Religion is all psychological (Jesus Exists)

[Votorx]

I believe the maker of the bible was infact Jesus but not in the sense he made it. There is no such thing as God, healing, miracles, Moses, Muhammad or whatever other phrophets there is believed to be. These religious books were made as a way of psychology. During bad times these books are referred to to bring a sense of security and contentment. This also allows others to lead a path of rightousness and forgiveness. The idea of a holy father constantly watching over them gives the people a sense of freedom and saftey as well. Without religion the whole world would lead down a path of anarchy. People would believe that they can do anything without worry about the consequences. They wouldn't care about what happens in the after life or how they are going to be judged, all they care for is what they want. So I suppose the maker of the bible is infact a savior since he kept the world from it's own inevitable destruction.

Think about the immense amount of things in this world which is affected directly or indirectly by religion. How do you think it would affect these decisions without religion?


Religion is false, but without it the world is doomed.

 

[Katazia]

Wow - some major errors in that.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Religion is false, but without it the world is doomed.
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M*W: I partly agree with you. Religions are false, therefore, those who believe in them are doomed.

 

[Votorx]

Wow - some major errors in that.

Wow - i enjoy your response, a quick statement with no supporting evidense. You sure showed me that i was wrong in everything I said.

 

[Votorx]

M*W: I partly agree with you. Religions are false, therefore, those who believe in them are doomed.

I don't understand how that would work out. Without religion the world would would have fallen into eternal darkness.

 

[Katazia]

And what errors would that be katazia?

That humanity is so stupid that it has to believe a fairy tale is true so it can have a sense of morality. Bullshit.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I don't understand how that would work out. Without religion the world would would have fallen into eternal darkness.

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M*W: I don't believe so. In fact, had religions never been created, I believe in the eternal goodness of the soul. After all, the kingdom of God is WITHIN. Religions teach that God is an old white bearded man, somewhere "out there" sitting on a cloud striking down sinners with lightening bolts. Religion is "the root of all evil" or the "opiate for the masses."

Religion is the CAUSE of eternal darkness!

 

[LostInThought7]

You are assuming that humanity is naturally evil, as the Bible states. How thankful we should be that the Bible solves a problem, considering it made up the problem. (humanity is evil....reproduction, pride, seeking to amass power, these are all naturally human, and should I say? naturally natural. All animals do it. It's called evolution. the ones that can't do it die out, the rest survive)

Humans are naturally "moral", too, in the "compared to other humans" sense. We, like wolves, are social beings, and we do better in groups. We look out for others, others look out for us.

Would the world be better off without religion? I don't know. Too many unknown variables, a guess from me would be just that: a guess. I do know that when a religion conflicts with your own sense of morals, to you, it is bad. Christianity to me is immoral....in many ways.

It seems "moral" to me to know truth and be in agony than to be decieved and happy. This may have something to do with: if someone was fighting an angry lion barehanded, they would fight their hardest to survive. They would be in an extremely fearful and painful condition, but that's what what fear and pain is for: to let the body know that it needs to change the situation. Someone who had a bear sneaking up on them, would be happy, but soon after would be dead. <this is all pretty lame, but whatever, I'm tired and it's late. it makes sense to me, in a small way

Katazia said it best. I take back everything I said and just nod at Katazia's statements.

 

[LostInThought7]

By the way, I'm an Athiest who tries to be moral. This decision was not in any way based on an afterlife, or what a power hungry tyrant might do to me later.

Quote>
Religion is the CAUSE of eternal darkness!

Ehhh...I'm not as sure as you are. Considering first, I don't belief that it is not possible for other religions to be true, and second, religion has, in some individual cases, made a good difference. Some people, it would seem, won't not lie/steal/murder/whatever without the threat of hell.

 

[Katazia]

Votorx,

Wow - i enjoy your response, a quick statement with no supporting evidense. You sure showed me that i was wrong in everything I said.

You edited and changed your post I see. Very confusing.

Some things are so obvious that they don't need to be explained. You'll figure it out I suspect.

Kat

 

[Greco]

People aren't moral because of religion, they are moral because we have laws that govern our behavior. If those laws are broken then there are consequences. There are all kinds of laws

1.Laws imposed by the state

2.Laws of nature

3.Tribal taboos

4. Religious commandments(dogma,social restrictions)

Laws of nature can not be broken.
Laws imposed by the state can be broken and if caught punished.
Tribal taboos can be broken but at the risk of expulsion from the tribe.

Religious commandments can be broken at the peril of loosing one's soul unless the law breaker atones and the slate is wiped clean.(A religious man is more likely to break the law and ask for forgiveness later.)


Ancient man figured out real quick that religion hardly controlled the behavior of man and instituted state laws that punished here on earth.

Fear of punishment is the primary behavior driver. Group acceptance is an additional driver, we tend to toe the line to avoid expulsion.

 

[sargentlard]

That humanity is so stupid that it has to believe a fairy tale is true so it can have a sense of morality. Bullshit.

Really?...sounds about right to me.

 

[wesmorris]

People, religion is like a choice of subscription to a magazine.

If you have the time and inclination to ask the hard questions and keep on with the endless chain questions that follow, then you will be an athiest (or agnostic (which really makes you athiest but that is another thread)). It's about personal efficiency more than anything. The brain requires of every person that they answer questions that the ask. I ask "how did the universe come to be" and I'm still trying to figure it out from when it occurred to me to ask when I was a child.

If you're not particularly interested in the answer.. as in, you just don't really care where it all came from.. you can easily be atheist. If you really really care, you're gonna keep looking and keep looking and you'll end up on sciforums writing stupid shit like this.

If you really want a good answer, such that you can move on and expend your will elsewhere, like learning your profession, you can go theist or whatever.

Oh, but most people get it from the people they care about. Usually it's an emotional investment that provides a sense of security and belonging. It may be based on bullshit facts, but the emotional component is a real as my stance against the stupidity of those facts. Religion does a lot of good from that perspective. People become better people from it, even though it's based on a sack of shit. It's not the sack of shit that matters.. what matters to me, is that the people are happy and as well adjusted as possible.

It's a different story if they want to debate the facts.. but that's kidn of a separate issue.

 

[sargentlard]

It's not the sack of shit that matters.. what matters to me, is that the people are happy and as well adjusted as possible.

...but doesn't the fact that their well adjustment and helpful mentality stems from fairytale origins. It maybe just me but that fact that your whole sense of morality and ethics come from the fact that "God wants us to do that" or "Do unto others as you would have done unto you"..or some sort of religion originated propaganda scares me. The fact that you spread the name of someone with such blind faith and find hope in their love.....seems more like a weakness rather than strength to me.

But this is just me....religion does good but it irks me that we need such an institution to keep us from going astray.

 

[wesmorris]

seems more like a weakness rather than strength to me.

that's because to you it is.

i'm with you really... for me, it would never work. it's a crock of shit.

but for other people, it's perfect.

 

[Votorx]

That humanity is so stupid that it has to believe a fairy tale is true so it can have a sense of morality. Bullshit.

Just because you don't believe in that bullshit doesn't mean others are the same way. Many many many people believe in teh bible and follow it. Their need to do good to achieve salvations keeps evil from taking hold of the world. Humanity doesn't need to be stupid to believe in this "fairy tale" just gullible. Maybe you're stupid for making such a vulgar statement without thinking.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

...but doesn't the fact that their well adjustment and helpful mentality stems from fairytale origins. It maybe just me but that fact that your whole sense of morality and ethics come from the fact that "God wants us to do that" or "Do unto others as you would have done unto you"..or some sort of religion originated propaganda scares me. The fact that you spread the name of someone with such blind faith and find hope in their love...seems more like a weakness rather than strength to me.

But this is just me...religion does good but it irks me that we need such an institution to keep us from going astray.

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M*W: We (humanity) created "religion." That's why there are so many religions out there. If religions were created by some higher power, fairy tale prince, or other super hero demigod, then it seems to me there would be only one true faith. Religions were created to control the masses for fun and profit. Our human intelligence apparently went awry when our innate ego grew bigger than our cumulative intellect, and we started to rationalize that there might be a creation greater than our own.

 

[wesmorris]

We (humanity) created "religion."

Boy howdy aint that the deal? Yeah. Here's how I see it though.. check it:

Let's say the first group of homo-sapian emerge from their cave. They hunt, they gather, they mate... but a few of them ponder more than the others. These ponderers look about them and ask themselves "what the hell"? They find labels for things but damnit if logic (though wholly non-formal) doesn't creep into their thoughts. "this here, isn't that over there" WHY??? WHY!!?!??!? They can't figure it out.

One day, poof, bam bang: epiphany. "That must have been made different. None of my tribe can do this.. hmmmm." Ponder ponder shibang: "Invisible powerfull beings toying with our lives. This requires reverence. If we appease these powers... maybe they will favor us" howabout it: recognition of cause and effect. Of course with such woefull context (as in no society, little language (limited to gruntspeak or glorified gruntspeak)), no math, no "accepted facts" besides if you don't eat you die and the likes), there was no means to make good connections between cause and effect. It simply because the best understanding at the time, came from the smartest or most powerful in the group at the time, who were given authority based on their power.. because there was no "sophistication" to be had.

Apply natural selection and 100,000 years or so and you get modern religion based on this shit. It was created by man, yes.. but for most of the time it was because it was the only way to keep order because there was no better place for answers! Authority was the deal, because it was the only gig in town. The mix of bullshit you see now, with aitheists arguing with religious folks etc., is what basically became a meme over time. for the longest time it was very very dangerous not to be religious, as nobody dug heretics. Evolutionarily speaking, that was a good thing. It allowed enough structure in society to get our shit together as a species in order than we can eventually escape that stupid shit. Now we're gonna be faced with some turbulence as the old needs give way to the new.

That's why there are so many religions out there.

There are so many different religions because this scenario played out over and over and worked in parallel. Mayans did their thing because there were no christians around at the time to force them to change. Eventually there were and well, you know. It started out there was a goddamn god for everthing. Every shaman for ever isolated tribe got to be the body of societal knowledge for their tribe. As the tribe grew, so did the religion. Then they clashed, changed, evolved, adapted... adopted, integrated... clashed more. Hence the picture now.

If religions were created by some higher power, fairy tale prince, or other super hero demigod, then it seems to me there would be only one true faith.

LOL. Boy isn't that the truth. What's funny to me is that if you ask any member of any faith, you used to get "duh" and mine is the one true faith.. but that is fadign over time. Tolerance and all is increasing I think, ever so slowly.

Religions were created to control the masses for fun and profit.

Sort of. I honestly don't think our species would be nearly as successful without religion to have gotten us to where we don't need religion any more. I think they evolved, so saying they were "created" isn't really right. I'm sure that's been done. How many times I've sat wanting a cult so I could get sexed up by all the womens in my cult! Most of them though I think simply evolved from their predecessor. Eventually.. probably a few thousand years back, once languages were complicated enough for people's thoughts to really penetrate the abstract realm, some people like us had rational basis to reject the notion of religion. A lot of them probably paid for that rejection with their lives. That sucks, but it is the way. The survival of the species is FAR more important than its integrity. Integrity is a luxury for the species up until the last I dunno.. few thousands years? Few hundred? Now I think integrity has become more important, but I wonder if that's just me projecting my personal values onto my analysis.

Our human intelligence apparently went awry when our innate ego grew bigger than our cumulative intellect, and we started to rationalize that there might be a creation greater than our own.

Nah. Our intelligence demanded answers that our context couldn't provide and well... we're apparently still working on all that eh?

 

[LostInThought7]

Quote: "goddamn god"

I'm so confused....

 

[Katazia]

Votorx,

Just because you don't believe in that bullshit doesn't mean others are the same way.

Are you referring to the stupid people then?

Many many many people believe in teh bible and follow it.

Ahh you do mean the stupid people. Many many many people in the past believed the earth was flat as well.

Their need to do good to achieve salvations keeps evil from taking hold of the world.

More BS.

Humanity doesn't need to be stupid to believe in this "fairy tale" just gullible.

What’s the difference?

Maybe you're stupid for making such a vulgar statement without thinking.

Some statements seem very appropriate when discussion the stupidity of religion – that was one of them.

Kat