Resentment towards inherited wealth

Almost anyone who had anything to say about the subjects descended into character assassination. The subject incurred an almost rabid hatred for anyone who had access to wealth they themselves didn't earn. Why is this? Why the resentment? The children of the wealthy are no more to blame for their wealth than the children of the poor for the poverty they are destined to experience. So why the hate?
Jealousy is one of the most powerful human emotions. Surely you've experienced it personally.

Unlike another of our Stone Age instincts, revenge, which is almost invariably a selfish, evil, irrational destructive force, jealously can be a positive force. If a person looks around and sees that those around him have more than he does, he may be motivated to work harder, get more education, or something like that, so that he can contribute more to civilization and receive a greater reward in return. Since civilization is built upon surplus production, this would be a very slight advantage to all of us, and if everybody did it, in aggregate we'd all be more prosperous.

However, no economic system has ever worked perfectly and some people always end up with more wealth than they have earned by their labor, while others end up with less. Modern Western democratic capitalism does a better job than any other system of managing the capital (another word for "surplus wealth") of a large heterogeneous society. The poverty rate in our larger countries is the lowest the world has ever seen, and even our definition of "poverty" (in America it includes a sturdy home, plumbing, electricity, heating, a refrigerator, a TV, a cell phone, a computer with internet access, a car, free schooling, basic medical care and adequate nutrition--for all but the people at the very bottom of the system, most of whom are there because they're too crazy to get a job but too smart to be captured by the authorities and remanded to institutional assistance--the ones who think they've beaten the system by hiding out at the very bottom of it) is greater prosperity than 99% of the earth's population could dream of before the Industrial Revolution.

Still people look around and see astonishing disparity in wealth and resent the success of those who have significantly more than they do. Even more, they resent the passing of that wealth to those people's children, who, in their estimation, have not earned it.

What they--and we--all need to understand is that the people who created that outstanding surplus wealth needed to be motivated to work that hard and take those risks. A large motivator is the ability to be able to pass it on to one's children. The parental instinct is just as strong as jealousy or revenge, but unlike those it is a uniformly positive emotion. People who enrich their country's economy by building railroads and factories, or by inventing new technologies, or by touching our hearts with their art, or by stirring our competitive feelings with their athletic prowess, have earned their income. If we think they're overpaid, well duh, when's the last time any of us thought someone much richer than us was underpaid? That's just the jealousy kicking in. Why don't I get paid as much for my songs as Lady Gaga gets for hers: it's not fair!

If you start making it impossible for people to pass their surplus wealth on to their children, what reason will they have to create it? Civilization will suffer without their productivity. Or worse, they'll find even better ways to cheat, and their role-modeling will cascade down to all of us and we'll all become just a little more dishonest.
Another interesting response was the habit to point out that the heirs were not exceptional in any way, that they were somehow wasteful and unenlightened, not very intelligent, without wisdom, a mind or a soul.
That's a stereotype. In order to be jealous we have to assume that these kids don't deserve the money. Children often take over the family business when their parent retires, and do a perfectly fine job of it. If we don't see quite so much of that happening today, it's because of the Paradigm Shift out of the Industrial Era into the Information Age. The corporation as we know it is an obsolete artifact and most of them have ceased being producers and instead are scavengers, salvaging the little value left in each other's rotting corpses before they too collapse.
Isn't the hatred and urge to dismiss them a simple function of envy born from the fact that you don't have to be special or exceptional, that wealth is simply an outcome of luck? I think thats what annoys people the most, that the lives of ease and privilege these young people represent is a product of nothing more than being born into the right family.
Indeed. In the days of the aristocracy the children of the wealthy had to undergo some dreadfully serious parenting, and the children of the common folk could laugh at them and insist that they were better off with less money and more freedom. Today the children of the wealthy are often wastrels, but again, that's because their parents' businesses are going bankrupt and there's nothing to prepare them for.
I found the dilemma of the Vanderbilt heir to be quite telling, his awareness that all the accomplishments ascribed to his family had nothing to do with him, that they were built by people he didn't even know, the feeling that they have to justify themselves. But why do they have to justify themselves to anyone?
Civilization wouldn't last two weeks if we all didn't have a basic sense of fairness in our hearts. Every day we stifle urges which would cause grief to others, because we know they're doing the same for us and in aggregate we're all better off than we were in the Stone Age, when every extended family unit distrusted all the others. These kids have the same sense of fairness we do, and they feel guilty for not paying their way. It's that simple.

I worked for a government agency for many, many years, and geeze there is nobody in America who contributes less to the economy than the civil "service" sector. We all worked hard, but we couldn't get anything accomplished. We were paid well and we had nearly unbreakable job security, so we were grateful for that, but deep down inside we felt that we were cheating, that we were being unfair to the taxpayers who were paying our salaries. Everyone had a different way of dealing with that feeling: alcohol, drugs, putting in 20 hours a week at a charity clinic, tutoring, or just getting all intellectual on us and insisting that it wasn't as bad as it looked.

My way was to leave. Sometimes the children of the rich do that too, it's just harder because the trust fund follows them around.
 
@Fraggle

Fraggle I don't see any sign that the 20 billion in assets by Conde Naste or Johnson & Johnson are going bankrupt. If anything the doc shows that most of them are not wastrels unless you call becoming an artist or going to university a wastrel activity. I think that the Paris Hiltons are not representative of this group where many of them fear losing their inheritance by causing dissatisfaction in their parents. Indeed many stated doing something productive whatever it may be was a stipulation of their inheritance.

I agree with you that it would not be prudent to disallow for direct inheritance but I don't see how this statement is warranted "for all but the people at the very bottom of the system, most of whom are there because they're too crazy to get a job but too smart to be captured by the authorities and remanded to institutional assistance". Its not just an oversimplification of poverty in the US but its also an inaccurate description of poverty in the US.

If I had to compare the poverty in say Scandinavia, Germany or even the UK then the poor in the US are living in substandard conditions. You take care of your poor less than any other industrialized country and what care you do give is yes, substandard especially in terms of housing, education and health care. You are very disconnected if you think that poverty in the US includes "a sturdy home, plumbing, electricity, heating, a refrigerator, a TV, a cell phone, a computer with internet access, a car, free schooling, basic medical care and adequate nutrition." Completely disconnected.
 
Mostly though its just envy

We'd need to look into where/how envy gets its impetus.

It could be based on a conviction that the universe is an unfair place, not really fit to be lived in. Or that God hates one, this is why one is poor. The conviction or fear that one is inherently less than others somehow.
 
We'd need to look into where/how envy gets its impetus.

It could be based on a conviction that the universe is an unfair place, not really fit to be lived in. Or that God hates one, this is why one is poor. The conviction or fear that one is inherently less than others somehow.

Don't you think its more likely that the poor believe they are kept poor by the wealthy class system than any notion that god hates them? The backlash of the French revolution was not aimed at the universe.;)
 
There are things people say in their "official" statements, and then there are the things they say when aging, illness and death really have them in their grip.

The things people say when they are sick, or when something goes badly wrong could be indicative of the person's actual internal struggles.

One of my relatives, for example, seems to be a thoroughly rational person, an atheist.
But when he is sick, he swears and curses, life, the Universe and God.


(Besides: The aristoracy is part of the Universe, so attacking the aristoracy is attacking the Universe.)
(And according to some insider sources from some Christian churches, many people believe God hates them.)
 
I support inheritance but it should be taxed at a progressive rate, perhaps 0% up to 3 million, 50% up to 10 million, and 75% thereafter. This is to help prevent an economic aristocracy most of all, which is a danger to democracy.
 
I support inheritance but it should be taxed at a progressive rate, perhaps 0% up to 3 million, 50% up to 10 million, and 75% thereafter. This is to help prevent an economic aristocracy most of all, which is a danger to democracy.

How would you stop the very wealthy from moving their wealth elsewhere? That's what happened in Holland, they taxed the rich all the way to Belgium.
 
There is a documentary on inherited wealth called 'Born Rich' (it can be viewed online here http://www.documentarytube.com/born-rich-documentary).

The young heiresses all of whom will one day inherit billions of dollars are interviewed on their relationship to money and how the money alters their relationship to all those who do not have money.

Now I found this interesting because its obvious that growing up with money is like growing up in an alternate universe, they're experience in the world isolates them but what I found more intriguing was the response to the documentary.

Almost anyone who had anything to say about the subjects descended into character assassination. The subject incurred an almost rabid hatred for anyone who had access to wealth they themselves didn't earn. Why is this? Why the resentment? The children of the wealthy are no more to blame for their wealth than the children of the poor for the poverty they are destined to experience. So why the hate?

Another interesting response was the habit to point out that the heirs were not exceptional in any way, that they were somehow wasteful and unenlightened, not very intelligent, without wisdom, a mind or a soul. But why should they be any of these things? If affluence is a birthright as in these cases why do we expect the heirs to be any different from the average joe on the ground? Is money supposed to make them more exceptional?

There are enough of the unenlightened, wasteful and stupid among the unwashed masses and we do not expect anything more from them. Why do we expect more from the rich? Does money require responsibility and if so why should the poor be absolved of all responsibility?

Isn't the hatred and urge to dismiss them a simple function of envy born from the fact that you don't have to be special or exceptional, that wealth is simply an outcome of luck? I think thats what annoys people the most, that the lives of ease and privilege these young people represent is a product of nothing more than being born into the right family.

The responses to the documentary which I believe to be a sincere attempt makes the reticence of the heirs understandable. No wonder they make it a rule never to talk about money and isolate themselves in a world of those who are just like them. The mob in their envy would have them stripped and their wealth re-distributed so that no one can claim to be any closer to the sun.

I found the dilemma of the Vanderbilt heir to be quite telling, his awareness that all the accomplishments ascribed to his family had nothing to do with him, that they were built by people he didn't even know, the feeling that they have to justify themselves. But why do they have to justify themselves to anyone?

You sound like you got money. Yeah I bet you do or at least a portion of. You got a problem in your thinking. The way you call people unwashed. Does that mean poor people are unwashed and not deserving of fair compensation. Let the poor be poor and the rich richer. Life is a burden to the common person Miss Prickily . The burdens put on them are to heavy to bare and the rich will eventually tumble because of it. You better start watching T.V. for the poor are standing as we speak and as this civil unrest continues to unfold and spead like a wild fire remember what you said and then you can make your correction in attitude before your door gets knocked down by the restless poor people. I don't care if someone is rich. Personal choice That is what I always say. Right to choose!!!
 
How would you stop the very wealthy from moving their wealth elsewhere? That's what happened in Holland, they taxed the rich all the way to Belgium.
The world is small. There will be no place to hide any longer. Amalgamation!! Common people of the world Unite!!! !
 

How? You cannot stop people from moving themselves and their money and still call yourself a free state. This would only move to curb motivation towards making efforts that produce wealth or move the ambitious elsewhere.

@Me-Ki-Gal

"The world is small. There will be no place to hide any longer. Amalgamation!! Common people of the world Unite!!!"

The world is small and there are many nations that would love to have those with great wealth live and do business within their borders. A fair tax system will not see them packing up but one that fleeces them will and then you won't benefit at all from either their industry or their taxes. Then you're only satisfaction is that all stay poor together without any relief, just look at what happens in countries where there is no industry and no capital for industry.
 
Freedom doesn't mean the absence of the rule of law. If the wealthy move elsewhere, they have to know that no American citizen could inherent their money tax free. I think the idea that rich Americans will choose to be rich elsewhere just so they can give all their money to someone else when they are dead is excessively alarmist.

Or we could just tax inheritance as we do regular income, because that's what it is. Easy.
 
lucy said:
I don't agree that people fear those who inherit wealth because they feel under their thumb, I think the resentment comes more from feeling excluded from affluence.
Excluded from stuff, yep. Same as.

In my area, for example, inheritance of great wealth has led to increasing exclusion of the non-wealthy from access to lakeshore recreation - the family cabins are no longer affordable, in competition with the increasingly wealthy. The transition has happened in my lifetime.

We can see the eventual consequences in places like Jamaica, where swimming from a nice beach in the ocean is a privilege mostly reserved for the rich - the world rich, even, rather than the local folks.

A trivial example, maybe, but the grinding down of the peasants over generations is a familiar historical subject.

lucy said:
How would you stop the very wealthy from moving their wealth elsewhere? That's what happened in Holland,
And Holland remains a better place to live, for ordinary people, than Belgium. By most demographic measures, whatever Holland has been doing for the past few decades should be seriously considered by ordinary people everywhere. They are the tallest, healthiest, best educated, and all around most prosperous regular folks on the planet.
lucy said:
The world is small and there are many nations that would love to have those with great wealth live and do business within their borders. A fair tax system will not see them packing up but one that fleeces them will and then you won't benefit at all from either their industry or their taxes.
There are many nations to which teh wealthy have moved to avoid taxes - but these places do not seem to benefit much from their "industry".

It's almost as if allowing great piles of wealth to accumulate in the hands of heirs over generations, and the consequent stifling of opportunity and access to resources by everyone else, doesn't encourage "industry" at all. Is that mysterious to you?

Consider, then the median height and weight of the adult male peasants (soldiers recruited from the peasant class, chosen for their physical fitness) who stormed the Bastille, motivated by their "envy" of inherited wealth and power.

These peasants were not the poorest of the poor, btw - revolutions usually start from the middle and other working classes, who have morale and organization, and these men were professional soldiers fed and housed by the government up until the Revolution.

6o inches in height, 100 pounds in weight. That was a full grown young man in Paris, France, after a couple of centuries of allowing the accumulation of inherited wealth.
 
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. . . . I don't see how this statement is warranted "for all but the people at the very bottom of the system, most of whom are there because they're too crazy to get a job but too smart to be captured by the authorities and remanded to institutional assistance". Its not just an oversimplification of poverty in the US but its also an inaccurate description of poverty in the US. . . . . You are very disconnected if you think that poverty in the US includes "a sturdy home, plumbing, electricity, heating, a refrigerator, a TV, a cell phone, a computer with internet access, a car, free schooling, basic medical care and adequate nutrition."
My wife was a social worker for most of her career. She insists that the majority of the people who are genuinely destitute in America are either the ones who are just too stupid to game the system (an application for public assistance is practically an IQ test--"Let's see, what answer are they looking for here?"), or the crazies who would rather sleep free but hungry under a bridge than fed but confined in an institution.
 
If I were ruler of the world, it's would ONLY inheritance tax and nothing else. It just seems criminal to tax inheritance as they do now; money that has already been filtered through shit like Income tax/toll taxes/capital gains/or EVEN corporate taxes (which are at bullshit low levels - but still it's already TAXED!)...then take a shot of everything a person is left with and yes they wanted to give their kids a boost, many families survive on the inheritance because they are so fucked over in debt.

All for an inheritance tax based on capital shares...the money gained through slavin' and savin' - it just isn't right.
 
My wife was a social worker for most of her career. She insists that the majority of the people who are genuinely destitute in America are either the ones who are just too stupid to game the system (an application for public assistance is practically an IQ test--"Let's see, what answer are they looking for here?"), or the crazies who would rather sleep free but hungry under a bridge than fed but confined in an institution.
That would be mE . To stupid to Game the system . Yeah why Me so stupid . Ah Maybe I care about my children"s children"s children . People The system as we know it is in collapse. It will die a slow death . Gut shots always take a long time to kill the beast, but you know what they die. Consider this . Baby Boomers =Retired Population growth! Over all Growth coming to a stand still including population . Who are left to produce for the retired Boomers. Who will feed the system before it is broke.
 
It just seems criminal to tax inheritance as they do now; money that has already been filtered through shit like Income tax/toll taxes/capital gains/or EVEN corporate taxes (which are at bullshit low levels - but still it's already TAXED!)...then take a shot of everything a person is left with

That exact same argument applies to sales tax and VAT. Are those also immoral?

But it's not "taking a shot of everything a person is left with." The person who earned that money is necessarily already dead, if an inheritance tax is being applied. It's a tax on the heir - the guy getting a big pile of money without doing anything in particular. Seems perfectly fair to tax that income.
 
This is fascinating. On the one hand you have those who have no sympathy for the poor, they're poor because they're stupid and don't know how to 'work the system', and yet on the other hand the same people would take the accumulated private wealth of the affluent because they are not stupid and know how to work around the system and the reasoning is that it can all go to help those 'others', the poor, who are crazy, stupid and don't know how to work the system.:D

I will answer the rest of the posts later.
 
@Iceaura


I don't believe that affluence is simply a matter of having stuff or that there is envy towards the rich because of the things they have. I believe its more about their security, they are able to do what they want without worrying about money. If you come from a family that has spent generations buying nice cars, art and luxury homes its not so important for you as a descendent to accumulate those things since you have them, you've always had them and you're probably quite accustomed to them. I think what's more important is the experiences they are allowed to enjoy without worrying about money ie: travel & adventure, embarking on projects without worrying about the cost etc. The envy comes from watching people able to manifest their dreams without struggle or sacrifice.

So how would you do it exactly? Would the middle and upper middle class also not be allowed to pass on their wealth? For example would they be allowed to pass on land and home ownership that is worth more than when the grandparents owned it. What about the tidy sum that the grandparents acquired to help their grandchild go to law school? To ban inheritance for one would ban it for everyone. Also do you think you can do this and still consider yourself living in a free society , since you would not be free to do what you want with what you worked for?

Whether you consider Holland or Belgium a better place to live for ordinary people is really very much up for debate since they both have a high standard of living and social welfare services, the difference is that the Belgium doesn't gouge the wealthy and so having more of the rich in their country means a larger tax revenue. And since Holland is a stones throw away one can still keep a home there and enjoy the country without having to pay exorbitant taxes. As far as prosperity goes if you have money you can be educated, healthy and prosperous anywhere since you can afford to do it anywhere.

Iceaura: It's almost as if allowing great piles of wealth to accumulate in the hands of heirs over generations, and the consequent stifling of opportunity and access to resources by everyone else, doesn't encourage "industry" at all. Is that mysterious to you?

But if you look at the UK you have an aristocracy that still passes on wealth and land from one generation to another and yet I wouldn't think that the average person is stifled from opportunity and access to resources and the country isn't without its industry (same for holland). What you describe is more likely to happen in an undeveloped nation not a developed nation. Look at Switzerland and Lichtenstein, everyone has access to opportunity and resources and yet its the favored money havens for the affluent. I see no evidence that inherited wealth necessarily leads to complete disenfranchisement and exclusion of the lower classes.
 
But if you look at the UK you have an aristocracy that still passes on wealth and land from one generation to another and yet I wouldn't think that the average person is stifled from opportunity and access to resources and the country isn't without its industry (same for holland).

Of course, they also had like an entire century of civil war/revolution over the issue of the overbearing power of said aristocracy. See also: France, Russia, about 100 other countries.

Look at Switzerland and Lichtenstein, everyone has access to opportunity and resources and yet its the favored money havens for the affluent. I see no evidence that inherited wealth necessarily leads to complete disenfranchisement and exclusion of the lower classes.

Your examples are not good ones, for that point. Switzerland and Lichtenstein have so completely disenfranchised and excluded the lower classes that they barely even exist in those societies. If you aren't a rich heir or ultra-high-income type, you generally do not live in either of those countries in the first place. How could you? The cost of food alone would sink you (Swiss food prices are really, really high - a Big Mac value meal costs something like $20 USD over there, for comparison).

This all leads to the classic joke about class in Switerland:
Q: How do you tell the rich Swissman from the poor Swissman?
A: The poor Swissman washes his Mercedes himself.
 
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