule the seer maintains their visions are part of some unusual talent they possess.

I'm not talking about phony psychics but of people who are adamant their endowments are genuine. It seems that this kind of behavior is accepted more than that of a hallucinating mental patient or a diagnosed schizophrenic. If your one of those two types then you have no chance of gaining the psychic label, you're nuts to the world.

 

[Doreen]

Because it works, whatever that means to each person. Things seem to work better if these things are taken as information/real as opposed to ignoring or discounting them. The process of evaluating whether it works can be a poor one or a good one as with any skill. Why should people who are great at reading the poker faces of other players deny their ability because so few other's can. Likewise pretty much any skill.
And by 'it works' I am mean something broad. For some it might be enriching. For others informative. For others giving a sense of security and forewarning. And other options are there also.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The process of evaluating whether it works can be a poor one or a good one as with any skill. Likewise pretty much any skill.

Is it a good skill if one's self analysis results in declaring themselves to be psychic? If one is experiencing things others don't then wouldn't seeking a professional opinion be a wiser decision?

But I think I understand. A psychic believes they have the skill to pull it off. IOW they have a skill in judging human nature, convincing others of their paranormal abilities. I'd have to say that for both psychic and believer there is a common thread, possibly it's shared experiences but I'd tend to wager its more psychological or physiological.

 

[Doreen]

Is it a good skill if one's self analysis results in declaring themselves to be psychic? If one is experiencing things others don't then wouldn't seeking a professional opinion be a wiser decision?

That depends. If it is working for you, why would you seek out a professional?
Should a cop who is great at reading liars in interrogations go to a professional if his colleagues are not as skilled?

But I think I understand. A psychic believes they have the skill to pull it off. IOW they have a skill in judging human nature, convincing others of their paranormal abilities.

That sounds like someone calling themselves a psychic, but not a psychic.

I'd have to say that for both psychic and believer there is a common thread, possibly it's shared experiences but I'd tend to wager its more psychological or physiological.

Yes, I assumed this was your position.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

If you're one of those folks who sees things others don't then why do you consider it psychic? Generally speaking, there are more who don't see then do. So why is it that those who do, think themselves either gifted or privileged? Despite criticism and ridicule the seer maintains their visions are part of some unusual talent they possess.

I'm not talking about phony psychics but of people who are adamant their endowments are genuine. It seems that this kind of behavior is accepted more than that of a hallucinating mental patient or a diagnosed schizophrenic. If your one of those two types then you have no chance of gaining the psychic label, you're nuts to the world.

The answer to the question is because the majority of people value how they feel over truth.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The answer to the question is because the majority of people value how they feel over truth.

People need to feel special or to stand out against their peers. What better way than to declare themselves psychic. It's borderline celebrity status. However, if you are seeing things others don't then you are most likely suffering from some mental issues.

Those issues are generally tolerated by society and psychics may be ridiculed but not tossed into an institution. The institutions contain the real psychics, people who's visions are either too numerous or psychotic in nature. It's your run-of-the-mill psychic times 10. It's quite possible that all seers hallucinate, a symptom of many mental illnesses, yet most never think they are afflicted and get checked out. It seems as if mild mental illness is accepted by society and severe is not.

 

[visceral_instinct]

It's probably that such a person's mind simply pays more attention to detail, or focuses on aspects of the environment that others don't.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

People need to feel special or to stand out against their peers. What better way than to declare themselves psychic. It's borderline celebrity status. However, if you are seeing things others don't then you are most likely suffering from some mental issues.

Yep. Although I wouldn't state that people who hallucinate at non-standard times are actually suffering from anything. I would be a good example of this. I have audio hallucinations (mostly in the form of music). They don't interfere with my life in any way and I can recognize them easily for what they are (hallucination). The reality is I probably have a mild form of schizophrenia; however, when I explained this to my phyisician, I was told not to worry about it if it's a non-issue for me. I am inclined to agree.

Those issues are generally tolerated by society and psychics may be ridiculed but not tossed into an institution. The institutions contain the real psychics, people who's visions are either too numerous or psychotic in nature. It's your run-of-the-mill psychic times 10. It's quite possible that all seers hallucinate, a symptom of many mental illnesses, yet most never think they are afflicted and get checked out. It seems as if mild mental illness is accepted by society and severe is not.

As long as a person isn't a detriment to themselves or others then they are free to be and believe weird things. Of course we should always be careful when giving people power. In general power should not be given to those whose beliefs clearly do not match reality. That's just begging for negative results.

 

[Doreen]

People need to feel special or to stand out against their peers. What better way than to declare themselves psychic. It's borderline celebrity status. However, if you are seeing things others don't then you are most likely suffering from some mental issues.

And here you are making a psychic claim. You are generalizing about the psychology of people most of whom you have not even met. You know their motives - not even just their thoughts.
I can assume you are correct about your own motives, but when generalizing about all these other psychics, I would need to see some evidence.

Those issues are generally tolerated by society and psychics may be ridiculed but not tossed into an institution. The institutions contain the real psychics, people who's visions are either too numerous or psychotic in nature. It's your run-of-the-mill psychic times 10. It's quite possible that all seers hallucinate, a symptom of many mental illnesses, yet most never think they are afflicted and get checked out. It seems as if mild mental illness is accepted by society and severe is not.

You don't understand what a mental illness is.

 

[Doreen]

As long as a person isn't a detriment to themselves or others then they are free to be and believe weird things. Of course we should always be careful when giving people power. In general power should not be given to those whose beliefs clearly do not match reality. That's just begging for negative results.

And yet we keep electing presidents who do this. Does this mean we believe in weird things like the idea that this the US is a democracy despite a two party system, the way money controls elections, the electoral college, the swinging door between industry and their own regulators in government and the power of the lobbying industry? It seems like most people are deluded about something very important. Much more important than if Glenda sees a ghost on her barn occasionally.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

And yet we keep electing presidents who do this.

Yes. This is a problem specific to the U.S. In all other countries, higher socio-economic standards equates to drastic drops in theism. The U.S. is the exception.

Does this mean we believe in weird things like the idea that this the US is a democracy despite a two party system, the way money controls elections, the electoral college, the swinging door between industry and their own regulators in government and the power of the lobbying industry? It seems like most people are deluded about something very important. Much more important than if Glenda sees a ghost on her barn occasionally.

I agree to an extent. Everyone's delusional about something; however, it is not always clear. My assertion is that power should not be given to people whose delusions are blatently obvious. Bush Jr. is a great example of the negative impact that can have.

 

[Doreen]

Yes. This is a problem specific to the U.S. In all other countries, higher socio-economic standards equates to drastic drops in theism. The U.S. is the exception.

Well, sure, they do that too. But their policies represent beliefs in things that do not exist. Reagan was certainly able to do this in a grand, Emperor has no clothes sort of way. But everyone since has had similar hallucination.

I agree to an extent. Everyone's delusional about something; however, it is not always clear. My assertion is that power should not be given to people whose delusions are blatently obvious. Bush Jr. is a great example of the negative impact that can have.

Unfortunately I think the delusions that are subtle and twisted in form enough to fool educated liberals are doing just as much damage. One of them is that 'their' presidents are significantly different.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Well, sure, they do that too. But their policies represent beliefs in things that do not exist. Reagan was certainly able to do this in a grand, Emperor has no clothes sort of way. But everyone since has had similar hallucination.

You mean delusion. The reality is that everyone is delusional about many things. The best we can do at the moment is weed out the low hanging fruit. You don't want a paranoid schizo running your country, thinking hes defending it against unicorns.

Unfortunately I think the delusions that are subtle and twisted in form enough to fool educated liberals are doing just as much damage. One of them is that 'their' presidents are significantly different.

Yep. That is a tough one.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

And here you are making a psychic claim.

You don't understand what a mental illness is.

Ooops....your turn. Doreen, all I can tell you is this....you don't know how wrong you are with that bit of psychic insight. All in fun, I don't mean anything untoward by it.

Crunchy Cat
I have audio hallucinations (mostly in the form of music). They don't interfere with my life in any way and I can recognize them easily for what they are (hallucination). The reality is I probably have a mild form of schizophrenia; however, when I explained this to my phyisician, I was told not to worry about it if it's a non-issue for me. I am inclined to agree.

That's exactly what I mean CC. At least you went and had it checked out. If everyone who experienced similar or related occurrences were like you then the psychic population would most likely be cut in half.

 

[Rav]

One thing is for sure. If psychic powers do exist, they are so subtle and unreliable that they aren't any more impressive than any other skills that anyone who isn't psychic might possess. Personally, I'd only find clear cut cases of truly impressive easily reproducible abilities that could win someone the Randi $1,000,000 paranormal challenge, or any of the other numerous rewards offered by various organizations, compelling.

History teaches us that every now and then, which turns out the be quite often these days with almost 7 billion people on the planet, someone with extraordinary talent in a particular discipline emerges as an example of what is possible. This seems not to be the case with psychic phenomena, likely because there is no such thing.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

........... someone with extraordinary talent in a particular discipline emerges as an example of what is possible. This seems not to be the case with psychic phenomena, likely because there is no such thing.

There's no talent involved if you're a mental case. I wonder how much of a role schizophrenics played in ancient times....do you think they were the so called seers and oracles of bygone eras? I don't think they would have been thought of as different than anyone else mentally. Not being able to separate one reality from another....did the description of those visions alone give them psychic status? Is it a talent?

 

[Doreen]

Ooops....your turn. Doreen, all I can tell you is this....you don't know how wrong you are with that bit of psychic insight. All in fun, I don't mean anything untoward by it.

I don't know what piece of psychic insight you are referring to. What you described was not a mental illness. I know, its the field I work in. In fact practicing psychiatrists and psychologist are less likely than they were 20 years ago to view religious and spiritual beliefs as symptoms.

If you are going to criticize psychics, it would be best not to make claims of your own which are precisely like psychic claims. If you are going to say they are mentally ill, than you should find out what constitutes a mental illness.

If your name relates to personal experience with mental illness, this does not mean you understand the catergory nor how it is applied by professionals.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I don't know what piece of psychic insight you are referring to.

Nothing serious, I was just referring to you saying I didn't understand what a mental illness was right after telling me I made a psychic claim. How you would know that may be something only a psychic would claim, that's all.

If your name relates to personal experience with mental illness, this does not mean you understand the catergory nor how it is applied by professionals.

Well you might want to think about that a little longer. What would make you think I was or am a patient? My User ID? PsycoticEpisode was shorter than Neuropsychopharmacologist. You're not going psychic on me again are you?

There are varying degrees of mental illness and that in itself covers a very wide spectrum. Everything from a deep psychosis to a mild perturbation. Minor or major, these are mental illnesses whether you care to call them that or not.

Admittedly there are other ways to replicate symptoms of a mental illness, in particular the hallucinatory. Now I didn't come right out and say all psychics are mentally ill, I only implied. Just claiming to possess psychic ability, an unproven enterprise, is in itself borderline.

 

[Doreen]

Nothing serious, I was just referring to you saying I didn't understand what a mental illness was right after telling me I made a psychic claim. How you would know that may be something only a psychic would claim, that's all.

I noted the way you were using it. I was responding to your use of the term, not making any claims about what was or was not in your mind. I suppose you could have correct knowledge about it, but for some reason you communicated incorrectly about. I see below this was not the case, unless for some reason you are choosing to use the term in ways you think are incorrect.

Well you might want to think about that a little longer. What would make you think I was or am a patient? My User ID? PsycoticEpisode was shorter than Neuropsychopharmacologist. You're not going psychic on me again are you?

Did you read the word 'if' at the beginning of that sentence?

There are varying degrees of mental illness and that in itself covers a very wide spectrum. Everything from a deep psychosis to a mild perturbation.

No this is incorrect. If you say someone has a mental illness you are not referring to something like a mild perturbation. Absolutely healthy people can be perturbed, even severely, and this in no way indicates mental illness.

Minor or major, these are mental illnesses whether you care to call them that or not.

I am not sure what 'these' refers to, but what you described earlier would not qualify as a mental illness. Someone claiming to be psychic would not get a diagnosis of having some mental illness. It would take a lot more than that. And someone making that claim could very likely get a nice clean bill of health from most psychiatrists or psychologists. And the army sure as shit would not section 8 you. You would not suddenly quailfy for SSI benefits and if that is all you present to a psychiatrist, no prescriptions would be suggested. I can't think of a single category of mental health professional or organization that would consider someone mentall ill for thinking they are a psychic or for thinking they have had psychic experiences.

Admittedly there are other ways to replicate symptoms of a mental illness, in particular the hallucinatory. Now I didn't come right out and say all psychics are mentally ill, I only implied. Just claiming to possess psychic ability, an unproven enterprise, is in itself borderline.

OK. Well, I disagree with the implication. And no, it is not borderline. To define someone as having a mental illness pretty much every competent professional would need to see a significant interference with every day life: relationships, work, paying bills, communication, navigation of society. Again, I do not think you are using the term correctly.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

No this is incorrect. If you say someone has a mental illness you are not referring to something like a mild perturbation. Absolutely healthy people can be perturbed, even severely, and this in no way indicates mental illness.

This is where we disagree. Yes people can be healthy physically. Mild perturbations also indicate distress. If I develop hives on otherwise normal skin, it is an illness in the broadest sense of the term. It's something that upsets the status quo, which in this case is skin not adversely affected. Mental health is no different.