Secular Fanaticism?

[lightgigantic]

Students show support for Pope after protests


University students poured into Vatican City overnight to show their support for Pope Benedict, after student protests forced him to cancel a speech at Rome's top public college.

The pontiff decided not to deliver an address at La Sapienza University, scheduled for later today, after protests by a small but vociferous group of students and faculty members.

Some occupied part of the campus to demand he stay away.

Many Italians condemned the protests, saying they smacked of censorship. Politicians and pundits used words like "shame" and "humiliation" to describe the national mood.

The Pope smiled a welcome to university students who showed up at his general audience in Vatican City.

As he entered the audience hall, they shouted "Freedom!" in reference to his right to free speech.

One banner held by students read, "If the Pope won't come to La Sapienza, La Sapienza will come to the Pope."

The vicar of Rome, Cardinal Camillo Ruini, invited Romans to show their support for the Pope by coming to St Peter's Square on Sunday for his weekly prayer.

Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, told the university rector the visit had been cancelled because it lacked "prerequisites for a dignified and tranquil welcome."

Since his election in 2005, the conservative Pontiff has fought what he sees as efforts to restrict the voice of the Church in the public sphere, particularly in Europe.

But the public stance he has taken on issues ranging from abortion and gay marriage to euthanasia have led critics in Italy to accuse him of meddling in politics.

The protesters say if the Pope wanted to speak, he could do so from the Vatican.

Italian President Giorgio Napolitano wrote to the Pope condemning "demonstrations of intolerance".

The episode drew out allies of all stripes who condemned the students' actions, ranging from Rome's chief rabbi to outspoken Church critic Dario Fo, a Nobel Prize winning writer.

Rome's chief rabbi Riccardo Di Segni says he has invited the Pope to speak at his synagogue.

"Being secular does not mean closing your ears when someone who is religiously inspired speaks," he said.

Seems we can notch this up to the ethics of secularism not necessarily encompassing broadness or freedom of thought.

 

[spidergoat]

The pope thinks condoms are worse than AIDS. Fuck him.

 

[shichimenshyo]

The pope thinks condoms are worse than AIDS. Fuck him.

I heard that condoms give you AIDS like 1,000% of the time.

 

[lightgigantic]

The pope thinks condoms are worse than AIDS. Fuck him.

you find topics of abstinence reprehensible?

 

[spidergoat]

Yes, abstinence talk to the exclusion of proper sexual education kills people.

 

[lightgigantic]

Yes, abstinence talk to the exclusion of proper sexual education kills people.

I would have thought proper sexual education would be an integral part of teaching abstinence ....

 

[spidergoat]

...can [we] notch this up to the ethics of secularism not necessarily encompassing broadness or freedom of thought?

No. I support freedom of thought and religion, but in this case he was supposed to speak at an institution of learning, the opposite of religious dogma and superstition.

 

[lightgigantic]

...can [we] notch this up to the ethics of secularism not necessarily encompassing broadness or freedom of thought?

No. I support freedom of thought and religion, but in this case he was supposed to speak at an institution of learning, the opposite of religious dogma and superstition.

and the irony is that they dogmatically refused to let him speak
:shrug:

 

[spidergoat]

I would have thought proper sexual education would be an integral part of teaching abstinence ....

It isn't. In practice, it's an "alternative" to sexual education. The pope feels that distributing condoms and telling them how to use them encourages sex.

 

[spidergoat]

and the irony is that they dogmatically refused to let him speak
:shrug:

It's a rational decision.

 

[lightgigantic]

It isn't. In practice, it's an "alternative" to sexual education. The pope feels that distributing condoms and telling them how to use them encourages sex.

and you feel that distributing condoms and telling people how to use them doesn't - seems like an ideological difference to me
:shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

It's a rational decision.

amongst persons possessed of the same dogmatic views perhaps
The pope even drew allies amongst famous intellectual critics of the church.
When the pope starts drawing support from his ideological critics, it tends to indicate something.

 

[spidergoat]

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, he's probably a nice guy. But his ideas are incompatible with an institution of learning.

 

[lightgigantic]

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, he's probably a nice guy. But his ideas are incompatible with an institution of learning.

that's your ideology speaking buddy
once you up the ante to censorship you've pulled out the machete on your sacred cow of secularist ideals

 

[Cris]

lg,

Seems we can notch this up to the ethics of secularism not necessarily encompassing broadness or freedom of thought.

Or at last a few having the courage to stand up to 2000 years of unsolicited Christian preaching and propaganda. This is a healthy event, and note that most rebelions are rarely bloodless.

To change the minds of the irrational majority is hardly going to be easy.

 

[spidergoat]

I wouldn't censor his writings or anything like that, but the university doesn't have an obligation to the Pope. What if it were Louis Farrakhan instead, or Jerry Falwell?

 

[lightgigantic]

lg,

Or at last a few having the courage to stand up to 2000 years of unsolicited Christian preaching and propaganda.

if secularist ideals (like freedom of speech for example) form a healthy portion of this agenda, I guess more attention is required

This is a healthy event,

so in other words you have no problem with the censorship of views that are divergent or challenging to your own values?

and note that most rebelions are rarely bloodless.

yes
most and rarely

To change the minds of the irrational majority is hardly going to be easy.

especially coming from persons who censor on the basis of ideology while promulgating secularist idealism

 

[Tiassa]

Papal stones

once you up the ante to censorship you've pulled out the machete on your sacred cow of secularist ideals

Would you give the Devil a pulpit?

It's always a curious proposition to me that a "small but vociferous group" can "force" anything.

Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, told the university rector the visit had been cancelled because it lacked "prerequisites for a dignified and tranquil welcome."

(ABC.net.au)

Ah, I see. In other words, the Church didn't have the balls to face up to controversy in public. Oh, poor Pope Benedict. "Censored" because he couldn't make a speech without people protesting. "Forced" into "silence" because dissenters wouldn't be silent.

Secular fanaticism? O-tay!

Seems we can notch this up to the ethics of secularism not necessarily encompassing broadness or freedom of thought.

In other words, it's somehow the fault of the protesters that the Pope is a coward?

 

[lightgigantic]

Would you give the Devil a pulpit?

If I was a secularist, yes

It's always a curious proposition to me that a "small but vociferous group" can "force" anything.

vehement rage can work miracles

Ah, I see. In other words, the Church didn't have the balls to face up to controversy in public. Oh, poor Pope Benedict. "Censored" because he couldn't make a speech without people protesting. "Forced" into "silence" because dissenters wouldn't be silent.

As shocking as it may sound, the regular antics of sciforums doesn't constitute the medium of intelligent discourse in the academic world.

Secular fanaticism? O-tay!

if a small portion of a (secular) community go out of their way to stop a person speaking (to the disdain of the greater community), what else can you call it?

A group of professors, mainly from the sciences, wrote to the university rector late last year to object to the pope's visit, depicting Benedict as a religious figure opposed to science. On the grounds of separating secular and non-secular, they disapproved of him speaking at a public university.

The rector had given students a designated space where they could protest during the pope's visit.

BTW - the designated space wasn't the entire campus

In other words, it's somehow the fault of the protesters that the Pope is a coward?

I take it you get a kick out of Oprah Winfrey?

 

[lightgigantic]

I wouldn't censor his writings or anything like that, but the university doesn't have an obligation to the Pope. What if it were Louis Farrakhan instead, or Jerry Falwell?

A group of professors, mainly from the sciences, wrote to the university rector late last year to object to the pope's visit, depicting Benedict as a religious figure opposed to science. On the grounds of separating secular and non-secular, they disapproved of him speaking at a public university.

The rector had given students a designated space where they could protest during the pope's visit.

"Since there were no longer the conditions for a dignified and calm welcome, thanks to the initiative of a decidedly minority group of professors and students, it was judged opportune to skip the planned visit to remove any pretext for demonstrations which would have ended up being unpleasant for all," said Bertone in a letter to the university rector, Renato Guarini.

Its not like the pope was busting down their door to speak
He was invited
It's not that (the minority of) persons critical of him were forbidden to protest
They took hold of the university to prevent him speak

and all in the name of secularism

:shrug: