Rules concerning what constitutes a personal attack are too vague

[Bells]

I agree that with multiple moderators, it is impossible to be 100% consistent. However, I think things would be a lot -more- consistent if the terms on the blacklist of insults was expanded every time a moderator censored someone for using a term that's not on it. I'm fine with leeway given if the term is used in a bantering way. There may need to be something written down in the forum rules as to how banter is defined, as you have already done with me.

So a growing list of what can be constituted as a personal insult? Not just a few choice terms? And now you think that we all need a definition about what would constitute as banter?

Righteo.

At some point, I envisage a time when 'kumquat' will be banned from this forum due to its ability to be construed as an insult. The same could be said for aubergine and cherry.

As for defining banter.. Well. If someone is unable to tell when banter occurs, then they have some issues. I can't believe you are going so far as to say that we need to define what constitutes banter.. /Boggles

 

[Oli]

'kumquat'

Reported.

 

[Bells]

Reported.

Bastard!

Ech. Now I will have to report myself.:bawl:

 

[Sciencelovah]

Bastard!

Ech. Now I will have to report myself.

*checking the list* Eek, you have just saying 1 out of the 6-you-know-what, Bells

Scott, moderating are voluntary jobs, so why make it difficult for everybody? Also, why take everything so serious, above the sky there is also another sky, you know....! Confused? It's because it's irrelevant I am oh so sleepy, good night, everyone!

 

[Bells]

Inzomnia! <3


And Scott, the above is a perfect example of banter. Yes, I used one of the 'big bad words', but it was said in jest. Now it might very well be the case that you find the word "bastard" to be so terrifyingly insulting that even its use in jest would result in your spamming the 'report' feature, but if I received such a report from a 3rd party witnessing the jokes between two members, I would not take action against the two members. I guess you would consider that to be inconsistent, but the danger of banning words that could be deemed offensive would result in zero banter or jokes on this forum and frankly, it would make it dull as hell.

Ah crap. I said "hell". Should that be banned too?

Damn.. and "crap".

:bawl:

And Damn..

It never ends..

:bawl:

 

[scott3x]

I agree that with multiple moderators, it is impossible to be 100% consistent. However, I think things would be a lot -more- consistent if the terms on the blacklist of insults was expanded every time a moderator censored someone for using a term that's not on it. I'm fine with leeway given if the term is used in a bantering way. There may need to be something written down in the forum rules as to how banter is defined, as you have already done with me.

So a growing list of what can be constituted as a personal insult? Not just a few choice terms?

Even forum rules makes it clear that the 6 example terms is not the complete list. Perhaps there will never be a complete list, but surely a few more then 6 can be put up.

And now you think that we all need a definition about what would constitute as banter?

I believe you've already given a relatively good definition; I just don't think it's in the forum rules.

At some point, I envisage a time when 'kumquat' will be banned from this forum due to its ability to be construed as an insult. The same could be said for aubergine and cherry.

I don't. However, there are already other words not in the 6 term list that have had action taken against them; such as the f word and derivatives, prick and pea brain. I'm sure there are others. Why not add them to the blacklist?

As for defining banter.. Well. If someone is unable to tell when banter occurs, then they have some issues.

Recently, you seemed to imply that Ophiolite was bantering and yet he specifically stated that he wasn't. Was he being sarcastic? Who knows. All I know is that it may not always be clear cut. However, I'm willing to put aside the banter issue for now; a hard and fast rule may be that if the mod thinks it's banter and no one complains, it can be classified as banter. The impotant thing, in my view, is expanding the blacklist, with terms that have already had action taken against them; as even you have made evidently clear, it is simply not always known when an insult is considered censurable here; adding to the blacklist would help in this regard.

 

[scott3x]

Inzomnia! <3


And Scott, the above is a perfect example of banter. Yes, I used one of the 'big bad words', but it was said in jest. Now it might very well be the case that you find the word "bastard" to be so terrifyingly insulting that even its use in jest would result in your spamming the 'report' feature, but if I received such a report from a 3rd party witnessing the jokes between two members, I would not take action against the two members. I guess you would consider that to be inconsistent, but the danger of banning words that could be deemed offensive would result in zero banter or jokes on this forum and frankly, it would make it dull as hell.

Ah crap. I said "hell". Should that be banned too?

Damn.. and "crap".

:bawl:

And Damn..

It never ends..

:bawl:

I think I've dealt with the banter argument and I think that's clearly happening now . You mods clearly decide as to what you consider to be censurable terms. I have no problem with that. Just make a more complete list so that everyone -else- knows what terms you guys consider off limits. Heck, I'm even ok with different forums having different blacklists; as long as there's a place to check, both people who tend to get a bit harsh with the language and those who like to report insults at times, they can both have a reference to know what insults are censurable.

 

[Bells]

Even forum rules makes it clear that the 6 example terms is not the complete list. Perhaps there will never be a complete list, but surely a few more then 6 can be put up.

Of course. Why stop at 6 when you can include the whole English language!

Any word or sequence of words can be used in a manner that is insulting.

I believe you've already given a relatively good definition; I just don't think it's in the forum rules.

What?

What?

You need banter defined in the forum rules?

I don't. However, there are already other words not in the 6 term list that have had action taken against them; such as the f word and derivatives, prick and pea brain. I'm sure there are others. Why not add them to the blacklist?

So if I told you that your gonads reminded me of dessicated kumquats, you would not find that insulting?

At some point, I am hoping that you actually will understand where I am going with this. Little hope, but hey, hope is hope.

Recently, you seemed to imply that Ophiolite was bantering and yet he specifically stated that he wasn't. Was he being sarcastic? Who knows. All I know is that it may not always be clear cut.

Err no. I knew and understood full well that Oph was being insulting. I guess that my skin is a bit thicker and I am not so easily offended. Now, I could have been anal about it and reported his post, given him an official warning, but I did not. Do you know why? Well the fact that I am not anal about such things might be one idea, but it would confuse this issue even more.

However, I'm willing to put aside the banter issue for now;

My. How good of you.

This is the point where I am supposed to bow to the rising sun and say 'thank ye Jebus'?

a hard and fast rule may be that if the mod thinks it's banter and no one complains, it can be classified as banter.

Ah ma Gad..:bawl:

The impotant thing, in my view, is expanding the blacklist, with terms that have already had action taken against them; as even you have made evidently clear, it is simply not always known when an insult is considered censurable here; adding to the blacklist would help in this regard.

Like "fuck you" for example?

Has been said in banter and as an insult. It has also had "action" taken against it and the member warned.

Do you see the point where such a blacklist could get to the point of being ridiculous?

I think I've dealt with the banter argument and I think that's clearly happening now .

You think?

I have no problem with that. Just make a more complete list so that everyone -else- knows what terms you guys consider off limits. Heck, I'm even ok with different forums having different blacklists; as long as there's a place to check, both people who tend to get a bit harsh with the language and those who like to report insults at times, they can both have a reference to know what insults are censurable.

In other words, you want to make sure that members can go through a checklist as they are writing an angry response to another member, to check if 'your gonads remind me of a dessicated kumquat' is on the blacklist?

Do you honestly think that members, in their sometimes rabid state when posting replies, are actually going to through a long and convoluted list (expanding list no less) to make sure that whatever words they are about to use is not on said list?

 

[Oli]

Create a kumquatting poll and find out what the general opinion on "adding words" to the cucumbered list is.

Otherwise DROP THE FUCKING SUBJECT OR GO ELSEWHERE.
SciForums is NOT about what YOU want out of it.
Square pegs do not fit into round holes.

 

[leopold]

You need banter defined in the forum rules?

of course! any police state would, i thought you knew that.
talk about thumbscrews . . .

 

[draqon]

People stop cursing please and speak in a courteous manner towards each other.

 

[Bells]

I propose we create a list and add 'Kumquat'. For reasons already stated.

As well as 'Aubergines'.. I mean, do you want to be compared to an eggplant. Think about it.

The same goes for 'Squash'. I don't think I even need to go there.

And 'Noodle'. We can't forget the 'noodle'.. put that in front of 'brain', 'dick', 'hair'..

Hmmm I am thinking stir fried noodles for dinner. With thinly sliced squash quickly whipped through a hot wok, with an assortment of vegetables and maybe some very thinly sliced beef and lap chuong. Flavoured with some sesame oil and a dash of oyster sauce.

Well at any rate, this thread is providing me with ideas for dinner.

Might make Baba Ganoush for lunch tomorrow too.

 

[scott3x]

Even forum rules makes it clear that the 6 example terms is not the complete list. Perhaps there will never be a complete list, but surely a few more then 6 can be put up.

Of course. Why stop at 6 when you can include the whole English language!

Any word or sequence of words can be used in a manner that is insulting.

Let's not get carried away there Bells . Why not simply include words that moderators have taken action against?

I believe you've already given a relatively good definition; I just don't think it's in the forum rules.

What?

What?

You need banter defined in the forum rules?

No, I don't; you explained it to me. However, I don't think that everyone in this forum has read your explanation.

I don't. However, there are already other words not in the 6 term list that have had action taken against them; such as the f word and derivatives, prick and pea brain. I'm sure there are others. Why not add them to the blacklist?

So if I told you that your gonads reminded me of dessicated kumquats, you would not find that insulting?

At some point, I am hoping that you actually will understand where I am going with this. Little hope, but hey, hope is hope.

I think I do; I think what you're saying is that innocuous words, when used in a personal attack, can become something else. Granted. At that point, by all means, use moderator discretion. What I'm talking about are obvious insults that only in exceptional circumstances would be considered anything else. If one of those exceptions occurs, let it pass. But I still think it should be included in the blacklist.

Recently, you seemed to imply that Ophiolite was bantering and yet he specifically stated that he wasn't. Was he being sarcastic? Who knows. All I know is that it may not always be clear cut.

Err no. I knew and understood full well that Oph was being insulting. I guess that my skin is a bit thicker and I am not so easily offended. Now, I could have been anal about it and reported his post, given him an official warning, but I did not. Do you know why? Well the fact that I am not anal about such things might be one idea, but it would confuse this issue even more.

He didn't seem to be overly insulting. And I've taken your idea that innocuous words can be used as personal attacks to heart; I've just reported what I believe is the first post that uses this method (not yours, despite our disagreements, I've never reported anything of yours; it was that dang leopold again).

However, I'm willing to put aside the banter issue for now

My. How good of you.

This is the point where I am supposed to bow to the rising sun and say 'thank ye Jebus'?

Laugh .

a hard and fast rule may be that if the mod thinks it's banter and no one complains, it can be classified as banter.

Ah ma Gad..

Laugh .

The important thing, in my view, is expanding the blacklist, with terms that have already had action taken against them; as even you have made evidently clear, it is simply not always known when an insult is considered censurable here; adding to the blacklist would help in this regard.

Like "fuck you" for example?

Yes, I definitely think that the f word and its derivatives should be included. I happen to know that action has been taken against this term more then once and I agree with those decisions.

[the f word] Has been said in banter and as an insult. It has also had "action" taken against it and the member warned.

Do you see the point where such a blacklist could get to the point of being ridiculous?

If you included kumquats, yes. However, I think that the f word can certainly be included. I can go for it as rarely being used as banter, I'm just saying that in general it's not and people should be aware that when verbally attacking one's opponent, the term is off limits. No hitting below the belt type deal.

I think I've dealt with the banter argument and I think that's clearly happening now .

You think?

I do

I have no problem with that. Just make a more complete list so that everyone -else- knows what terms you guys consider off limits. Heck, I'm even ok with different forums having different blacklists; as long as there's a place to check, both people who tend to get a bit harsh with the language and those who like to report insults at times, they can both have a reference to know what insults are censurable.

In other words, you want to make sure that members can go through a checklist as they are writing an angry response to another member, to check if 'your gonads remind me of a dessicated kumquat' is on the blacklist?

Not quite. I certainly agree that some attacks can be so creative as to use generally harmless words and turn them into heat seeking missiles. It might at times be instructive to tell the poster of the insult where they went wrong but I certainly don't think that some words should be included in a blacklist just because some people are fairly creative when they go on the attack. However, there are others, such as the f word that are generally red flags. So why not expand the black list to include such terms?

Do you honestly think that members, in their sometimes rabid state when posting replies, are actually going to through a long and convoluted list (expanding list no less) to make sure that whatever words they are about to use is not on said list?

Probably not. Most people don't have a lot of patience. But that's their problem, not the problem of the mods. And if they do use one of the more common personal attacks, a mod can simply say 'read the blacklist next time'.

 

[scott3x]

People stop cursing please and speak in a courteous manner towards each other.

That's essentially what I'm trying to accomplish. Thanks for putting it succinctly draqon.

 

[scott3x]

I propose we create a list and add 'Kumquat'. For reasons already stated.

As well as 'Aubergines'.. I mean, do you want to be compared to an eggplant. Think about it.

The same goes for 'Squash'. I don't think I even need to go there.

And 'Noodle'. We can't forget the 'noodle'.. put that in front of 'brain', 'dick', 'hair'..

Hmmm I am thinking stir fried noodles for dinner. With thinly sliced squash quickly whipped through a hot wok, with an assortment of vegetables and maybe some very thinly sliced beef and lap chuong. Flavoured with some sesame oil and a dash of oyster sauce.

Well at any rate, this thread is providing me with ideas for dinner.

Might make Baba Ganoush for lunch tomorrow too.

Very funny Bells . I'm not saying that vegetables should be on the black list, but you do have a point about compound terms. Perhaps we can skip over the compound terms for now and simply focus on single term insults. For instance, the rules say that profanity isn't allowed. But I'm certainly not sure as to what would constitute profanity. A list of profanities that sci forums considers to qualify would be helpful; perhaps they could even link to a page that's elsewhere so that only those who aren't sure what qualifies could check.

 

[Bells]

There is only one reply that can be given here.

:geek::wallbang::bawl:

And that is the end of me in this thread for now I believe.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I need some aspirin for my head.

 

[Oli]

People stop cursing please and speak in a courteous manner towards each other.

Draq: re-read some of your own posts before you start spouting this sort of nonsense.

 

[leopold]

Draq: re-read some of your own posts before you start spouting this sort of nonsense.

you think he's bad now you should've been around about a month ago.
ol' draq is pretty well laid back but he's been acting like he's got a bug up his ass recently.

 

[Ophiolite]

The only way for there to be absolute consistency is to get rid of all moderators and have only one moderator who would oversee every single sub-forum in this forum.

Is it really that difficult? Is language truly such a challenge? Is comprehension always just beyond your grasp.

Nowhere. N O W H E R E, have I asked for, demanded, suggested was attainable, promoted, or otherwise spoken in favour of absolute consistency. You change the entire fabric of the discussion by introducing an unwanted, unasked for, unwashed absolute.

You go on to say "I fully understand where you are coming from."

If you can introduce an obfuscating absolute into the equation then I doubt you even know where you are coming from, let alone anyone else. Please learn to read. That involve more than recognising the words on a screen. You need to think about what they mean.


To Dxm, or whatever your aphalebt is, why should I leave the forum because people lack reading skills? Did you ask that because you lack logical skills?

 

[Bells]

Is it really that difficult? Is language truly such a challenge? Is comprehension always just beyond your grasp.

Nowhere. N O W H E R E, have I asked for, demanded, suggested was attainable, promoted, or otherwise spoken in favour of absolute consistency. You change the entire fabric of the discussion by introducing an unwanted, unasked for, unwashed absolute.

You go on to say "I fully understand where you are coming from."

If you can introduce an obfuscating absolute into the equation then I doubt you even know where you are coming from, let alone anyone else. Please learn to read. That involve more than recognising the words on a screen. You need to think about what they mean.

Aaaa beeee ceeee

Tell me oh master. Am I getting close?