Religion

[sideshowbob]

Unicorns, and even Santa Claus are not as fundamentally believable as God.

On the contrary, the farther something is from what we know to be true, the LESS believable it is. Unicorns are quite believable. Santa Claus is somewhat believable, even if some of his accomplishments are suspect.

God, on the other hand, is often defined by believers as something that is practically inconceivable.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Well, as I'm sure you know, the word god is an extremely loaded word and has a lot of baggage and religious dogma attached to it. My answer would be yes, but not in the way that most others would. I believe in all things, in everything. For me god is all things. But if I tell someone I believe in all things they would most likely not understand, so to make things easy I just say that "yes, I believe in god" regardless of how they interpret it.

Considering that I believe in everything then I must also believe in nothing or else I could not believe in everything. Although I am still quite bound by many beliefs that are not religious in nature, I have no interest in being attached or imprisoned by any belief. I can very easily believe in one thing today and believe in it's totally opposite the next if I choose. One becomes enslaved or imprisoned by a belief if they are unable or incapable of believing in it's opposite. If I wanted I could be an Atheist today, or a Christian tomorrow, or even a Satan worshiping Christian the next. Also I have no judgement or bias for or against anyone else's beliefs. I could just as easily hang out with a Satan worshiper as I could a Christian, or a Muslim, or an Atheist, or whatever. If they want to discuss their beliefs, then I don't have a problem with that either, as like I said I believe in everything, so for me whatever they believe is neither right nor wrong.

So, in short, what you're saying is that you haven't bothered to inform yourself about anything.
You're not interested in facts, nor in what can be shown to be true (or even valid), and that you'd rather stick with some sort of utterly uninformed lack of intellectual commitment/ integrity.

Considering that I believe in everything then I must also believe in nothing

This makes no sense.

 

[ForrestDean]

So, in short, what you're saying is that you haven't bothered to inform yourself about anything.
You're not interested in facts, nor in what can be shown to be true (or even valid), and that you'd rather stick with some sort of utterly uninformed lack of intellectual commitment/ integrity.

Whenever I feel it's appropriate. But other than that... should I? Is this a requirement?

This makes no sense.

Then it makes no sense.

 

[timojin]

On the contrary, the farther something is from what we know to be true, the LESS believable it is. Unicorns are quite believable. Santa Claus is somewhat believable, even if some of his accomplishments are suspect.

God, on the other hand, is often defined by believers as something that is practically inconceivable.

Why not He created you and me The fact that you and I are here we are a product of His work

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Why not He created you and me The fact that you and I are here we are a product of His work

Well you can't argue against that but there are those of us who do not believe what you say has any factual basis.
There is a better case that Santa is real but that is just another story humans made up to make kids behave.
Alex

 

[timojin]

Well you can't argue against that but there are those of us who do not believe what you say has any factual basis.
There is a better case that Santa is real but that is just another story humans made up to make kids behave.
Alex

Alex , there is no problem , there are those created and those who are descendant of Adam

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Alex , there is no problem , there are those created and those who are descendant of Adam

I can't argue with that.
You seem like a decent man and we just have different beliefs.
You have had good experience with religion whereas I find the religious folk in my life do not live by what they preach and so I can only go on my sad experience.

I have read the bible (King James) and find many things that I don't find reflect a God but do reflect man's view.

As I have said before no one I have met who says they believe have read the bible and that suggests to me they are hypocrites.

If you take the time line from the bible you get a universe that is a mere 6000 years old and that does not line up with reality.

Religion is behind many good deeds I believe but is also responsible for many very bad things.

I like my approach because it enables me to accept that it is me who is responsible for my deeds I do not have to ask God why this or that happened to me but always look to how my input has guided final outcomes.

I could not imagine you could change your beliefs and I hope you can see how mine work for me.

But I find it impossible to accept we came from ancestors who were created, as set out in the bible, some 6000 years ago.

Not when there is, what seems, good evidence of many humans walking the planet well before 6000 years.

To accept a 6000 year time line would mean one would have to reject more science than I could cite.

I think honesty is important not only when dealing with others but particularly with oneself and honestly I can not believe there is a God who created the universe and cares about humans more than the poor creatures we are given dominion over.

I say such a belief, that God Cates about us, is attributable to man's arrogance.

Then there is the suffering, the inequity, the cruelty and the horrible war and killing...much of these things are a direct result of religion.

If I were God I would not stand by whilst a child is hurt, a women is beaten or abused, whilst someone starves whilst others indulge gluttony, and well I would not have war..there are so many things that just are wrong that a God should fix.

I spent hours on the phone talking to machines to get a problem fixed on my phone with no result but finally when I got to speak to a human they fixed my problem in under a minute.

You could think that if a god could step in our problems could be fixed faster than the human fixed my phone problem.

A farmer would never leave his flock or herd unattended so why are we left unattended... There either is no farmer caring for us or he is a negligent farmer either way I could not follow or believe in something so uncaring and cruel.

And JC tells us that's what we should do...be kind treat your fellow man with respect etc.

Sorry I rant yet again ... Have a nice day.
Alex

 

[timojin]

I can't argue with that.
You seem like a decent man and we just have different beliefs.
You have had good experience with religion whereas I find the religious folk in my life do not live by what they preach and so I can only go on my sad experience.

I have read the bible (King James) and find many things that I don't find reflect a God but do reflect man's view.

As I have said before no one I have met who says they believe have read the bible and that suggests to me they are hypocrites.

If you take the time line from the bible you get a universe that is a mere 6000 years old and that does not line up with reality.

Religion is behind many good deeds I believe but is also responsible for many very bad things.

I like my approach because it enables me to accept that it is me who is responsible for my deeds I do not have to ask God why this or that happened to me but always look to how my input has guided final outcomes.

I could not imagine you could change your beliefs and I hope you can see how mine work for me.

But I find it impossible to accept we came from ancestors who were created, as set out in the bible, some 6000 years ago.

Not when there is, what seems, good evidence of many humans walking the planet well before 6000 years.

To accept a 6000 year time line would mean one would have to reject more science than I could cite.

I think honesty is important not only when dealing with others but particularly with oneself and honestly I can not believe there is a God who created the universe and cares about humans more than the poor creatures we are given dominion over.

I say such a belief, that God Cates about us, is attributable to man's arrogance.

Then there is the suffering, the inequity, the cruelty and the horrible war and killing...much of these things are a direct result of religion.

If I were God I would not stand by whilst a child is hurt, a women is beaten or abused, whilst someone starves whilst others indulge gluttony, and well I would not have war..there are so many things that just are wrong that a God should fix.

I spent hours on the phone talking to machines to get a problem fixed on my phone with no result but finally when I got to speak to a human they fixed my problem in under a minute.

You could think that if a god could step in our problems could be fixed faster than the human fixed my phone problem.

A farmer would never leave his flock or herd unattended so why are we left unattended... There either is no farmer caring for us or he is a negligent farmer either way I could not follow or believe in something so uncaring and cruel.

And JC tells us that's what we should do...be kind treat your fellow man with respect etc.

Sorry I rant yet again ... Have a nice day.
Alex

Alex . I think of my self I am a pawn on a chess board game and there are two players, and so at a given position or time I am to be sacrificed for a better good. This how I see good or evil in the world

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Alex . I think of my self I am a pawn on a chess board game and there are two players, and so at a given position or time I am to be sacrificed for a better good. This how I see good or evil in the world

That's an interesting way to see things Timojin thank you for sharing your approach with me.
Moreover thank you for the way you have taken my rants.
I know I am doing it and that I would be best staying silent.
But I do go on I see it at least.
Again thank you for being decent.
Alex

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Alex . I think of my self I am a pawn on a chess board game and there are two players, and so at a given position or time I am to be sacrificed for a better good. This how I see good or evil in the world

Me, I'm the Queen.

And agnostic,

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I think of my self I am a pawn on a chess board game and there are two players, and so at a given position or time I am to be sacrificed for a better good. This how I see good or evil in the world

Ok... but what grater good coud come from a child bein raped an murdered.???

 

[James R]

I believe in life. Hope and my religion are one.
EDIT: Religion and faith instill pacifism.

What about the religion and faith that members of, say, Islamic State, have? I don't see much pacifism there.

 

[James R]

ForrestDean:

Well, as I'm sure you know, the word god is an extremely loaded word and has a lot of baggage and religious dogma attached to it. My answer would be yes, but not in the way that most others would. I believe in all things, in everything. For me god is all things. But if I tell someone I believe in all things they would most likely not understand, so to make things easy I just say that "yes, I believe in god" regardless of how they interpret it.

A person who believes god is all things is called a pantheist. A pantheist makes no distinction between the universe and God. That sounds like it describes you. Am I right?

Considering that I believe in everything then I must also believe in nothing or else I could not believe in everything.

You want to tie yourself in semantic knots. Ok then. Tell me what is it about nothing that you believe, exactly. Or, tell me what your belief in nothing entails in your life, specifically.

Although I am still quite bound by many beliefs that are not religious in nature, I have no interest in being attached or imprisoned by any belief. I can very easily believe in one thing today and believe in it's totally opposite the next if I choose. One becomes enslaved or imprisoned by a belief if they are unable or incapable of believing in it's opposite. If I wanted I could be an Atheist today, or a Christian tomorrow, or even a Satan worshiping Christian the next. Also I have no judgement or bias for or against anyone else's beliefs. I could just as easily hang out with a Satan worshiper as I could a Christian, or a Muslim, or an Atheist, or whatever. If they want to discuss their beliefs, then I don't have a problem with that either, as like I said I believe in everything, so for me whatever they believe is neither right nor wrong.

To me, it just sounds like you don't want to commit to anything, or you're unable to make up your mind about things. On the other hand, I'm fairly confident that if I scratched the surface of your claims to hold no opinions on anything, I'd quickly find that you do, in fact, believe in lots of things, and you don't believe in other things.

Do you feel like it makes you an enigma to others to claim that you have no set beliefs? Does it make you feel freer? Are you sure that's not just a comforting illusion you're creating for yourself there?

 

[PhysBang]

It is nothing wrong wit you guys. For my Atheists are like grinding stone for knives to believers, Discussing with atheists make my sharper

Those sentences are a great demonstration.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Those sentences are a great demonstration.

For the stone doth maketh the dull knife sharp and doth holdeth the door open to let in the clean air.
For the stone is strong and shall not be harmed even if it be wrapped in the paper. And the stone shall break the scissors lest the paper be cut.
Alex

 

[sculptor]

....

God, on the other hand, is often defined by believers as something that is practically inconceivable.

I don't think I'd use the concept "defined".

 

[kx000]

What about the religion and faith that members of, say, Islamic State, have? I don't see much pacifism there.

They should have to prove their belief just like a theory. The all mighty is passive, without you go numb of joy and become stupid.

 

[ForrestDean]

A person who believes god is all things is called a pantheist. A pantheist makes no distinction between the universe and God. That sounds like it describes you. Am I right?

Sounds good to me.

You want to tie yourself in semantic knots. Ok then. Tell me what is it about nothing that you believe, exactly. Or, tell me what your belief in nothing entails in your life, specifically.

Ahh well that's easy. Well, the concept is easy but the act is somewhat more challenging. It's really nothing more than the ability to just let go... of EVERYTHING. It's kind of like committing suicide but without actually killing the physical body. It's like taking a backward dive off a cliff and just free falling into nothingness.

To me, it just sounds like you don't want to commit attach yourself to anything, or you're unable to make up your mind about things.

That would be correct. I'd prefer to not be bound by anything. As far as making up my mind about things, well what I decide is what I decide. There are no right or wrong decisions. It's just experience. I'm just here to play the game like everyone else.

On the other hand, I'm fairly confident that if I scratched the surface of your claims to hold no opinions on anything, I'd quickly find that you do, in fact, believe in lots of things, and you don't believe in other things.

Hehe, oh I do have an ego, and mastering it is still very much a work in progress, so I do have opinions from time to time, but nothing from which I can quickly change if it suits me or the situation. Yes, I do believe in lots of things, I believe in everything, but again it is not in my interest to be bound, enslaved, or imprisoned by any of them. I am of course still very much bound by many beliefs, but that is a work in progress that can take an entire life time.

Do you feel like it makes you an enigma to others to claim that you have no set beliefs?

I don't feel any lesser or greater than anyone else. Nothing is greater or lesser than anything or anyone else. All life is equal without exception. Like I said earlier I'm just here to play the game like everyone else. I'm just here for the ride with my hands up in the air. I'm just passing through. None of this is even real. The experience is real to be sure, but everything in it is nothing more than an illusion.

Does it make you feel freer?

Yes, it can be quite liberating.

Are you sure that's not just a comforting illusion you're creating for yourself there?

Well, it's comforting, but I wouldn't call it an illusion, more like a goal.

 

[sideshowbob]

Why not He created you and me The fact that you and I are here we are a product of His work

You didn't respond to what I said. I said that a God that you can't even define is LESS likely than a unicorn which is only slightly different from a known animal.

 

[sideshowbob]

I don't think I'd use the concept "defined".

I just told timojin that God can't even be defined, so I guess you're right.