Scientists Deem Creation to Be the Most Rational Explanation of Universe

[SnakeLord]

Woody: And you never, even once, put Jesus to the test by asking or seeking.

Why would I do such a thing? Woody, have you ever asked for or sought Allah? If the being doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. That's how it goes.

Should you expect him to open up to you? No. He does not go where he is not wanted.

Let's put this in perspective:

You've never seen your father, and indeed believe he isn't alive - due to evidence suggesting such a thing. As a result you live your life with the understanding that your father is not alive - and thus there is nobody to seek. At this stage the only solution would come from your father visiting you and saying: "hey son, I'm not dead".

There might be many people telling you your father is alive, but when you ask how they know, what evidence they have, and indeed show them your evidence, they just ignore it, dismiss it and claim they're right merely because they say they're right. In your hands you have your fathers death certificate, while they have nothing in their hands other than personal guesswork. They have absolutely no credibility whatsoever. Not to mention that they contradict themselves as a force of habit, and tell you that your father knows where you are and loves you implicitly, but wont come and see you without you begging at his feet and if you don't he'll eventually come round and set you on fire for it. The only reason that would prevent you from instantly turfing them out of your house would be the small tingling fear that your father will really burn you if he is alive.

It's pathetic.

Woody: Unfortunately, you are not one of his children.

There you go then. Seeings as I'm not his child, which means he's not my parent - why would I be looking for him? Oh yeah, to save myself from burning.. almost forgot.

It wasn't a game when he died on a cross.

Yes it was. Unless of course you're telling me god really died. Are you worshipping a corpse? Is your god dead Woody? Man I'd do it as a party trick if I knew I'd get up a couple of days later. You'll probably chime up with: "But he went through pain".

A) I'd be quite confident in stating that god can handle a little pain and

B) I'd be quite confident in stating that god can handle a day or two of pain in an eternity of lifetime.

Who came to Him to give him comfort?

Aww, give god a hanky. I'm sure he has his share of friends up on his throne. Or not..

Who hoped He would make it?

Not any christian, that's for sure. Without him getting killed none of you are saved. Your entire belief system depends entirely on him being killed, (albeit very temporarily). christians, above anyone else on the planet, needed him to die the most.

He was killed for convenience.

No. His physical body was willfully terminated, (but doing him no actual harm whatsoever), all for the sake of his master plan.

 

[Woody]

S/L: Why would I do such a thing? Woody, have you ever asked for or sought Allah? If the being doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. That's how it goes.

Woody: Don't expect to get a date if you don't ask. I have asked for God and I received Him, just like he promised.

So tell me how you met your lovely bride. Did you stay in your closet, and suddenly a woman you'd never seen before called you on the phone and asked you out for a blind date? Fat chance. :bugeye:

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S/L: Let's put this in perspective:

Woody: I'm not sure I understand on this one. I indeed have a father that died last year.

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S/L: Yes it was. Unless of course you're telling me god really died. Are you worshipping a corpse? Is your god dead Woody? Man I'd do it as a party trick if I knew I'd get up a couple of days later.

Woody: Yes indeed he died, but he also resurrected himself. His tomb is empty. There is no corpse.

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S/L: Not any christian, that's for sure. Without him getting killed none of you are saved. Your entire belief system depends entirely on him being killed, (albeit very temporarily). christians, above anyone else on the planet, needed him to die the most.

Woody: Christians did not put him there. They have a better use for Him alive. You have a better use for Him as dead. This is what differentiates His children from everyone else.

Notice for example, when Jesus resurrected Lazarus -- you would suppose the whole world would rejoice in it. Instead, the pharisees plotted to have Lazurus killed as well-- that's human nature for you -- kill the one that brings us life, peace, health. Why? answer: Because He doesn't do it the way we like it to be done. We want to be in charge of it all. We can't let him be in charge.

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Woody: He was killed for convenience.

S/L: No. His physical body was willfully terminated, (but doing him no actual harm whatsoever), all for the sake of his master plan.

Woody: I speak of the swap made between Jesus and Barabbus. The pharisees found a convenient way to get Jesus executed through one of their traditions. This is how Jesus got the death penalty at their convenience.

 

[Prisme]

Man, this thread had the atheists spinning their wheels in the dirt... until they changed the subject.

 

[Prisme]

Originally Posted by wesmorris
It merely seeks to justify a presumption that can only be justified if presumed.

Replied by Water
But all human knowledge is like this, you know.

I disagree.

The core of any belief system is like that. Remember what I mentioned once before? "One can only utilize the essence of baye's theorum: What's the probability of this, if that is true?". A system of logical conclusions regarding knowledge are founded on a system of knowledge gained by faith (presumption). Such is the boundary of logic, it requires something upon which to build. Would you propose that an "intelligent designer" is an irrefutable assumption? That "I am", is an irrefutable assumption because if you are not, the statement itself is moot. If "you aren't" then there is no you to know there is no you and thus the connudrum is resolved painlessly. There is no down side to such a presumption. Assuming however "god is", is not so neatly resolved. That "god is" cannot be shown. That "I am", is demonstrated in the act of the assertion. That "god is"... can only be justified with emotion. Logically, that's quite perilous IMO - depending of course on your intended outcome. If understanding nature is your intended outcome, the presumption of god is as bad as you can do I'd think. If feeling that you understand nature is the intended outcome, then the presumption of god is a pretty decent bet.

The more serious repurcussions of the presumption, the more perilous the assertion.

There goes Wesmorris... living in his bubble not knowing anything else other than the fact he exists. He's not even sure whether he is actually writing to us

 

[audible]

Man, this thread had the atheists spinning their wheels in the dirt

where

... until they changed the subject.

where

 

[Woody]

Audible says: where? where?

Famous last words from a deer in the headlights.

 

[Sarkus]

A deer can speak?

 

[Imperfectionist]

You only have to try to defend evolution the same way creationists defend creationism, and see how rediculous it is

Darwin Chapter 1. Vs. 3,
And thus spoke Darwin, and he said'th, all the creatures of the Earth evolved from earlier, simpler forms, toward more complex animals by virture of natural selection, and verily it was thus, and he said it was good, and it was good.

See, it clearly says right there that evolution is how the various creatures came about, case closed.

 

[Woody]

Sarkas: A deer can speak?

Bible: Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

Woody: Uh Huh, they can speak. It takes a dumb ass to rebuke a crazy prophet, but I do like your humor.

 

[Woody]

Imperfectionist said: See, it clearly says right there that evolution is how the various creatures came about, case closed.

Yeah, look what it does to them:

Bible: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Woody's interpretation: God crawled out of a ball of gooh, sprouted some legs, and some arms too. Then he became a monkey swinging from a tree, and now he's a professor with a PHD. :bugeye:

 

[Imperfectionist]

Yup, that's what happened, now you think you are God, too good to have come from clay and ooze and muck, (which, one assumes, God also created).