Religion and Sorcery

Of course religion is basically the same as sorcery and magic . Originally it was all intergrated if you go back to shamanic religion. Take Taoism as an excellent example.


The difference is that;
Orthodox religion has lost the knowledge of sorcery (then fears and persecutes those you still have the knowledge)
Mystic religion turns its attention to internal transformations (sorcery)
Magic deals with external transformations (sorcery) in the phenomonal world.





What is wrong with sorcery anyway?
 
Orthodox religion, as in established Abrahamic religion, has not lost the knowledge of sorcery. This is at least the premise of the thread. You will, however, be ostracized if, when practicing sorcery, your "source" is not the God of Abraham.
 
Lightgigantic:

So basically, karma doesn't matter to start off devotion?

Baumgarten:

Precisely. Also, so long as one does not call it sorcery, but simply "religion".
 
Orthodox religion, as in established Abrahamic religion, has not lost the knowledge of sorcery. This is at least the premise of the thread.

The opening post makes no mention that it is specific to Abrahmic religion, in fact it clearly says all religion;

It is my affirmation that religion - all religion, mind you - is essentially sorcery. That, barring perhaps a Diabolic influence in some magic systems, the rituals of magic and religion are the same. .

When I say 'lost the knowledge' I mean that mysticsim and magic are ussually practised outside of orthodox religion. Now orthodox religion does still go through the same ceremonial ritual, but they have often lost the meaning behind the ritual. As far as I can see most orthodox religion goes little beyond basic acts of worship and trying to conform to some basic morals as laid down by the religion, with no real attempt being made to effect transformation, either internal (mysticism) or external (magic).

E.g. Christians may praise Jesus for healing sick or changing water to wine... but how many of them know how to heal sick or change water to wine? Jews talk of moses turning a stick to a snake (with gods help) but how many know how to do the same ? The stories are still there , the ritual is often still there , the knowledge is not.

Jesus said "all this you will do and more" , but how many can.


In Hinduism and Taoism the orthodox and mystical paths are still more intergrated, the emphasis in much of Hinduism being on internal transformations and in Taoism the magical path as well, with both external and internal transformations being focused on by different sects.

You will, however, be ostracized if, when practicing sorcery, your "source" is not the God of Abraham.


As I am sure you would be ostracized in wicca or druidic groups if your source was the god of abraham.... what is your point?
 
LightTravelling:

Your elaborated point is certainly more valid, yes. Magical systems tend to retain the mystical transformational aspects that orthodox religion generally doesn't have. However, in so much as some of those systems are only found in certain situations, whereas magic allows for a widespread degree of practices, the very act of religious, mainstream, ritual is a magical act, similar to shamanistic rituals and the like.
 
Magical systems tend to retain the mystical transformational aspects that orthodox religion generally doesn't have.
Catholicism still retains transubstantiation - but I think the modern slant on what this is supposed to be is somewhat more subtle than turning a Prince into a Frog. :D
 
Prince_James

Lightgigantic:

So basically, karma doesn't matter to start off devotion?

No - it is dependant on the mercy of the pure devotee (to run the risk of swapping faiths for a moment, this is why xtians claim to be able to get the mercy of god through the blessings of jesus despite being sinful - the success of such endeavours is fully dependant on obedience to the instructions of the pure devotee)
 
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