SetiAlpha6 said:
Explain how religion is the cause of the wars you cite from the bible?
Jan.
Religion causes Violence is a Fallacious Statement
- Thread starter lightgigantic
- Start date
Explain how religion is the cause of the wars you cite from the bible?
Jan.
Jan Ardena said:
Deuteronomy 7:2
…when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
Hi Jan,
I have a question for you.
Just for a minute, Jan, imagine that you are a soldier in the Israeli army. Could you do that for me?
Your enemy has been delivered into your hands and has been defeated. The war is over. The battle is done. You have their city surrounded and they have surrendered. They have even laid down their arms. You are now standing there with a sword in your hand, drenched in your own sweat, and covered in the blood of those you have already killed. You are standing face to face with real flesh and blood, men, women, and children. Some are moaning in agony from their injuries. Arms and legs have been cut off by your righteous sword. Hundreds of people lay dying and dead before you. A woman makes eye to eye contact with you. In her arms she holds her precious little girl. That little girl has done nothing to deserve what is about to happen to her. You can tell from the look in her mother’s eyes that she fears for the life of her daughter for she knows what the Israeli army is capable of. And now you have been commanded to slaughter, in cold blood, all of the remaining helpless, men, women, and children you see before you, WITHOUT MERCY!
Would you kill that little girl and her mother, Jan? Yes or No! What would your religion require of you?
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Scripture quoting means nothing. People kill for religious reasons simply because their God kills. In some perverse way, a mind is made to think they are doing their God's will, in a subconcious effort to gain favor. God leads by example.
Is there a holy war with Rats as the main combattants going on somewhere in the world?
I should have mentioned that there is story in the Bible and I'll make it short....at one point in time God killed every rat on Earth save two. Are there any other land animals you can kill?
I've put animals to sleep.
And kill any animals required for my experiments.
My grandmother used to keep chickens and killed them for food, so it's not a big deal to me.
I'm also, for obvious reasons, very good at patching up wounded animals and I have lots of pets at home.
And kill any animals required for my experiments.
My grandmother used to keep chickens and killed them for food, so it's not a big deal to me.
I'm also, for obvious reasons, very good at patching up wounded animals and I have lots of pets at home.
Even God didn't kill everything. Killing, whether it be humans or whatever is an act God commits on a regular basis, if done for religious reasons then it gives more credence for followers to copy it.
Granted, we killed first by all accounts. Killing for religious reasons is another thing altogether and is the topic of this thread, no?
Got to go to work. goodnite.
Granted, we killed first by all accounts. Killing for religious reasons is another thing altogether and is the topic of this thread, no?
Got to go to work. goodnite.
PsychoticEpisode said:
Whatever looks good to the populace right?
Hitler went for German pride, US went for American interests/democracy, Israel goes for self-defence and *insert Islamofascist* go for religion.
But it's actually all just a major pissing contest.
SetiAlpha6 said:
You still have not answered the question, why is religion the cause of war. The passage you quote from the bible happened at that time, the only religion involved was of the relationship between the Israelites and their god.
Explain how any war is caused by religion?
In answer to your question, I do not know of any (real) religion which advises adherents to kill people, animals, or plants as a part of its regulative principles. With regard to Judaism, the rules and regulations are the 10 commandments, which say nothing about killing whimsically, in fact it states the opposite.
Jan.
The thread creator guy is totally right. I mean certainly people would willingly strap bombs to themselves and run into crowded areas without religion! I mean why wouldn't they?
That and relgion. Jews were an easy scapegoat having killed Christ and whatnot.
After being attacked for religious reasons (sparked the opportunity I mean), by a religious president, and violence being prolonged through various religious factions.
Again, religion. They're attacked because of their religion, they attack back because of their religion.
There are only 2 causes for war, religion and greed. You can always lump them into one or the other, usually both.
samcdkey said:
That and relgion. Jews were an easy scapegoat having killed Christ and whatnot.
After being attacked for religious reasons (sparked the opportunity I mean), by a religious president, and violence being prolonged through various religious factions.
Again, religion. They're attacked because of their religion, they attack back because of their religion.
There are only 2 causes for war, religion and greed. You can always lump them into one or the other, usually both.
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Plunkies said:
Like the LTTE, communist group which committed over 300 suicide bombings. And the first suicide bombers in Lebanon, mostly communists and Christians.
Who remembers the 5 million non-Jews killed by the Nazis anyway, right?
And the religious reasons behind 9/11 being?
Nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that:
-they are refugees since 50+ years
-other people are living in their houses while they live in refugee camps
-they have received no compensation for their land/homes
-they have lost family members
- they are strafed with gunfire regularly
- their children are randomly picked up and imprisoned
- the hospitals, electric towers, sewage, police stations are regularly bombed
- they are systematically starved
- etc
Of course not! It's because they are religious!!!
Of course one can completely ignore that the PLO was formed post-occupation- I mean anyone else would just give up their homes and walk away, right?
Or that no Hezbollah existed before the Israel occupation of Lebanon.
Nope completely insignificant.
There is only cure for ignorance and that is education. Some reasoning power might also be beneficial.
Jan Ardena said:
Hi Jan,
My question to you is my answer. It is a very simple and telling question.
Would you kill that little girl and her mother without mercy or not? Yes or No? What would your faith and your religion as an Israeli soldier require of you?
You are supposed to "live your faith" aren’t you? So what would you have done?
samcdkey said:
I meant more along the lines of pointless suicide bombings. I'm sure the Japanese weren't flying planes into ships for buddha.
Who remembers the numerous times Hitler said he was doing God's work?
Besides, when you've already killed a million Jews it hardly matters if you get rid of the disabled or gypsies along with them. The Jews were the point, everyone else was just a bonus for Hitler since they weren't Aryan.
Is that sarcasm? Jihad means religious war. You know...synonymous with crusade.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that:
-they are refugees since 50+ years
-other people are living in their houses while they live in refugee camps
-they have received no compensation for their land/homes
-they have lost family members
- they are strafed with gunfire regularly
- their children are randomly picked up and imprisoned
- the hospitals, electric towers, sewage, police stations are regularly bombed
- they are systematically starved
- etc
Of course not! It's because they are religious!!!
Of course one can completely ignore that the PLO was formed post-occupation- I mean anyone else would just give up their homes and walk away, right?
Or that no Hezbollah existed before the Israel occupation of Lebanon.
Nope completely insignificant.
Wow, that's a daunting amount of non sequiturs. You listed acts of war. That's like saying we're at war with Iraq because the Iraqis are shooting at our soldiers. What are the causes for those things?
What was that supposed to be? An insult? If so, I'd suggest you stop being a douche long enough to realize your own ignorance.
Violence carried out in the name of 'God' is religious violence.
Violence carried out for apparently non religious reasons but in a densely religious region, such as the American led war on terror and war in Iraq, or Israels disproportionate action (which funnily enough left Christian parts of Lebanon untouched), is violence where religion is a motivator rather than a cause.
Violence incited through scripture is a telling indicator of how religion has always fueled violence even in it's birth. The Bible tells you you must kill someone if they tell you to worship other Gods (much more at evilbible.com). The Quran never shuts up about how evil the infidel is and perhaps directly incites violence against them (I can't be bothered checking right now). Looking at the behaviour of Muslims in the world today towards 'infidels' it's hardly any wonder we don't get on.
Without religion, both terrorism and the war on terrorism would be greatly diminished. The fact that violence doesn't quite go hand in hand with non-religious regions like Europe, Japan, Austrailia etc is telling...
Violence carried out for apparently non religious reasons but in a densely religious region, such as the American led war on terror and war in Iraq, or Israels disproportionate action (which funnily enough left Christian parts of Lebanon untouched), is violence where religion is a motivator rather than a cause.
Violence incited through scripture is a telling indicator of how religion has always fueled violence even in it's birth. The Bible tells you you must kill someone if they tell you to worship other Gods (much more at evilbible.com). The Quran never shuts up about how evil the infidel is and perhaps directly incites violence against them (I can't be bothered checking right now). Looking at the behaviour of Muslims in the world today towards 'infidels' it's hardly any wonder we don't get on.
Without religion, both terrorism and the war on terrorism would be greatly diminished. The fact that violence doesn't quite go hand in hand with non-religious regions like Europe, Japan, Austrailia etc is telling...
SetiAlpha6 said:
You're question is devicive, there is no religion I know that instructs its adherents to act in this manner, so what kind of religion are you refering to?
Apart from that, a soldier is not trained to act on any personal belief, his duty is to take orders from his superiors, so if he is instructed to act in this way, then it is his duty.
Now please answer my question;
Why is religion the cause of war?
Jan.
Jan Ardena said:
Jan,
You are very correct, my question clearly is divisive. It divides truth from error, and reality from fantasy, and it reveals the true character of the one who answers it. It helps a person see who they really are underneath it all and helps them discover not only what motivates them but also how that motivation can really impact the world around them. That is, at least, part of the topic of this thread.
Barring mental illness, every man and woman on God’s green earth is responsible for his or her own actions, all the time. Somehow I think you might agree with that. Does the fact that you are a soldier exempt you from the responsibility of any and all immoral atrocities you might commit. You can’t really think that, can you? Do you think that the prosecution of war crimes is wrong? Do you approve of the total genocide of a people who are defensless and have surrendered?
I would say that religion has been proved to be "a" cause of violence within societies and "a" cause of war between them. It is not "always" the cause of war and it is not the "only" cause of war. The examples I selected simply provide evidence of how one particularly evil nation (Israel) controlled its people by claiming that God directly justified its own wars.
Seti