satan and heaven

one_raven said:
Someone please explain to me why people think that Isaiah 14 refers to Satan.
Reading it in context, it seems perfectly plain and simple to me that it was referring to a human King that had the arrogance to state that he was equal or above God.

I don't know where they find the connection between Lucifer and Satan.
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The tower of babel is theorized by some to have been made in Babylon. It is believed to have been derived from the semitic word babilu meaning the gates of God. But in the Bible man built the great tower of Babel to be one with God before God, (if i remember correctly) struck it down and scattered the builders and gave them different languges so they could not understand one another. I can't find proof but I wonder if this is not linked to babbling...or talking in a non-understandable way. It is possible that the hell written about in the bible was allegorically presented based on the Christian intrepretation of Babylon.

http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Babylon.html


Hezekiah was a king who ruled over Jerusalem, a holy city and possible metaphore for heaven. Hezekiah was critized by Isiah who was a Christian prophet. If Hezekiah was trying to rule Jersusalem, a holy city represented as "heaven on earth" and was looked negativly upon by a prophet of God than could he have fought allegorically with God and been cast back to Babylon, from whence he came, much like God cast Satan from Heaven into Hell? Just a theory I made up just now......
http://jeru.huji.ac.il/eb34s.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Hezekiah.html
 
robtex said:
Allegorical in existance or literal? elaborate on that statement. I like your post...ty
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Your welcome.

I mean it in the literal sense. "Heaven is a state of being." I'm sure you know what a state of being is, but for the sake of clarity, I'll give a couple examples.


I am cold, is simply to say that I am in the state of coldness, or lacking in sufficient warmth according to the optimal temperature for my body.

I am young, is simply to say that I am in the state of youth, or have not yet reached my peak physical and mental age, that is, a state of full physical and mental maturity.


Heaven, being a state of being, is simply that state in which one undergoes constant, uninterrupted, growth, satisfaction, and happiness. One may experience degrees of heaven during this life when one experiences a moment (of any length) of pure happiness, complete contentment, etc... I say growth, since growth is part of our nature, and we are only satisfied when our nature is satisfied (that is, we act according to our nature, or we experience a state in which nothing of our nature is lacking). I say satisfaction, because happiness is a result of satisfaction, or fulfillment. Ergo, heaven, in simplest terms, is a state of complete, ever growing, untainted happiness.
 
Satan can be defined simply as that which accuses you or wishes you harm. That which causes dissention among brothers. Do not be deceived, this conflict we see is not a battle between flesh and blood but rather those powers that are opposed to the light and to the truth. Turn your hearts towards God and do not be like those who accuse you.

peace

c20
 
Beyondtimeandspace if Heaven is a literal state of being...than where do we go when we die?

c20H25N3o, do you believe Satan is a living existing enitiy or a metaphore for evil? If he is such that exist acutally, and he was in Heaven at one point is that to say evil can exist in heaven ?
 
robtex said:
Beyondtimeandspace if Heaven is a literal state of being...than where do we go when we die?

c20H25N3o, do you believe Satan is a living existing enitiy or a metaphore for evil? If he is such that exist acutally, and he was in Heaven at one point is that to say evil can exist in heaven ?
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Satan is an entity. Where you have an enemy you have something that 'should not be'! That entity is an enemy of you! The enemy is not flesh and blood but spirit. Flesh and blood was designed for love and its purpose was to love and serve in love. Hate is an enemy of love. The two are as opposed as light and dark. Satan is a created' being'. God is 'The One'.
Satan was cast down to Earth by God at the Rebellion.
Satan now uses people's fallen natures to sow unpleasant thoughts of murder and hate against their brothers and sisters ( i.e. flesh and blood i.e 'us')
Some people use their wills for evil and are sons of that devil because they have hated the light and have prefered the powers of evil and darkness.
All men may be saved through Jesus Christ our Lord. St Paul talks about the Spirit's work in the 'Renewal of the Mind'. We have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory that God intended for us. Satan's time is short. Very short!
Glory to God on The Highest
 
c20H25N3o said:
Satan now uses people's fallen natures to sow unpleasant thoughts of murder and hate against their brothers and sisters ( i.e. flesh and blood i.e 'us')
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Ok walk that through and example from start to finish. Lets say I robtex, kill a guy who I think slept with my girlfirend. Just a hypothical. Walk me through start to finish my thoughts leading up to that action including Satan's part in my murder. Or if that one is not a good fit for your presented thought substitute a different example but take if from an intangable thought to a tangable thought by placing this theory in an example. You can pick a real life act of evil if you like instead.

With regards to the rest of that post. That means Satan is the archtype of evil (and God the archtype of good). Satan was in heaven..the kindom from which God whose is good dwells. Satan is evil. Satan was in heaven therefore evil can exist in Heaven..true or false.
 
one_raven said:
Someone please explain to me why people think that Isaiah 14 refers to Satan.
Reading it in context, it seems perfectly plain and simple to me that it was referring to a human King that had the arrogance to state that he was equal or above God.

I don't know where they find the connection between Lucifer and Satan.
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satan is god. bow down to satan. he is your master. love your master. he controlls you.
 
nicoman said:
satan is god. bow down to satan. he is your master. love your master. he controlls you.
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Ironically it is only a coward who would bow to an accuser of him. Dont be a coward!
 
nicoman said:
robtex, where do you come from? you are evil. you are not commited. where do you come from?
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nicoman - please debate. anyone can be an ass ok. if you are struggling to 'really' join in with the topic may I suggest that you find a topic that you have something constructive to say about.

cheers

c20
 
nicoman said:
robtex, where do you come from? you are evil. you are not commited. where do you come from?
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Nico, I hail from texas and my name is Robert. Robtex=Robert from Texas I am not evil. I am committed to finding what is true, valid, or reasonable which is part of my journey here. Will you come from behind your veil and introduce yourself?
 
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