School Sucks...

[kazakhan]

I've been reading The Underground History of American Education and come to the following (Ch.2 pg.4).

The second document, the gigantic Behavioral Science Teacher Education Project, outlined teaching reforms to be forced on the country after 1967. If you ever want to hunt this thing down, it bears the U.S. Office of Education Contract Number OEC-0-9-320424-4042 (B10). The document sets out clearly the intentions of its creators—nothing less than "impersonal manipulation" through schooling of a future America in which "few will be able to maintain control over their opinions," an America in which "each individual receives at birth a multi-purpose identification number" which enables employers and other controllers to keep track of underlings and to expose them to direct or subliminal influence when necessary. Readers learned that "chemical experimentation" on minors would be normal procedure in this post-1967 world, a pointed foreshadowing of the massive Ritalin interventions which now accompany the practice of forced schooling.

Any comments/opinions on the above quote or the book? (Follow the link read it online)
While I'm thinking about it, what do people here believe are the current problems with the education system and what changes should be made? I'm assuming that at least in western nations the school systems are very similar.

 

[cato]

what changes should be made?

the only thing that can make schools better is students that want to learn. everyone blames all kinds of things, but it comes down to the students and their motivation to learn. so how do we motivate them? I don't know.

 

[ReighnStorm]

All of the educators need to be fired and then start over....all of the real history books need to be opened...the path of learning is not only to do school work but to discover and look for information on your own...you can't rely solely on another human beings thought process on what's important for you all the time....what you need to know and what you should know are two totally different things....take it from me finished school years ago.....learned most by living.......

 

[Xerxes]

If "few will be able to maintain control over their opinions," its because people are stupid and will believe whatever you tell them to.
And..
If there really was a conspiracy I doubt the government's competent enough to make it work. They can't even fix the damn potholes.

 

[kazakhan]

If "few will be able to maintain control over their opinions," its because people are stupid and will believe whatever you tell them to.
And..
If there really was a conspiracy I doubt the government's competent enough to make it work. They can't even fix the damn potholes.

Stupidity was/is a goal of various school policies. Conspiracy? Are you implying people do not colloborate when writing policy documents, that these things are written by an individual person without outside influence? Governments conspired with commercial enterprises to establish the education system. But that does not imply a "conspiracy theory". It's the nature of the beast. As for the potholes how many times have you complained about it to your local government?

 

[Beryl]

the only thing that can make schools better is students that want to learn. everyone blames all kinds of things, but it comes down to the students and their motivation to learn. so how do we motivate them? I don't know.

You're largely right, but so many changes would have to happen in order for kids to start enjoying the learning that it's really the rest that has to change more than that...

I have no idea precisely what would need to be done, though. Sometimes I wish I had gone to public school at least a little, so that I would have more experiences to work off of with stuff like this.

 

[s0meguy]

You're largely right, but so many changes would have to happen in order for kids to start enjoying the learning that it's really the rest that has to change more than that...

Everyone is different, you can't have a system that too much people like, there will always be other groups complaining.

 

[Yorda]

School makes you stupid... that is, after the 4th grade or so, when you've learnt all the basic things like writing and mathematics.

 

[Avatar]

school was ok I guess
my brain can't do math (no, it's not because of bad learning), so I completely failed algebra and geometry on finishing,
but upon applying to law faculty nobody minded that, nobody cares about math there

the worst thing in the system is that it's a system,
like s0meguy said

I would have prefered to spend my childhood doing other things,
but at least in Latvia there is not a system to make childern morons,
they teach quite much in our schools

 

[Mystech]

the only thing that can make schools better is students that want to learn. everyone blames all kinds of things, but it comes down to the students and their motivation to learn. so how do we motivate them? I don't know.

Well yes, that, and perhaps schools that aren't holding three times their intended capacity, which house drug rings, and students trying to kill each other every other day. A little bit of funding might be helpful, too. If we spent half as much on education as we do on defense our schools might actually have some resources and decent personnel to actually work with. Then again, as the military clearly shows, throwing money at something alone isn’t going to solve your problems or get you decent people where they’re needed. . .

 

[SpyMoose]

the only thing that can make schools better is students that want to learn. everyone blames all kinds of things, but it comes down to the students and their motivation to learn.

That’s a typical curmudgeonly answer. Am I to assume that in your day children were smarter and respected their elders? I side with the people who claim that stupidity is the goal of school, not education. Our education system was borrowed from the British public school system. We took our system whole cloth from the education system used to quash the ambitions and secure the obedience of the lower classes of a ridged caste system. It was supposed to fill peoples heads with ideas about obedience and sacrifice for the glory of the British empire. Our schools are more about teaching children to obey authority and to not think too far outside the structure of the social cast system than they are about producing big thinkers movers and shakers. That’s what more expensive private institutions are for.

Children love to learn, but what they get is rote memorization and tedious drilling designed to make them submissive to the existing social hierarchy. The powerful create systems like this so persons such as yourself will be too submissive to question them, instead placing the blame on children.

 

[JohnGalt]

Spy Moose is right. Children strive to learn. Usually. Until they have the concept bashed out of there heads throught something called "Progressive Education".

I suggest we kidnap Montessori's idea. I find it brilliant. I was in one for a couple of years, and I learned more then (from preschool to first grade) than I did in most of the time I spent at a public school in Plattsburg.

Either that, or we hand education over to be privately run. With no gov. taxes paying for it(the downside), the schools also don't have to do everything the gov. says(the upside). Then, if the schooling is bad, they can be easily taken out and sent to another school. You pay for the schooling directly, and you have much more voice in how it is run. However, knowing some adults today, that might not be exactly what we want, but it could be better than gov., and trying to preach ideas like intelligent design.

 

[SpyMoose]

I was going to bring up the Montessori method as an alternative, but to tell the truth I know so little about it I can't say I approve of it because I barely know what it is, just that certain educators think its the bees knees.

I don't think privatizing school is the answer. I do think that free public education is a goal to strive for. Inadequate government funding is turning schools toward corporate sponsors anyway and all that is doing is putting taco bell in cafeterias and making sure that graduates are qualified to work for said sponsors, essentially turning away from classical education to vocational training. I don’t think schools should be made into corporate training centers either.

 

[Avatar]

home education
not possible for most, but that's what I'd try if I had children

 

[JohnGalt]

Good point Spy.

Montessori is brillliant. The children work as they see fit. Well, there is some incentive and guidance from the teachers, but it is mostly the teacher states the dates of things, and you prepare for it. You work on your own, and if you don't understand, you ask the teacher. Rather simple. I presume some kids would not do well by these standards, especially if they came into it in the 9th grade. However, if they were raised in this type of school, it would be tremendously effective. The slow get help as they need, and the smarter can move faster and get what they want done. Much better than public schooling, in which everyone is drug along at the same pace-and with No Child Left Behind-a rather slow pace, especially for the smarter ones.

 

[grazzhoppa]

The high school I went to had no problem being funded, had excellent and dedicated teachers, excellent technology, excellent course selection - it is a model for modern schools and many schools in New Jersey are taking after it. It is also a public school.

But half of my education from that school was learning to take standarized tests. The required courses everybody had to take were basically classes that taught you just enough to do well on New Jersey's High School Proficiency Test and the SAT. Half of my education was learning to pass a test - it was very impractical. Instead of discussing things that could be applied to your life, you learn things that could be applied to a test.

Because of how big the school was, they used block scheduling where you would have four 1 hour and 30 min classes a day. Teachers didn't know how to use 1 hour and 30 minutes to teach. Many taught for 1 hour and gave kids the other 30 minutes to do homework or watch an "educational" video - often a hollywood movie relating to the subject. If they did teach the entire class, they would cover so many topics that many, many kids would find it hard to follow.

We had an ID number given to us because of how large the school was.
In my freshman year, we had some "police officer" give us a high energy propaganda talk about how the police will catch you if you do drugs. He talked NARCs being in the school, how the police have no pity for you, etc. There's your "direct manipulation" for you.

In response to No Child Left Behind: My school didn't particularly like it when it went into effect. Yet we had many advanced classes like Honors or AP, and most kids took a class that fit their needs, so you wouldn't have 1 kid holding up more advanced kids. There were 4 levels for many core classes: Remedial, Normal, Honors, AP.

But still, the normal classes that everyone was required to take were incredibly slow going for more advanced students. As soon as I left that school, they implemented a program were students could take a test and if they passed the test, they would receive credits for the required course the test cooresponded to. So advanced students wouldn't have to sit through "slow" classes. I wish they had that when I went there.

 

[plexus]

The classes and variety of offered courses are fine, or at least they were in the schools I attended. I'd provide more freedom outside of class: not forcing students to sit in cafeterias, not forcing junior high students walk around the white line down the middle of the hall. Freedom would teach them to be more responsible.

 

[kazakhan]

The classes and variety of offered courses are fine, or at least they were in the schools I attended.

The course offered at most institutions are ususally good. For me the problem is the way the system is structured.
School hours and attendance requirements should be much more flexible even optional all together. Standardized testing should not happen, at least before high school. A students ability can be measured through the usual course work.

 

[Xerxes]

Kazakhan,

Stupidity was/is a goal of various school policies. Conspiracy? Are you implying people do not colloborate when writing policy documents, that these things are written by an individual person without outside influence? Governments conspired with commercial enterprises to establish the education system. But that does not imply a "conspiracy theory". It's the nature of the beast. As for the potholes how many times have you complained about it to your local government?

Nope. What I'm implying is that conspiracy - like all things - is subject to entropy.

If anything, people build up conspiracy in their minds from years of social terraforming and then become a part of it voluntarily. The government doesn't have a clear agenda because there is too much disagreement from within, so instead they do whatever it is that will keep the whole in power for the longest time.

Oh - and I don't complain about potholes. We don't really have any here.. :m:

 

[kowkow]

School makes you stupid... that is, after the 4th grade or so, when you've learnt all the basic things like writing and mathematics.

It's already waaay too late by 4th grade. Already ruint for life.

School is not just imcompetent. It is systematic. Designed to make nice obedient little drones to keep the wheels turning, in order for the Beast to fulfill it's dream of absolute power. I think few, whether school-goers or no, really have any idea how far reaching and absolute the effects of this are on themselves and society, even the enlightened ones. To overthrow the education system is to overthrow the world.