Responsibility of the Theist

superluminal

superluminal

I am MalcomR
Valued Senior Member
Q: Do theists/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all perceive as reality? Given that they, in most cases:

a) Make positive claims for the real existence of their god(s)

b) Feel it is a moral imperative to 'spread the word'

And, failing this, and given the awesome implications of their claims, do they deserve any respect whatsoever?

For example:
--------------------------------------
"My god exists"

"Prove your god to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of faith/is too metaphysically deep for the 'untrained' to comprehend"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."
--------------------------------------

Sort of like that. I'm getting very tired of tolerance toward something that is at once claimed to be foundational to our universe, and also beyond observation or verification by rational people.

It's actually becoming decidedly offensive to me. Here and in 'real-life'.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
 
superluminal said:
Q: Do theists/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all perceive as reality? Given that they, in most cases:

a) Make positive claims for the real existence of their god(s)

b) Feel it is a moral imperative to 'spread the word'
Click to expand...
I don't think most theists feel it is a moral imperative to spread the word. At least I don't see this happening. I mean Jehovah's Witnesses seem pretty driven. But most theists seem content to let others handle marketing.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
Click to expand...
I cannot remember the last time a theist came up to me and tried to convince me of God's existence. In fact the only ones who did this were Jehovah's Witnesses. Scientologists also and a few non-Abrahamic groups, but we never got down to beliefs, I just got invited to meetings.

Perhaps you are being confronted all the time. I don't know. But hell, even the JW's were polite and when I made it clear I would not become one, they never came back.

Now telephone companies and cellphone services and internet service companies, they seem to think they own my soul

24/7.

anyway, simply changing the subject, or walking away would most likely be very effective - if challenge in public somewhere.
 
superluminal said:
Q: Do theists/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all perceive as reality? Given that they, in most cases:

a) Make positive claims for the real existence of their god(s)

b) Feel it is a moral imperative to 'spread the word'

And, failing this, and given the awesome implications of their claims, do they deserve any respect whatsoever?

For example:
--------------------------------------
"My god exists"

"Prove your god to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of faith/is too metaphysically deep for the 'untrained' to comprehend"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."
--------------------------------------

Sort of like that. I'm getting very tired of tolerance toward something that is at once claimed to be foundational to our universe, and also beyond observation or verification by rational people.

It's actually becoming decidedly offensive to me. Here and in 'real-life'.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
Click to expand...
try this
"the president exists in the white house "

"Prove it to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of you falling in line with the rules and regs of admittance to the white house"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."

:shrug:
 
all theists, yes even atheists, are basing their decision on faith, even believing that there is no god is a faith based system because there is no way to prove god doesn't exist.
 
superluminal said:
I'm getting very tired of tolerance toward something that is at once claimed to be foundational to our universe, and also beyond observation or verification by rational people.

It's actually becoming decidedly offensive to me. Here and in 'real-life'.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
Click to expand...

Oh, you poor thing. The Universe keeps doing those nasty things to you, doesn't it, like hosting people and texts that you do not like, and you are such a rational person!
Bad bad Universe! It should really get a grip and finally behave as rational people like yourself want it to behave!

I think you really should turn to the Ruler of the Universe to finally put the Universe in order so that rational people like yourself will not be disturbed.


:eek:
 
siledre said:
all theists, yes even atheists, are basing their decision on faith, even believing that there is no god is a faith based system because there is no way to prove god doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

i like that answer,

Kudos... :)


but for reals, sense god did not invent it all, then what caused anything?
 
superluminal said:
Q: Do theists/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all perceive as reality? Given that they, in most cases:

a) Make positive claims for the real existence of their god(s)

b) Feel it is a moral imperative to 'spread the word'

And, failing this, and given the awesome implications of their claims, do they deserve any respect whatsoever?

For example:
--------------------------------------
"My god exists"

"Prove your god to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of faith/is too metaphysically deep for the 'untrained' to comprehend"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."
--------------------------------------

Sort of like that. I'm getting very tired of tolerance toward something that is at once claimed to be foundational to our universe, and also beyond observation or verification by rational people.

It's actually becoming decidedly offensive to me. Here and in 'real-life'.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
Click to expand...

It must be really depressing spending your life as an Anti.

Having the focus of your life to be against something is like having a cup half empty life.

Me i am Pro God :) My Life is a cup half full life.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
It must be really depressing spending your life as an Anti.

Having the focus of your life to be against something is like having a cup half empty life.

Me i am Pro God :) My Life is a cup half full life.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Click to expand...

Even more liberating and satisfying is the ability to shrug your shoulders and candidly admit that no one on this planet truly knows what lies beyond the physical realm, if there even is such a beyond. For your part, the best you can do is say you got your beliefs out of a book that was presented to you by fallible human beings.
 
lightgigantic said:
try this
"the president exists in the white house "

"Prove it to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of you falling in line with the rules and regs of admittance to the white house"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."
Click to expand...
I do admire your tenacity with logically fallacious analogies... you never seem to tire of them.
 
CptBork said:
... For your part, the best you can do is say you got your beliefs out of a book that was presented to you by fallible human beings.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. But, it would certainly not be surprizing that is the best YOU can do.
 
lightgigantic said:
try this
"the president exists in the white house "

"Prove it to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of you falling in line with the rules and regs of admittance to the white house"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."

:shrug:
Click to expand...

that is a complete fail argument..
1. we can prove the president exsists
2. we can prove that he left the whitehouse even tho we didnt see him..
3. even though you didnt see him one of his secret service men did see him
 
superluminal said:
Q: Do theists/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all perceive as reality? Given that they, in most cases:

a) Make positive claims for the real existence of their god(s)

b) Feel it is a moral imperative to 'spread the word'

And, failing this, and given the awesome implications of their claims, do they deserve any respect whatsoever?

For example:
--------------------------------------
"My god exists"

"Prove your god to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of faith/is too metaphysically deep for the 'untrained' to comprehend"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."
--------------------------------------

Sort of like that. I'm getting very tired of tolerance toward something that is at once claimed to be foundational to our universe, and also beyond observation or verification by rational people.

It's actually becoming decidedly offensive to me. Here and in 'real-life'.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
Click to expand...


As a theist (muslim), I have no problems with my faith being ridiculed by the non-theists. I used to think that atheists (especially westerners) are always anti-islam, but then I observed that the atheists basically questioning whatever religions. There is not so much freedom to do so in my home country (Indonesia), it is a well-known fact that saying you don't believe in God, especially in written state, can get you in jail (it's prohibited by constitution). There were some influential leaders jailed because questioning religions or God. Therefore, to see atheists ridiculing or criticizing my religion is kinda fresh air to me, because it makes me think and examining my belief (I consider it as a feedback). However, I HAVE problem if I am treated differently because of my faith. For example, if because I am a muslim I am not allowed to enter certain places like restaurants. But if that should happened, I probably just walk away and wish the place a bad bad karma, hehe.
 
sifreak21 said:
that is a complete fail argument..
1. we can prove the president exsists
2. we can prove that he left the whitehouse even tho we didnt see him..
3. even though you didnt see him one of his secret service men did see him
Click to expand...

Why couldn't we do that with God?
 
sifreak21 said:
that is a complete fail argument..
1. we can prove the president exsists
Click to expand...
he comes to your place for dinner regularly, does he?
2. we can prove that he left the whitehouse even tho we didnt see him..
3. even though you didnt see him one of his secret service men did see him
Click to expand...
oh by having recourse to accepting the authority of others?
I'm one of those super rational guys who only accepts what is provable to their senses and am way beyond blindly believing the hearsay of others, unlike you and your ilk.
Please, may I remind you that this is a science forum.
:eek:
 
Photizo said:
Incorrect. But, it would certainly not be surprizing that is the best YOU can do.
Click to expand...

Incorrect based on what? Incorrect because that book which was given to you by fallible humans disagrees with my statement that your faith is based on a book given to you by fallible humans?
 
lightgigantic said:
standard false arguments require standard rebuttals ol chum! ;)
Click to expand...
So you compound what you see as a false argument with a false analogy? Such a blatant self-announcement of your hypocritical approach is admirable in its honesty if somewhat lacking in worth.

And since your analogy is false/fallacious it hardly speaks well for your assessment of the original argument.
 
superluminal said:
Q: Do theists/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all perceive as reality? Given that they, in most cases:

a) Make positive claims for the real existence of their god(s)

b) Feel it is a moral imperative to 'spread the word'

And, failing this, and given the awesome implications of their claims, do they deserve any respect whatsoever?

For example:
--------------------------------------
"My god exists"

"Prove your god to me"

"I can't, because it's a matter of faith/is too metaphysically deep for the 'untrained' to comprehend"

"Ok then. You are full of shit and deserve to be derided."
--------------------------------------

Sort of like that. I'm getting very tired of tolerance toward something that is at once claimed to be foundational to our universe, and also beyond observation or verification by rational people.

It's actually becoming decidedly offensive to me. Here and in 'real-life'.

Lately I really want nothing much more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade.

What say ye?
Click to expand...


i say that this in not a very humble message, and that humility, in my experience, is what you need to experience god. experience is the true root of knowledge.

i have come to know god through experience, and i could share that with you if you wanted me to.

but i don't think you want me to do that.
 
Originally Posted by superlumimal
Q: Do theist/Believers have a responsibility to be clear and truthful about their beliefs and how they actually relate to what we all preceive as reality?
Click to expand...
No. The responsibility of a theist/believer should not be confused with the expectations of non-theists/believers. It either makes sense to you or it doesn't.
..., do they deserve any respect whatsoever?
Click to expand...
It depends on their domineer. There have been more than one theist that had earned my respect because they were able to acknowledge the separation between faith and reality. To believe is personal. To exist is collective.
Lately I really want nothing more than to shit all over their collective, self-serving parade. What say ye?
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with questioning an ideology. Questions lead to answers. Violence leads to more ideology.
 
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