Revenge?

[Baron Max]

So... taking it back more or less to the original context of this thread, just how far CAN the individual citizen go in protecting himself? Where does he draw the line?

I don't know exactly. I suppose that it should be determined by a court of law. But the laws must, somehow, change to permit an individual to act decisively in what he sees as a threat to his life or his family's lives. As it is, there are few states in the USA which actually permit "self-defense" as a plea in, say, killing another person. Florida just recently passed such a law, and Texas also has provisions for "self-defense". Many states' laws actually forbid one to protect himself and it's a felony to do so!!

I agree with you that it's not such a simple task and I think that it would have to be settled in the courts. I know of no legitimate way of writing something like that into a law ...it's just too complex. Florida has tried it with the new "Castle Doctrine" which has yet to be tested in court.

But, think about it, .....how can the police protect us? Oh, they might, MIGHT, be able to catch the man who raped and killed your wife and daughter, but is that all you want? Are you satisfied to "allow" that to happen to your family under the existing legal system of police and courts?

My personal opinion is that if EVERYONE carried a handgun (and knew how to use it!), we'd have a helluva lot LESS crime than we do now. Few criminals would be willing to take such a chance for something like a few dollars that's in someone's pocket! Criminals might be mean and nasty, but most of 'em ain't totally stupid! As it is now, most criminals know that you, the individual, ain't got a gun nor do you know how to use it ....they prey upon the weak. Criminals do NOT prey upon the strong or the well-armed.

Where do we draw the line? I would have to say ...immenient threat of ones life or property. I'm hesitant to include the protection of others???? I don't know what I'd do if I can upon someone being "raped/assaulted" in the park. What if they we a happy married couple just playing/acting out some strange sexual fantasy?

Armed robbery happening right before my eyes? I'd kill the robber without a second thought! How 'bout you?

Baron Max

 

[Light]

I don't know exactly. I suppose that it should be determined by a court of law. But the laws must, somehow, change to permit an individual to act decisively in what he sees as a threat to his life or his family's lives. As it is, there are few states in the USA which actually permit "self-defense" as a plea in, say, killing another person. Florida just recently passed such a law, and Texas also has provisions for "self-defense". Many states' laws actually forbid one to protect himself and it's a felony to do so!!

I agree with you that it's not such a simple task and I think that it would have to be settled in the courts. I know of no legitimate way of writing something like that into a law ...it's just too complex. Florida has tried it with the new "Castle Doctrine" which has yet to be tested in court.

But, think about it, .....how can the police protect us? Oh, they might, MIGHT, be able to catch the man who raped and killed your wife and daughter, but is that all you want? Are you satisfied to "allow" that to happen to your family under the existing legal system of police and courts?

My personal opinion is that if EVERYONE carried a handgun (and knew how to use it!), we'd have a helluva lot LESS crime than we do now. Few criminals would be willing to take such a chance for something like a few dollars that's in someone's pocket! Criminals might be mean and nasty, but most of 'em ain't totally stupid! As it is now, most criminals know that you, the individual, ain't got a gun nor do you know how to use it ....they prey upon the weak. Criminals do NOT prey upon the strong or the well-armed.

Where do we draw the line? I would have to say ...immenient threat of ones life or property. I'm hesitant to include the protection of others???? I don't know what I'd do if I can upon someone being "raped/assaulted" in the park. What if they we a happy married couple just playing/acting out some strange sexual fantasy?

Armed robbery happening right before my eyes? I'd kill the robber without a second thought! How 'bout you?

Baron Max

To all the above: I agree.

To the last paragraph: Without hesitation!

 

[Jenyar]

My personal opinion is that if EVERYONE carried a handgun (and knew how to use it!), we'd have a helluva lot LESS crime than we do now.

Or there will be more gunfights... There will always be "attackers" and "defenders", but the bullets flying between them can all kill.

And if revenge is condoned in any form, the state practically cedes its ministration of justice to individuals. That's why kangaroo courts, though ideal in principle (and even put to great effect in places like Rwanda), can't really be justified for the long term.

 

[Baron Max]

Or there will be more gunfights... There will always be "attackers" and "defenders", but the bullets flying between them can all kill.

If that were so, then why is it not happening in states that have a permit to carry concealed handguns? If your "assumptions" had any merit, those states' murder/kill rate would have soared ...why didn't it? And more to the point, why did those states actually experience a reduction in personal crime and murder?

And nowhere have I said or implied that "revenge" would be legal!!

Perhaps you should do some investigation and research prior to making such statements?

Baron Max

 

[john smith]

Please, please ...accept my apology. Now excuse me while I go kick myself in the ass a few times.

Baron Max

Only Kick???