superluminal said:
I think we have to realize that individuals of either stripe can be just as good or evil as the next guy.
this is exactly what i am saying.
The philosophy of religion is the problem.
is it not more like how that philosophy is misused?
if you have read any religious texts and given any thought to the meaning, then i am sure you must recognise the value of the philosophies.
The philosophy of science is one of constant questioning and exploring.
this is how it should be with religion also. an authority wich spoon feeds its consituents is creating its own demise, by nurturing dependence you propogate weakness.
If people decide to use the knowledge gained by science without questioning it, they're as bad as any theist.
where do you get the idea that theists are bad?
We live in a comparatively quiet time of religious semi-tolerance. Who here thinks it would be impossible to revert to the good old days of witch hunts and inquisitions? Holy knights on crusade? I don't. I think it's just a few elections away without the vigilant efforts of thousands of secularists.
So, the gaining of knowledge by science is neutral. What we do with it is not. I would rather see a rational government driven by scientific principles than a theistic one any day. Terrifying thought huh? A theocracy.
this is religion that is serving politiacl agendas, and i would agree this dfeinitely needs to be kept in check. this is not religion though this is misuse of power. as i said above as science will enhance this capacity to control the minds of people empirical methods applied to psychology mean more measurable ways of control more effeicent means of control will be developed more rapidly. this is is evident in all commercial forms of the medai now, to any one who as an understanding psychology.
superlumnial said:
I think you are wrong. The human way of living has remained essentially unchanged since before the first egyptian dynasties. In fact we were more advanced at such times, then religious wars knocked us back down.
the egyptians had highly developed religious structure too. there rites and rituals are still studied and practiced today, their gods are still evoked.
Only with the advent of science and the rejection of the supernatural have we seen a fundamental change in our way of life.
i suspect what you refer to as the supernatural is really the superficial aspects of religion, such things as the blind unquestioning acceptance of doctirne. the contol and manipulation of indivfduals by the use of authoritative scripts. there is nothing supernatural about such things. rejecting the superficiality of religion was a necessity the birth of science a necessity. the truth can not be hidden and those who see through lies will always question why those lies exist.
Morals don't come from religion or a god.
if you accept that we are all from god(i understnad that you dont accept this, but if you do) then everything that is within us and everything that is without comes from god also.
They are an inherent part of us as they are of all creatures to varying degrees.
yes, an inherent part of us, of all that exists, our nature.
Religion just gives certain humans the ability to control others.
so do guns, bombs, money and politics i will stop that list there as it is potentially endless. it is man that takes control not the knowledge, knowldege confers power and power requires responsibilty, it is unfortunate that power is saught by those who care little for their responsibilty to humanity. this is not the fault of religion, though is it?
