Religious Choice

NMSquirrel said:
keep in mind neverfly that my statement is pretty generic..(ie one reason or another)

but yes..
i believe the emotional state of being of a person is directly related to how they believe in god..
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Such being the case, do you then conclude that many or even most non believers do not believe in God because they are angry at him?
 
SilentLi89 said:
When do you believe a child is old enough to make a firm decision about what religion they choose to follow? A few years ago my younger brother declared that he was an atheist, I personally believe one can become an atheist at any age because you can stop or not believe in God at any age, but many people said that my brother was too young to really be an atheist. They said he was too young to know what he was talking about. That may be true in some cases with young children, but I was curious of what other people thought.
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Heh. For me the question is "At what age are you too old to actually believe a specific religion got it right?"
 
NMSquirrel said:
believing in god is not a state of being..it is a choice we make and as such is susceptible to our state of being at any given moment..too many ppl have turned their backs on god just cause they were mad at him for one reason or another..
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Really? I think I disagree. I don't think you can choose to believe or disbelieve something. Meaning you can't will yourself to believe in something you have already determined does not exist, or vice versa. What you do about that belief or lack there of is of course your choosing.
 
SilentLi89 said:
Really? I think I disagree. I don't think you can choose to believe or disbelieve something. Meaning you can't will yourself to believe in something you have already determined does not exist, or vice versa. What you do about that belief or lack there of is of course your choosing.
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geeser:
don't know how to reply to your post..

silent:
what you do about your belief is also a choice, i agree there.
but a person cannot just state that they believe in god then the rest of their life lines up with that belief.

i am trying to think of some good examples,
if you have kids its easier to understand..ie when your kid messes up you believe he will turn out ok regardless..
im not sure how to explain it..but i do know (personal experience)
that belief is a decision, one that gets tested all the time..one has to actively maintain a belief for it to have any power,

i guess to fully understand one has to contemplate faith,confidence,evidence,and other factors that enter into the god discussion..

i will still maintain that belief is not a state of being.
 
PsychoTropicPuppy said:
The day it doesn't do something just because everyone else is doing it.
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So... 60ish? Of course being an atheist in a religious community is like being gay in the bible belt midwest (I guess that's the same community). It takes courage to state how you feel. You would have to be above peer pressure to say so in the first place.

I think age is irrelevant, when the person/child can give you (what you consider) well thought out reasons for why they believe or don't believe then they have thought about their convictions enough to know how they feel.
 
SilentLi89 said:
Really? I think I disagree. I don't think you can choose to believe or disbelieve something. Meaning you can't will yourself to believe in something you have already determined does not exist, or vice versa. What you do about that belief or lack there of is of course your choosing.
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I disagree with you, as well.

I see where you're coming from.

But even still, I had to choose to disbelieve in God at first because the habit of just acceptance that he was there was ingrained within me from early childhood.
It was not because, as NMSquirrel suggests, an anger toward God. In fact, it was painful as if I was going through a divorce...
It was due to not only the lack of evidence, but that the evidence present would strongly suggest that a Conspiracy was in place to not just hide Gods existence, but make it strongly appear as though he was absent as well.

That was just too irrational of a justification of belief for me. I could not lie to myself. So I let go of God (Or Santa or Paul Bunyan- what have you.)

But at first, it had to be a choice because it was Habit to simply accept that there was a divine creator.

Also, NMSquirrel makes reference to believing in a person- This is different from religious belief in some ways but the principle of it is about the same.
Believing in a person to succeed is a choice one makes and one many parents must make. This is not a divine belief for some, but a desire.

I can relate to it- I have a son. And no matter what evidence ever arises to convince me not to believe in him - I will ignore Logic when it comes to him.
I will Never Give Up On Him.

(Note: He's seven and as of yet has given me no reason to believe that I'll have such evidence arise- but hey.... You never know.)
 
Neverfly said:
I disagree with you, as well.

I see where you're coming from.

But even still, I had to choose to disbelieve in God at first because the habit of just acceptance that he was there was ingrained within me from early childhood.
It was not because, as NMSquirrel suggests, an anger toward God. In fact, it was painful as if I was going through a divorce...
It was due to not only the lack of evidence, but that the evidence present would strongly suggest that a Conspiracy was in place to not just hide Gods existence, but make it strongly appear as though he was absent as well.

That was just too irrational of a justification of belief for me. I could not lie to myself. So I let go of God (Or Santa or Paul Bunyan- what have you.)

But at first, it had to be a choice because it was Habit to simply accept that there was a divine creator.

Also, NMSquirrel makes reference to believing in a person- This is different from religious belief in some ways but the principle of it is about the same.
Believing in a person to succeed is a choice one makes and one many parents must make. This is not a divine belief for some, but a desire.

I can relate to it- I have a son. And no matter what evidence ever arises to convince me not to believe in him - I will ignore Logic when it comes to him.
I will Never Give Up On Him.

(Note: He's seven and as of yet has given me no reason to believe that I'll have such evidence arise- but hey.... You never know.)
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To me a choice is when I actively make it and I can change my mind at the drop of a hat if I want to. With religion I don't think one can do that. Like being in love with someone (because you are essentially in love with an idea).
 
SilentLi89 said:
To me a choice is when I actively make it and I can change my mind at the drop of a hat if I want to. With religion I don't think one can do that. Like being in love with someone (because you are essentially in love with an idea).
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Good point, actually.
I cannot change my mind about my lack of belief in a God.

And I suppose I can't change my mind about my son, either. But even so, I see it as a choice.

I'm reminded of a scene from "Firefly" - The Train Job.

Sheriff Bourne has caught Mal returning stolen medicine to a plague-stricken town:
Sheriff Bourne: You were truthful back in town. These are tough times. A man can get a job. He might not look too close at what that job is. But a man learns all the details of a situation like ours... well... then he has a choice.
Mal: I don't believe he does.
 
NMSquirrel said:
geeser:
don't know how to reply to your post..
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See below.
Neverfly said:
NMSquirrel said:
too many ppl have turned their backs on god just cause they were mad at him for one reason or another.
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Such being the case, do you then conclude that many or even most non believers do not believe in God because they are angry at him?
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I wish theist would think before they speak, your phrase in bold, is the most inanely stupid comment ever made, it's like saying "I lack any belief in Santa, so I hate Santa" or "I hate the tooth fairy, so I'm not going to believe in it" do you see how stupid that appears. Hence why I posted up the image, to try to get it across to you that it is infantile to think that people who have no belief in your god(that means the have no belief it exists), must hate him. they first need to think he exists to hate him.
They can't come to non-belief via hatred, because they would still believe.
They come to non-belief via critical thinking using their sense, reason, and intellect.
 
60ish? No. If a kid is able to think independently without having the urge to do what's in vogue just because it's in vogue already at the age of 2 it most definitely is capable to choose freely.
 
when you are two and someone tells you the sky is blue you believe them and dont question it.
when someone tells you god is real etc you also believe it.its not really a choice thing.
The sex age is 16. it is 16 because it is believed that before this you are not old enough to make a good or imformed decisison.
Why should religion be any different?
i know that when i believed in god it sure wasnt an informed decision i made, it was actually because untill i was about 12 nobody bothered told me there were people out there who didnt believe in god and that you didnt actually have to follow a religion.
 
i believe the emotional state of being of a person is directly related to how they believe in god..
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Or don't believe as well. You do not need a "God" to be emotionally stable as many Buddhists, atheists and other non believers will show you.
 
Adstar said:
Why do you even want a human adults perspective on this?

Can a human give you a spot on accurate measure?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Because I am interested in the perspectives of humans, not God's. This is more to do with social psycho development than religion, I guess.
 
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