Scripture implies undiscovered science

Q

Quigly

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Registered Senior Member
I am not sure if that is the best title or not, but I was reading this article and it was talking about scientific implications in the bible that weren't "rediscovered" until years later. Tell me your thoughts on this.
Here are a couple sitings.
Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
(Earth is round)
Ecc. 1:6-7
6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. 7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea [is] not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. ( Hydrological cycle)
www.blueletterbible.org

There are more, but I do not have the article with me. What does this imply about science back then? Anything? Does anybody have any other old scientific references that were discredited for 100's to 1000's of years and later rediscovered as true?
 
Originally posted by Quigly
Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
(Earth is round)
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M*W: Still sounds flat to me. He describes it as a "tent," so that would mean a flat, circular Earth covered like a tent.
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Ecc. 1:6-7
6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. 7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea [is] not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. ( Hydrological cycle)
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M*W: Sounds like the rivers just run off the flat Earth.
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Flat earth? Take it up with Russell

Myth of the Flat Earth, by Jeffrey Burton Russell.

The sad thing, though, is if Russell is correct, he still hasn't accounted for the fact that even Christians teach that flat-earth was a general superstition of medieval Europe. What gets me is that his theory is that the flat-earth myth is a conspiracy against Christians, and it seems to me that in a Judeo-Christian influenced society such as Europe and the US, where the myth would have been most prevalent .... That's one powerful conspiracy.
 
Quigly:

It's all pretty vague, don't you think?

It is quite easy to select out an isolated verse or two and make it mean whatever you like. It's all in the interpretation.

If the writers really wanted to explain scientific concepts, don't you think they would have done so in more specific detail?
 
Originally posted by James R
Quigly: If the writers really wanted to explain scientific concepts, don't you think they would have done so in more specific detail?
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There would have been no need, as people were inclined to believe the authority of scriptures.
I have asked alot of everyday people how they think the universe came into being, most use the big-bang theory as thier answer. But none could really explain the theory itself. Hence they are satisfied. Same applies.
The science of cosmology is explain in more specific detail in the Bhagavat Purana, a vedic literature for those who have enquiring minds.

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Originally posted by Quigly
I am not sure if that is the best title or not, but I was reading this article and it was talking about scientific implications in the bible that weren't "rediscovered" until years later. Tell me your thoughts on this.
Here are a couple sitings.
Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: (Earth is round)
Ecc. 1:6-7
6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. 7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea [is] not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. ( Hydrological cycle)www.blueletterbible.org

There are more, but I do not have the article with me. What does this imply about science back then? Anything? Does anybody have any other old scientific references that were discredited for 100's to 1000's of years and later rediscovered as true?
Click to expand...

I just came across an interesting website that discussed "the wind and the water" as being part of Chi, Prana or ether. Actually, it was discussing Feng Shui, when I remembered your post about the wind and rivers. This Chi energy supposedly lives in all of us for all time. This also concurs with what I believe about us being energy beings (or God dwelling in us). I think calling this the "hydrological cycle" is not what it really means. That would be too simple. I think it means something more spiritual than that--the life force--God. Good post, Quigly. Your post enlightened me!
 
It's all pretty vague, don't you think?
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I see your point. It doesn't really provide much further analysis upon it. I guess the whole point of the thread was the fact that there is most definately scientific discoveries that have been either A. Lost B. Destroyed C. Hidden or D. buried that at a later date have been rehashed. Lets say I discovered some great scientific advancement and then somebody destroyed either me or the advancement for whatever reason, and 100 yrs later somebody rediscovered it. I was thinking about this because of the article I read regarding the scriptures. I go on to look at the scripture and ponder these things. Like this one:

Job 41:1-34 I will just site it because it is a lot to put in here
www.blueletterbible.com to view the scripture
Basically it is God reprimanding Job, but he talks about a Fire Breathing Dragon being a live at the same time as man. This is something that I don't believe science has discovered in archaelogical findings. Fire breathing dragons has been around in virtually ever culture of the world in early history to modern.
I just came across an interesting website that discussed "the wind and the water" as being part of Chi, Prana or ether. Actually, it was discussing Feng Shui, when I remembered your post about the wind and rivers. This Chi energy supposedly lives in all of us for all time. This also concurs with what I believe about us being energy beings (or God dwelling in us). I think calling this the "hydrological cycle" is not what it really means. That would be too simple. I think it means something more spiritual than that--the life force--God. Good post, Quigly. Your post enlightened me!
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Thanks! I tend to lean more toward christian beliefs, but still, I can see how spiritual life can be like that river that goes out and then returns back...
 
Originally posted by Quigly
Thanks! I tend to lean more toward christian beliefs, but still, I can see how spiritual life can be like that river that goes out and then returns back...
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Ultimately, our One spirit will always prevail over the religious. As we can obviously see at sciforums, there is just too much dissention and bickering over religious matters, when what we're all doing is pushing the spiritual away! We've become the religious terrorists we argue about! We argue about Bible scripture--Jews see it one way, Christians see it another, spiritualist see it in yet another way. I believe that somewhere there is a point of congruence, but then that would take the One spirit to show it to each of us. I, for one, admit that I am guilty for bashing Christians. This is not my normal demeanor. I'm a believer in the One Spirit of God. I certainly haven't acted like it, though. We may not see eye to eye on religious beliefs, but we still have this interconnectedness that we shun! This goes against my true beliefs. We're all children of the same Creator. Had you not posted your original post about the wind and the rivers, I would not have been able to relate to it when I was reading about the orgone theory. The whole world is interconnected, just because we believe in different aspects, they ultimately all boil down to One. We've all made it clear where each of us stands in our beliefs. I think we need to tone down our personal terrorism of each other. That is self-defeating and certainly not the pathway of the Spirit, so I'll be the first to lay down my armor.
 
Reply to Topic

Medicine person:

I have often seen a quote from Aristotle on this forum, and a great quote it is: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Astute observation by one with an educated mind, I would say. Sadly there is another side to that old coin. "It is the mark of a man disinclined to think, to accept thoughts without entertaining them."


Please know that I understand some of your oh-so-obvious disdain for "Christian(s)." But, you know I suppose there are worse things to be than pushy, insulting Christians; nonetheless, some are exactly that. For example, I hate it when someone stops me on the street and asks if I "know Jesus."

Recently, a neighbor thrust a finger towards my face and asked rather accusingly, I thought. "Have you been born again?" I was a bit startled. To me, she sounded like she had been shot out a a canon, (metophorically speaking), to catch me off guard, or something like that.

I have had more than my share of head-on experiences with folks who seem more prepared to strike than to witness. Such an approach is rather moronic to those who do not consider a different opinion a threat. Yet to be fair, though that on-slaught kind of attitude may not tell me the essence of their religion, or doctrinal conclusion are necessarily or entirely wrong, but it does tell me that the messenger could probably use some work. Sure glad I am not the one accountable for doing that work, because I have a lot of "t's" to cross with those who would hurt the least of us.

Perhaps you are simply witty by nature. You are right of course about not throwing stones. One preacher says the another does not know God, and another, (who often even admits that he does not believe in any god, or was sick of church by age ten), hurls back insults, which the first attributes to Satan, and the second attributes attributes to ignorance. None of this sounds particularly intelligent to me, but who says we have to be intelligent. This is up to each of us, I heard someone say.
 
Re: Reply to Topic

Originally posted by P. M. Thorne
Medicine person:

I have often seen a quote from Aristotle on this forum, and a great quote it is: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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M*W: For the record, it's Medicine*Woman. I like this quote myself. I wish Christians would follow this motto.

Astute observation by one with an educated mind, I would say. Sadly there is another side to that old coin. "It is the mark of a man disinclined to think, to accept thoughts without entertaining them."
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M*W: Another appropo quote. This is what Christians do.
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Please know that I understand some of your oh-so-obvious disdain for "Christian(s)." But, you know I suppose there are worse things to be than pushy, insulting Christians; nonetheless, some are exactly that. For example, I hate it when someone stops me on the street and asks if I "know Jesus."
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M*W: My problem is not so much with pushy Christians. My problem with them is they believe in a myth. Not only that, they believe this myth will ensure them a place in heaven and eternal life! It' just ain't gonna happen.
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Recently, a neighbor thrust a finger towards my face and asked rather accusingly, I thought. "Have you been born again?" I was a bit startled. To me, she sounded like she had been shot out a a canon, (metophorically speaking), to catch me off guard, or something like that.
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M*W: I would be offended if someone asked me this. Yes, I know Jesus. Yes, I was a Christian. No, I am not a Christian anymore. This rudeness by Christians is because they're brainwashed and they try to scorch the Earth saving everyone in their path. But when we descend upon this Earth, that is proof we're already "saved." There is no such thing as death of the spirit. The spirit in us is the One Spirit of God and it is eternal and a gift from our Creator. "Born again" simply means coming back once again in another incarnation of the One Spirit of God. It really angers me when someone who doesn't know me says that I don't know Jesus! I probably know Jesus better than every Christian out there. If Jesus was a real person, which I tend to think he was, if he could take a look at Christians, he would say they are fools and they are not following him at all!
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I have had more than my share of head-on experiences with folks who seem more prepared to strike than to witness. Such an approach is rather moronic to those who do not consider a different opinion a threat. Yet to be fair, though that on-slaught kind of attitude may not tell me the essence of their religion, or doctrinal conclusion are necessarily or entirely wrong, but it does tell me that the messenger could probably use some work. Sure glad I am not the one accountable for doing that work, because I have a lot of "t's" to cross with those who would hurt the least of us.
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M*W: I choose not to be a Christian anymore. I don't believe Jesus died on the cross, and certainly not for anyone's sins. The followers of Jesus are really the followers of Paul and his cohorts. Jesus was a Rabbi who taught his Jewish followers to be good Jews and go to the temple. That was all. He is just a dead rabbi. He died for no one.
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Perhaps you are simply witty by nature. You are right of course about not throwing stones. One preacher says the another does not know God, and another, (who often even admits that he does not believe in any god, or was sick of church by age ten), hurls back insults, which the first attributes to Satan, and the second attributes attributes to ignorance. None of this sounds particularly intelligent to me, but who says we have to be intelligent. This is up to each of us, I heard someone say.
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M*W: I enjoy this website. It is a scientifically oriented site and everything non-Christian is fascinating. Unfortunately, the Christians just write the same old, same old thing. I choose not to look at Christianity as a religion but a cult because its members repeat the same thing like a zombie chant. I want to learn, but I also hope to teach. Unfortunately, this forum has become a battle between the Christians and Muslims, and I choose not to participate in that issue because the Qur'an is more truthful than the Bible and I have stated this previously. So the scientific part of this website has failed. It's Christians vs. the entire universe, and they're not gonna win. The Christians are not saying anything novel or scientific because they don't have anything new to say whereas I'm happy to admit I'm an antichrist. I made this educated decision based on what I have learned about Christianity, and I want no part of it.
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Re: Re: Scripture implies undiscovered science

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
I just came across an interesting website that discussed "the wind and the water" as being part of Chi, Prana or ether. Actually, it was discussing Feng Shui, when I remembered your post about the wind and rivers. This Chi energy supposedly lives in all of us for all time. This also concurs with what I believe about us being energy beings (or God dwelling in us). I think calling this the "hydrological cycle" is not what it really means. That would be too simple. I think it means something more spiritual than that--the life force--God. Good post, Quigly. Your post enlightened me!
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It takes years of practice to harness your chi and get it to flow at will. I don't think God could be harnessed by any amount of practice. I have often wondered whether you aren't just confusing our natural "spirituality"/energy with "God". That we have a spiritual nature does not automatically make us gods. I always find it strange how you embrace one half of religion (us) while rejecting the other half (God).
 
Re: Re: Re: Scripture implies undiscovered science

Originally posted by Jenyar
It takes years of practice to harness your chi and get it to flow at will. I don't think God could be harnessed by any amount of practice. I have often wondered whether you aren't just confusing our natural "spirituality"/energy with "God". That we have a spiritual nature does not automatically make us gods. I always find it strange how you embrace one half of religion (us) while rejecting the other half (God).
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As usual, Jenyar, you are full of shit. How would you know anything about chi? I'm sorry for you that God is out of your reach. God is not out of my reach. God IS our natural spiritual energy. You have misquoted me repeatedly on this forum. I have always said there is only one God--not many gods. I don't embrace ANY religion and I don't reject ANY part of God. It is YOU who reject the One Spirit of God dwelling in you as you are part of the one body of the human race. Just because you don't understand what I am saying, doesn't mean that I am wrong in my beliefs. You're the one who's been brainwashed and not I anymore.
 
Reply to Topic

Medicine*Woman:

You mentioned that you want to teach others to believe as you do, and that one day when we all reach perfection everyone will know that your understanding is the right one. There is not much unique here, is there?

I wonder, are you prepared to admit that you are every bit as confrontational as those you call Christians, and that you are assuming you are one who truly knows, and that this is just as devisive as any one of us assuming he/she truly knows. You say you are a convert . . . from Christianity, and also like many of them, the main thrust of your comments/arguement is more against something than for anything?

Not that you need to explain yourself to me. What I believe does not matter to you. You matter though, and I hate to see anyone so angry when there is really no need. You are hurting people. Can you not see that?

Ask almost any converts what made them change, and they would be more than happy to tell us, to convince us, and to make disciples of us. Did I get that right?

You are not me, of course, and we may not agree on much, but you seem so familiar with the faults of Christianity -overall. (?) You said in one email that I did not see until after, that you were no longer going to bash Christians. That was short-lived.

I have been known to be rather effective (in hurting or hindering someone) whether on the attack or in defense, but who gives a crap? There is nothing to win here. There is no one to impress, and too many people are hurting already.

Whatever defies my sense of truth will not "get me." And, surely you know that it will not get you either. It is but an ugly-looking false threat, with no real teeth, yet it fools a lot of people . . . . Can you agree?
 
Re: Reply to Topic

Originally posted by P. M. Thorne
Medicine*Woman:

You mentioned that you want to teach others to believe as you do, and that one day when we all reach perfection everyone will know that your understanding is the right one. There is not much unique here, is there?
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M*W: Yes, I stated that I want to teach others about the infinite spirit of God as we evolve toward the Homo spiritus.
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I wonder, are you prepared to admit that you are every bit as confrontational as those you call Christians, and that you are assuming you are one who truly knows, and that this is just as devisive as any one of us assuming he/she truly knows.
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M*W: Yes, I have been confrontational, and I don't like confrontation. I left the forum for a while, but this is where I feel most effective. It's a two-way street, you know. Of course I assume that I know the answers, but the Xians believe that they have all the answers, too. I don't see this particular forum saving any souls. My problem with Xians on this forum is that they offer nothing novel or scientific.
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You say you are a convert . . . from Christianity, and also like many of them, the main thrust of your comments/arguement is more against something than for anything?
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M*W: I was raised agnostic all the while searching for a higher power. I converted to Catholicism and taught catechism for many years. I made pilgrimages to holy shrines in Europe. My last pilgrimage was to The Vatican. It was in St. Peter's that I was de-converted. I am no longer Xian from what I've experienced in life, but from what I've learned about Xianity, I've become antixian. My deconversion was a personal, conscious event. No other person had any influence on this change. I do not regret giving up xianity.
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Not that you need to explain yourself to me. What I believe does not matter to you. You matter though, and I hate to see anyone so angry when there is really no need. You are hurting people. Can you not see that?
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M*W: I don't want to hurt anyone. That is not my endeavor. The people who may seem to be hurting, xians, is their problem, not mine. Are they THAT close-minded that they would hurt because of what I've said? That's why I say xianity is an addiction. Xians are co-dependent. I aim to bring the truth, but the truth "hurts" xians. The truth is the weapon, not me.
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Ask almost any converts what made them change, and they would be more than happy to tell us, to convince us, and to make disciples of us. Did I get that right?
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M*W: I don't know the answer to this, because I don't know many deconverts. Xians have a hard time breaking away from something they've been brainwashed to believe. I don't want to make disciples of anyone, because I don't believe in organized religion. The One Spirit of God is something you would personally know within your own soul. For xians to be "hurt" by me tells me that they are not all that committed to xianity in the first place.
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You are not me, of course, and we may not agree on much, but you seem so familiar with the faults of Christianity-overall.(?) You said in one email that I did not see until after, that you were no longer going to bash Christians. That was short-lived.
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M*W: Yes, I did say that. Then I posted a non-bashing post and several xians came back bashing me. This forum is a hopeless venue to recruit disciples if that is what they are thinking. I just hope they open up to the One Spirit of God whether they believe me or not.
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I have been known to be rather effective (in hurting or hindering someone) whether on the attack or in defense, but who gives a crap? There is nothing to win here. There is no one to impress, and too many people are hurting already.
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M*W: It's xianity that is hurting them! Can't you see that?
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Whatever defies my sense of truth will not "get me." And, surely you know that it will not get you either. It is but an ugly-looking false threat, with no real teeth, yet it fools a lot of people . . . . Can you agree?
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M*W: Yes you are right, but that "ugly-looking false threat" is called xianity.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Scripture implies undiscovered science

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
As usual, Jenyar, you are full of shit. How would you know anything about chi?
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I've been doing martial arts for about 8 years, including two years of tai chi and Qigong.

I'm sorry for you that God is out of your reach. God is not out of my reach. God IS our natural spiritual energy. You have misquoted me repeatedly on this forum. I have always said there is only one God--not many gods. I don't embrace ANY religion and I don't reject ANY part of God. It is YOU who reject the One Spirit of God dwelling in you as you are part of the one body of the human race. Just because you don't understand what I am saying, doesn't mean that I am wrong in my beliefs. You're the one who's been brainwashed and not I anymore.
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It's not my intention to misquote you or to presume you are alienated from the God I believe in. But I have to point out when you do deviate from Him.

I do not reject God, His Spirit or His Anointed. But you repeatedly say that we are God, that He has no existence outside us. Is that true or have I misunderstood you?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scripture implies undiscovered science

Originally posted by Jenyar
I've been doing martial arts for about 8 years, including two years of tai chi and Qigong.

It's not my intention to misquote you or to presume you are alienated from the God I believe in. But I have to point out when you do deviate from Him.

I do not reject God, His Spirit or His Anointed. But you repeatedly say that we are God, that He has no existence outside us. Is that true or have I misunderstood you?
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But you HAVE presumed I am "alienated from the God" YOU believe in! You have made it clear that the God you perceive cannot possibly be the God of anyone else! I have NEVER stated that God has no existence outside of us. You have misunderstood and misquoted everything I have said.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scripture implies undiscovered science

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
But you HAVE presumed I am "alienated from the God" YOU believe in! You have made it clear that the God you perceive cannot possibly be the God of anyone else! I have NEVER stated that God has no existence outside of us. You have misunderstood and misquoted everything I have said.
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Then tell me what is the difference between your own personal spirituality, and the God who is not you.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scripture implies undiscovered science

Originally posted by Jenyar
Then tell me what is the difference between your own personal spirituality, and the God who is not you.
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I do NOT claim that I have "my own personal spirituality." The One Spirit of God dwells within all of us, even in those who don't know, understand, or accept it. In those, the One Spirit of God lies dormant, perhaps, or in a vacuous state. This does NOT mean that evil dwells within these individuals, it just means that where the positive force of Godly energy is absent, there is nothingness.

The human race is the vessel containing the One Spirit of God. However, there may be those who adamantly reject this belief as you do. That's okay, it's just that you don't have the correct understanding of it, nevertheless, the One Spirit of God dwells within you, too.

I do not profess that this is my own "god." That would be quite silly. God is the God of All. God is One. God is POSITIVE energy. I can tell you about my belief in the One Spirit of God, but I cannot describe any god who is not me... unless, of course, you mean like a god like Zeus or Eros or Brad Pitt.

The God of One Spirit that dwells in me, dwells in you. One and the same. I would even say that this same God dwells in Atheists, Agnostics, saints, murderers, and lesser gods if there are any. This is the same God that dwelt in Jesus.

Because the human race is the vehicle to carry God's Spirit across the face of the earth, we have godly attributes. Some more than others, some less. It's a constant balance between + and - forces of energy, ever-changing, ever-moving, ever-living.

This confusion may be in the name. This pure positive energy that I see as "God" really doesn't have a name. We know it as "God," but that's not the important thing. The important thing is knowing that "God" lives in us. The RCC has a little prayer at the end of the Eucharist that says "Through him, with him, and in him, in unity with the holy spirit, ONE GOD, forever and ever, Amen." This is what we share. This refers to us and the spirit of God in us.

Although I'm not xian any longer, there are some things that have been taken out of context. These things are universal beliefs but reinterpreted by the masses to suit themselves. Maybe I see things differently, but that doesn't mean they're wrong or evil. I just see them in a spiritual context.

I don't own the One Spirit of God, but I do have a small part of it on loan as you do, too. The whole human race together, with their own small portion of the One Spirit of God (whatever they call it), binds us together in One Body-One Spirit. That's the way it SHOULD be anyway. I believe this is what Jesus was trying to teach. I decided to follow what Jesus taught and not what his followers taught. But, no, I'm definitely NOT a xian.

When I was there in St. Peter's, and felt this overwhelming sensation that xianity was evil, I believe I got to know Jesus better. This is when I learned that the "kingdom of God is within."

I don't know if this answers your questions. I tend to think you're going to oppose anything I say. That's okay. The manifestation of the One Spirit of God occurs differently with everyone. I think you're on the right track, but you ran into a cross and derailed like a lot of people do. Get back on track and bypass the stop at Calvary. Soon you will reach the "kingdom of God" within.
 
Maybe the Catholic and the Protestant experience differ more than I thought. I've never been to St. Paul's, so I would like to know what you found so evil.

But I do agree with you. To be more accurate, I agree with about half of what you say. I'm more concerned about the other half. The half of God that has a Will and a personality. God makes choices and decisions, He is for some things and against som things. Some things are holy and acceptable to Him, and other things He rejects.

The God of One Spirit that dwells in me, dwells in you. One and the same. I would even say that this same God dwells in Atheists, Agnostics, saints, murderers, and lesser gods if there are any. This is the same God that dwelt in Jesus.
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This sounds as if He is indiscriminate - as if God has no choice where He dwells or not.

If anybody can enter into God's presence, and if everybody is acceptable to Him whether they acknowledge His share in their life or not, then what do you think will happen if the earth is destroyed, and our earth-suits as you call it, have no place to inhabit anymore?
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Maybe the Catholic and the Protestant experience differ more than I thought. I've never been to St. Paul's, so I would like to know what you found so evil.
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M*W: They do differ quite a bit. Protestant sects are more filtered down to nothingness than is the Catholic Church. It's almost as if Protestants are afraid to make the same commitment as Catholics. In that, there are more Catholic possessions than xian. It was St. Peter's in Rome, not St. Paul's, where I felt an omenous evil of death everywhere--a darkness and foreboding; the worship of idols and icons; frescoes of evil-looking angels; everything I saw was not a representation of Christ but of Satan, or artistry trying to cover-up Satan to be more correct. A darkness loomed in the air. The Sistine Chapel was more upbeat. There, I got the feeling that Man was one with God. Humans are One with God and All creation. The dungeon where Peter and Paul were killed, just outside the Vatican as I recall, in a place formerly called "Nero's Circus," was dark and eerie. It made me really think about why, if they were saints, would they be beheaded and crucified right here for their beliefs if their beliefs were true. It made me really wonder about the legitimacy of xianity. The whole environment was evilish. The steps at St. John Lateran (as I recall), Jesus was supposed to have scaled those steps. People crawled up the steps on their knees. No one knew how the steps got to Rome, but if Jesus scaled them, I'd say he'd been there and rejected what he saw. Of course, the beautiful frescoes didn't appear until the 1400-1500s. If Jesus did travel to Rome, why didn't he stay there? And what was Avignon all about? I've been there several times. There's just too much discrepancy about Jesus being associated with xians. I get the picture that he wanted no part of it.
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But I do agree with you. To be more accurate, I agree with about half of what you say. I'm more concerned about the other half. The half of God that has a Will and a personality. God makes choices and decisions, He is for some things and against som things. Some things are holy and acceptable to Him, and other things He rejects.
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M*W: I don't see our Creator as having a "will" nor a "personality." Those attributions are what "WE" have given it. The God I know and understand cannot make choices. The only choice is to be or not to be. God cannot make decisions. God cannot do anything except weigh the positive with the negative as in an electrical force. Holy is another word used for "positive." Unholy would be "negative." That is all God really comprehends--the alpha and the omega.
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This sounds as if He is indiscriminate - as if God has no choice where He dwells or not.
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M*W: It's not God's choice, it is our choice. We are the ones who decide where God dwells.
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If anybody can enter into God's presence, and if everybody is acceptable to Him whether they acknowledge His share in their life or not, then what do you think will happen if the earth is destroyed, and our earth-suits as you call it, have no place to inhabit anymore?
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M*W: First, I don't believe the Earth will ever be destroyed. It may change as we know it, but it will never pass away. That's God's promise. God will always be positive energy, and that will never go away. Everyone can "enter" into God's presence. It's their choice. God doesn't discriminate at all. People are in control if they choose to be filled with positive energy, no energy, or negative energy. God leaves it up to the container (the ARK) the individual to carry the degree of energy the individual wants. It's not a judgmental thing. Only humans judge. God does not judge.

If there ever does come a time when the Earth doesn't exist anymore, that wouldn't be a problem. The One Spirit of God that is within the human race and all creation would just simply exist as the One Spirit of God. This energy wouldn't die. It never dies. There may be a time while we are living totally in the spirit--no wars, no matter, no need for food, clothing, nothingness, only pure positive energy. I can see that happening, but we would still exist, only without the need of an Earthsuit. This would be the ideal.
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