Saudi Arabia Bans Dog Walking

[Bells]

I think they can have any laws they want in their own society. All this judgemental imposition by western society is what has caused the troubles in so many parts of the world today.

I am not saying that they cannot have any law they want. Personally, I think the law or regulation is stupid and insane. I am not imposing my opinion on this on the country by way of demanding sanctions or the like.

Although with some of their laws which breach basic human rights, as with other countries with laws that breach human rights, maybe some form of outside pressure should be applied. I fully recognise cultural and religious diversity, but some form of common ground has to be found and I would expect that it can be.

But this law? It is ridiculous in the extreme because it is so extreme. It has the element of being farcical. As I said above, babies probably attract more attention from women than dogs do. So if they fear that kind of interaction with between non-related men and women, it frankly wouldn't surprise me if men were not allowed out in public with their own babies lest they become "babe magnets". And yes, if such an eventuality were to happen, it too would be stupid and insane.

I mean come on.. banning walking the family pet in case it attracts attention from the opposite sex? Come on Sam.. Surely you see the ridiculousness of such a proposition, whether it is easily enforceable or not. Please tell me you do.:bawl:

 

[S.A.M.]

Although with some of their laws which breach basic human rights, as with other countries with laws that breach human rights, maybe some form of outside pressure should be applied.

Do you know what unintended consequences are? When the UN imposed its child labour laws on India and insisted that children below a certain age should not work, the parents could no longer afford to feed them and sold them into prostitution. Just because it works in your society is no reason to force other people to live the same way. Maybe they don't want to. Maybe they can't. In any case, it should be their choice.

 

[Bells]

Do you know what unintended consequences are? When the UN imposed its child labour laws on India and insisted that children below a certain age should not work, the parents could no longer afford to feed them and sold them into prostitution. Just because it works in your society is no reason to force other people to live the same way. Maybe they don't want to. Maybe they can't. In any case, it should be their choice.

I think the current push in many human rights circle is to force industries to pay child workers the required wage for their work, a wage they would have to pay an adult for doing the same work. I dislike (actually, I hate it with a passion) child labour, but I, like many, recognise that in some countries like India, some families are unable to afford to not have their children working and frankly, those children should be paid accordingly. For those families, it is a matter of survival.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think the current push in many human rights circle is to force industries to pay child workers the required wage for their work, a wage they would have to pay an adult for doing the same work. I dislike (actually, I hate it with a passion) child labour, but I, like many, recognise that in some countries like India, some families are unable to afford to not have their children working and frankly, those children should be paid accordingly. For those families, it is a matter of survival.

Unfortunately, these considerations come too late for the children who have already been sold into prostitution. The one size fits all dogma is a dangerous one and has already claimed many victims. But yet, we go through the same vicious cycles over and over.

 

[draqon]

I fully support the Saudi Arabian banning of dogs and cats, because they are indeed used for flirting and sexual connections. This is simply unacceptable in the Arab world.

 

[draqon]

Furthermore all dogs should be banned. Meanwhile cats are good pets to have, so we can have them everywhere.

 

[Simon Anders]

I think they can have any laws they want in their own society. All this judgemental imposition by western society is what has caused the troubles in so many parts of the world today.

Which they? The problem with this view is it seems to me it ends up classifying the citizens of countries and the land in those countries as the property of whatever government happens to have power. Perhaps Westerners, or really outsiders anywhere looking at a country other than their own should remove the beam from their own eyes (and all that) - and this particular instance does seem like a mote in the Saudi eye - but I don't want to feel like governments or those in power are somehow legitimized and immune from skepticism, foreign or domestic. And that of course holds for how my government treats me or the land itself. I think it is fine if citizens of other countries cluck their tongues if my fellow citizens are treated foolishly or oppressively by our own government. I do feel this latter point is critical, that it is a two way street.

I think every idiot in power should know that even if they have enough power to control their own press, they will be presented as fools somewhere else, at least in somone's blogg.

These nations seems pretty random to me, not entities that arise naturally out of people or groups.

 

[S.A.M.]

Which they? The problem with this view is it seems to me it ends up classifying the citizens of countries and the land in those countries as the property of whatever government happens to have power. Perhaps Westerners, or really outsiders anywhere looking at a country other than their own should remove the beam from their own eyes (and all that) - and this particular instance does seem like a mote in the Saudi eye - but I don't want to feel like governments or those in power are somehow legitimized and immune from skepticism, foreign or domestic. And that of course holds for how my government treats me or the land itself. I think it is fine if citizens of other countries cluck their tongues if my fellow citizens are treated foolishly or oppressively by our own government. I do feel this latter point is critical, that it is a two way street.

I think every idiot in power should know that even if they have enough power to control their own press, they will be presented as fools somewhere else, at least in somone's blogg.

These nations seems pretty random to me, not entities that arise naturally out of people or groups.

Criticism is fine, but western criticism tends to fall under

1. sanctions and bombing
2. more bombing
3. permanent bases

Not really the kind of stuff that encourages self reflection.

 

[Simon Anders]

Criticism is fine, but western criticism tends to fall under

1. sanctions and bombing
2. more bombing
3. permanent bases

Not really the kind of stuff that encourages self reflection.

I can't make it all that simple (while agreeing with many things but without mentioning that as you have said you do).
1) I think humans need to start grinding exceeding small. And 'authority' rules at home and abroad should be placed between the millstones. As learning exercises, because perhaps it will be heard 'over there' and 'over here' both by those who can make 'their' people silent, distracted, look silly or evil, etc. AND by the people who may, even if only in the slightest degree believe in some part of themselves that they SHOULD be treated poorly.
2) The Saudi 'authorities', given who they are and their buddies, are unlikely targets for such interventions.

So some sort of seesawing between the position you are putting forward and the one I am putting forward in reaction to yours seems like the balance point. And then also, I think it matters what the intent of the criticism is. Is coming from on high and pressing down or is it coming from empathy and hoping to get air in where some people are having trouble breathing or at least upset they have no air. (but I think you know this)

 

[S.A.M.]

I can't make it all that simple (while agreeing with many things but without mentioning that as you have said you do).
1) I think humans need to start grinding exceeding small. And 'authority' rules at home and abroad should be placed between the millstones. As learning exercises, because perhaps it will be heard 'over there' and 'over here' both by those who can make 'their' people silent, distracted, look silly or evil, etc. AND by the people who may, even if only in the slightest degree believe in some part of themselves that they SHOULD be treated poorly.
2) The Saudi 'authorities', given who they are and their buddies, are unlikely targets for such interventions.

So some sort of seesawing between the position you are putting forward and the one I am putting forward in reaction to yours seems like the balance point. And then also, I think it matters what the intent of the criticism is. Is coming from on high and pressing down or is it coming from empathy and hoping to get air in where some people are having trouble breathing or at least upset they have no air. (but I think you know this)

Thats your POV. On the inside, people believe that their society is crime free and the religious police a pain in teh butt. The King is not a bad guy and has good intentions; however, he is not sure that western values will be better for his society. In some ways the Saudis are ahead of the game and I think there is no need to force them to join the rest of the world before they are ready. Many young Saudis are now more aware of the outside world [through the internet and cable, not to mention music and movies] and are eager to be a part of it. I think you will see dramatic changes in that society. If the American wars don't reach there first [like Iran in the 50s, Afghanistan in the 80s and Iraq in the last twenty years]

 

[S.A.M.]

The difference in journalism

Arabnews on the dog ban

Foxnews on the dog ban

 

[ashura]

But how will people find dogs that can be used for security or hunting purposes? “Like they used to in the old days,” said Al-Ghamdi after a pause.

 

[KennyJC]

I think they can have any laws they want in their own society. All this judgemental imposition by western society is what has caused the troubles in so many parts of the world today.

So you will also be able to make exuses for jailing raped women in Saudi Arabia?

Let's hear it... let's hear what excuse you can make for that one.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The difference in journalism

Arabnews on the dog ban

Foxnews on the dog ban

The Stray Cat Society knows somebody's lying.

The Arab news people focussed more on the religious angle, carefully trying to justify the idiocy of such rulings, even blaming the problem on the West. Fox on the other hand played it up so that the Arabs looked like idiots. Either way, the underlying theme is that Saudi Arabia is run by idiots.

 

[S.A.M.]

So you will also be able to make exuses for jailing raped women in Saudi Arabia?

Let's hear it... let's hear what excuse you can make for that one.

The same ones that exist for putting people in Gitmo. Or letting off US troops who gangraped that 14 year old and then set her on fire after shooting her and her 5 year old sister to death. If its the law, thats pretty much what it is. Public opinion can work to change it, but force never works [except in American fantasies of spreading democracy] e.g. Singapore has a law to execute anyone who is caught even holding a small amount of drugs. If you are found with drugs, even if they are not yours, you WILL be executed.

I think the best way to show your disapproval is not to do business with such a group. Not bomb them.

 

[Orleander]

^&%$# Danggit you all!
I was talking about how its now illegal in parts of SA to walk a dog. How do you manage to take it here?!

If I change it from SA to Iceland, can we leave US politics and the rest of the world world out of it. Lord love a duck, some of you are obsessive.

ANYWAYS! Would it be illegal for a married couple to walk a dog?

 

[OilIsMastery]

How would they ever enforce it?

The same way they enforce everything else: a beheading in the manner of the so-called "Prophet."

That rapist mass murdering slave trader and thief is a Prophet like I'm a Roman Emperor.

 

[Orleander]

AUGH!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDk5TVawU74

 

[one_raven]

Its the Kingdom Center, Riyadh. Its supposed to be an iconic representation of Saudi Arabia

It's hideously ugly and ostentatious.

 

[Simon Anders]

Thats your POV.

Well, of course. If I start signing off on my posts in the name of God, let me know.

On the inside, people believe that their society is crime free and the religious police a pain in teh butt.

And some people think watching American Idol is just fine. People can be confused and we can speculate on our reactions.

The King is not a bad guy

Really? He is a key enabler of, according to you and many, some of the most violent and genocidal current behavior on the planet. Key word, enabler. I could also have said ally, supporter, dependent, supplicant, partner......In fact the ruling elite in SA is rather complicit in recent US interventions in the region.