Religion is Atheism

[Votorx]

Not in the literal sense but I made this thread to discuss the possibilities of atheism and religion being conceptually equal. Its pretty simple, both describe their creation through ideas and philosophy which are similar to each other. For instance, the classic big bang theory mirrors that of an omnipotent being. They both brought about the creation of the universe, along with its laws and constants, and both dwell on the improbable concept of no beginning and no end.

The confusion between atheism and religion arises from the association of science in atheism. Although athiests try to incorporate science into their ideal, its ineffective due to the fact that the creation of matter and time stand far outside our current knowledge of science. Therefore, as there's no real supporting evidence of a deity in religion, there's also no supporting evidence of it otherwise. But then there arises the unexplained phenomenons that both of them share. Such as the Red/Blue shifts of planets (big bang) and the accuracy of holy texts. Its incorporation into religion/atheism makes it a unique phenomena, even though alone it proves no special than the paths of gravity and ancient history recording or story telling.

The idea is, athiesm and religion have made no advances on each other do to the fact that they are the same thing. I personally believe that religion has more followers because any thoughts otherwise didn't really arise till the renaissance.

So, I'll add more if anyones interested in discussing this

 

[paulfr]

You will need to be more clear.
Religion, all agree, is the belief in one or more Gods [with a diversity in the concept of God].
Atheism is the denial of the existence of such Gods.

A is B is equivlant to A = B and means they are the same.
Not possible if my definitions are correct.

Do you mean they have some things in common ?
OK .... what are those things ?

 

[w1z4rd]

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

 

[spidergoat]

I agree but for different reasons. Religion and atheism are alike in that one can have no conception of God. Any idea we have is a drop in the ocean compared to the real thing, therefore a believer can only believe in a symbol. This makes any deeply religious person with no idealized image of God identical to an atheist, also with no idealized image of a creator.

 

[one_raven]

Atheists reject the idea of God because they have no imagination.
Theists reject the ideas of Evolution and abiogenesis because they have no imagination.

 

[TimeTraveler]

Not in the literal sense but I made this thread to discuss the possibilities of atheism and religion being conceptually equal. Its pretty simple, both describe their creation through ideas and philosophy which are similar to each other. For instance, the classic big bang theory mirrors that of an omnipotent being. They both brought about the creation of the universe, along with its laws and constants, and both dwell on the improbable concept of no beginning and no end.

The confusion between atheism and religion arises from the association of science in atheism. Although athiests try to incorporate science into their ideal, its ineffective due to the fact that the creation of matter and time stand far outside our current knowledge of science. Therefore, as there's no real supporting evidence of a deity in religion, there's also no supporting evidence of it otherwise. But then there arises the unexplained phenomenons that both of them share. Such as the Red/Blue shifts of planets (big bang) and the accuracy of holy texts. Its incorporation into religion/atheism makes it a unique phenomena, even though alone it proves no special than the paths of gravity and ancient history recording or story telling.

The idea is, athiesm and religion have made no advances on each other do to the fact that they are the same thing. I personally believe that religion has more followers because any thoughts otherwise didn't really arise till the renaissance.

So, I'll add more if anyones interested in discussing this

Athiesm is a religion too, it's never that science is seperate from religion, its a matter of which religion.

I think God is Good.
Athiests don't have a science of morality or ethics so until they develop one, I'm going to favor God.

 

[Lote-Tree]

Athiesm is a religion too

It can be. It can be a religion without God. But we have religions like this already and it is called Buddhism.

Some Atheist can be as irrational as Theist. But the difference between a theist and atheist is that Atheist at least requires at some critical thinking whereas religions require you to believe in it.

I think God is Good.

And others think God is love.

Athiests don't have a science of morality or ethics so until they develop one, I'm going to favor God.

Does God given morality make someone moral?
If so that morality is conditional?

 

[ashura]

Athiests don't have a science of morality or ethics so until they develop one, I'm going to favor God.

Morality is a social construct. There were rules against killing people and stuff before the three religions of the book.

 

[cato]

ohh my god (pardon the pun, its meant as a figure of speech)

you guys are [.....]. I will make another post momentarily as it will take time to tell you all how wrong you are.

 

[cato]

Not in the literal sense but I made this thread to discuss the possibilities of atheism and religion being conceptually equal.

or to start a flame war

For instance, the classic big bang theory mirrors that of an omnipotent being. They both brought about the creation of the universe, along with its laws and constants, and both dwell on the improbable concept of no beginning and no end

.
no, no, no! the big bang theory says nothing about the universe before about 10^-40 seconds after the universe would have been a single point, we cannot model the universe beyond a certain heat/density. therefore, an atheist that actually studies physics would make no statement about the "beginning" of the universe. however, the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is no atheist dogma, so we don't all have the same view. thus, any comparison you make is bullshit.

The confusion between atheism and religion arises from the association of science in atheism.

what confusion? I don't know what you are talking about.

Although athiests try to incorporate science into their ideal, its ineffective due to the fact that the creation of matter and time stand far outside our current knowledge of science.

ineffective at what? our knowledge, or lack there of, has no bearing on whether or not our belief structure resembles religion. it is a totally different thing. theists have a positive belief about things that cannot prove, test, or even observe. atheists (most that I know) do not posit existence on things that cannot be tested, or observed.

Therefore, as there's no real supporting evidence of a deity in religion, there's also no supporting evidence of it otherwise.

unlike theists, atheists (that I know) hold no positive belief in things that are not observable.

But then there arises the unexplained phenomenons that both of them share. Such as the Red/Blue shifts of planets (big bang) and the accuracy of holy texts.

what the hell are you talking about? red/blue shift is simply the alteration of the frequency of light due to relative motion of the transmitter/receiver, which is a very well understood phenomenon. the validity of holy texts is totally impossible to prove. you are way off in this argument.

Its incorporation into religion/atheism makes it a unique phenomena, even though alone it proves no special than the paths of gravity and ancient history recording or story telling.

red/blue shift is not part of atheism. maybe some atheists use it in arguments but, again, you somehow think that atheists are all alike.

The idea is, athiesm and religion have made no advances on each other do to the fact that they are the same thing.

no, they are not the same thing.
------ok, one [.......] taken care of------------------------------

Religion, all agree, is the belief in one or more Gods [with a diversity in the concept of God].
Atheism is the denial of the existence of such Gods.

no, that is only strong atheism. learn more about atheism before you post.
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Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

nice one =]
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Religion and atheism are alike in that one can have no conception of God. Any idea we have is a drop in the ocean compared to the real thing, therefore a believer can only believe in a symbol. This makes any deeply religious person with no idealized image of God identical to an atheist, also with no idealized image of a creator.

that makes no sense. atheists don't really try to imagine a god. theists do.
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Atheists reject the idea of God because they have no imagination.
Theists reject the ideas of Evolution and abiogenesis because they have no imagination.

I don't think it has much to do with imagination. you should somehow justify such crackpot statement.
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Athiesm is a religion too, it's never that science is seperate from religion, its a matter of which religion.

depends on what you call a religion. if you mean "a personal belief system" then yeah. if you mean the belief in a deity, then no. someone should deine religion before we start arguing about bullshit.
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thiests don't have a science (science? paging Dr Freud) of morality or ethics so until they develop one, I'm going to favor God.

OMFG, congrats, you are the biggest moron of the thread.
READ THIS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Atheism.2C_religion_and_morality
------------------godam, that was a rough one----------------------

 

[w1z4rd]

Athiests don't have a science of morality or ethics so until they develop one, I'm going to favor God.

Wow, you need the fear of damnation by an alpha-male sky god to keep you decent? Strange, so you are telling me without God you would be a child raping necrophiliac? That scares the hell outta me.

 

[paulfr]

Morality is a social construct

Morality has nothing to do with social systems.
It is about the rules/habits which guide an individual toward a good life.

Ethics is the province of social contracts.

 

[ashura]

Morality has nothing to do with social systems.
It is about the rules/habits which guide an individual toward a good life.

Ethics is the province of social contracts.

I meant to say societal construct, I think.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Wow, you need the fear of damnation by an alpha-male sky god to keep you decent? Strange, so you are telling me without God you would be a child raping necrophiliac? That scares the hell outta me.

That would make him elegible for the clergy.

 

[one_raven]

I don't think it has much to do with imagination. you should somehow justify such crackpot statement.

Perhaps if you weren't such a damned prick every time someone shared an idea that seemed to you, at least on the surface, to disagree with your point of view, I would be inclined to elaborate and we could actually have a discussion.
But we both know that's not going to happen, don't we?
Hey look at that, yet another thing that many atheists have in common with many theists!

You just continue being an ass, and I'll continue ignoring you.

Good day

 

[Nasor]

Not in the literal sense but I made this thread to discuss the possibilities of atheism and religion being conceptually equal.

Equal in what way? You need to be specific. Equal in their ability to cure the sick and heal the injured? Equal in their ability to make correct statements of empirical fact? Equal in their ability to provide people with a moral code? Equal in their ability to provide an explanation for the existence of space and time?

 

[(Q)]

The idea is, athiesm and religion have made no advances on each other do to the fact that they are the same thing. I personally believe that religion has more followers because any thoughts otherwise didn't really arise till the renaissance.

I would have thought that atheism naturally evolved from religion.

 

[cato]

Perhaps if you weren't such a damned prick every time someone shared an idea that seemed to you, at least on the surface, to disagree with your point of view, I would be inclined to elaborate and we could actually have a discussion.
But we both know that's not going to happen, don't we?
Hey look at that, yet another thing that many atheists have in common with many theists!

You just continue being an ass, and I'll continue ignoring you.

Good day

sorry, i was pissed off yesterday, and when I saw that obvious fallacies in the original poster's comments, I just went on a rampage =]

 

[nig]

i think religion and atheism are about the same. atheism has less ideals and this and that... but they both seek answers in a bizarre manner. they both over narrate mystery to the point of potential fallacy for some psychological need. is it the agnostics that are the real tough guys? i don't know, once you can make sense out of one thing, the whole universe must follow or we will be suspect of it and make up fairy tales about the mysteries that are unverifiable and demand adherence or we WILL KILL!?! sounds a bit weird to me. asses. but there i go again narrating and explaining it away. i need to. let me tell you more stories...

 

[nig]

the question is: is your question any different than religion and atheism or do you also need that comfort?

just because people can dream up questions doesn't mean there is an answer. the question, too, is a bullshit, synthetic way of constraining something wild out there that we only have transduced and mocked up relations (consciousness and all that) with. who really knows... its all just utilitous. i like that explanation. utility is the simplist story. crutch. crutch. like reoccur in dali's paintings. crutch. for comfort. and eventually just cause i want it. science is the itchiest, most paranoid religion of all i think.