Religion And God

[Student of Yoga]

I believe the reign of humanity will soon come to an end if we don’t rid ourselves of our primitive beliefs and evolve into what some people would call god. Our inevitable extinction could come in the form a large asteroid or a nuclear war. Or it could come in the form of chemical and biological weapons. I am sure that you are use to hearing doomsday scenarios from some religious leaders because it was written at the end of the bible, but unlike most of them I believe that the end could come next year or in a hundred years. I have no way of knowing what will happen in the future, but I do know that the human body is very fragile. We take a lot of things for granted. We have an illusion that the environment on this planet will always be suitable for humans. Everything that we have accomplished during our approximately 100,000 years on this planet could easily come to an end.

Well done, you have just summarised the whole point of yoga and Vedanta. The Universe exists and The Universal power (holy Ghost, shakti, Allah etc) is omni-present. The idea of all religion is realise this fact for yourself (not follow blindly but do the method to realise) and become one with it. A process of apotheosis. This can only be done by destroying the mind, which limits your perception of reality. Follow any religious teaching, for example The ten commandments, the Eightfold path and this will be done automatically, however you won't realise you are doing it. But follow Vedanta and you do it consciously. Both these paths lead to the same goal i.e. God realisation and evolution into God ie immortality.

 

[SnakeLord]

The Universe exists

Well, that's certainly interesting news.

This can only be done by destroying the mind

Far too many have gone down that path already - and it clearly hasn't done any good whatsoever.

 

[lightgigantic]

Well done, you have just summarised the whole point of yoga and Vedanta. The Universe exists and The Universal power (holy Ghost, shakti, Allah etc) is omni-present. The idea of all religion is realise this fact for yourself (not follow blindly but do the method to realise) and become one with it. A process of apotheosis. This can only be done by destroying the mind, which limits your perception of reality. Follow any religious teaching, for example The ten commandments, the Eightfold path and this will be done automatically, however you won't realise you are doing it. But follow Vedanta and you do it consciously. Both these paths lead to the same goal i.e. God realisation and evolution into God ie immortality.

Evolution in to God? What sort of gods are we that we sucumbed to illusion? Its a crazy idea.
The idea is not to become god but to be dovetailed with god's desire - this is what the vedas ascertain as the goal of life - just consider hanuman's insistance on not accepting a benediction from rama because it would disturb the status quo.
Its just like proclaiming to your general practioner "I want to be my own father." What else could he say but "sorry the position is already taken"

 

[Student of Yoga]

It is said in the Upanishads that every being is in fact part of God.
Check these quotes out:
Soham-That (God) i am.
Tat Twam asi-That (God) thou art.
Aham Brahmaasmi-Brahman (God) i am
Read the Vedantic philosophy, it will answer all your queries.
Also read my posts on the page before.

 

[lightgigantic]

It is said in the Upanishads that every being is in fact part of God..

Well why are you are saying that we ARE god?

Check these quotes out:

Soham-That (God) i am.
Tat Twam asi-That (God) thou art.
Aham Brahmaasmi-Brahman (God) i am
Read the Vedantic philosophy, it will answer all your queries.
Also read my posts on the page before.

I am familiar with those quotes but it is your translations that I contend - Brahman means spirit - yes we are spirit but no we are not the supreme spirit (param brahma -God) - so aham brahmasmi is more like "I am spirit" as opposed to "I am the supreme spirit"

your view however that we are god is not supported by this quote from the upanisads
nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
(the singular eternal;of the plural eternals;the singular conscious being;of the plural conscious beings
eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman
(that one;of the many;He who;supplies;all desired necessities of life)

translates as - The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.


There are stacks of other slokas I could bring up but to say that the upanisads indicate that the living entity becomes god is not very authoratative. (even just the first two words - nityo nityanam - indicate the idea is not in line)

The actual view of the upanisads is that the living entity is one with god in quality (eternal primeval ever existing etc) but not quality (fully independant, the creator maintainer and destroyer of everything etc) - the example is there that a drop of sea water tastes the same as the ocean but the drop doesn't contain the variety that the ocean offers

 

[Godless]

Well why are you are saying that we ARE god?

This depends in your interpretation of god. We are gods, to many other creatures of this planet, we decide their fate, some are food, some we save from extinction, and some we can care less. To an ant I'm god, to bugs, microbes, etc. We are the last of the food chain, unless we enter a lions den.

Are gods all powerfull, we have been all powerfull as a group, we've built and destroyes civilizations, such as the biblical gods, we have decided moral issues, such as biblical gods, though some of those moral issues are covered in the scriptures, others we just don't abide by. i.e. stoning women to death of adultery amongs others..So ultimately we decide which moral issues of scriptures we follow, and which are basically not moral at all.

Do we posses supernatural powers? Try explaining a nuclear explosion to a 3rd century person. 'this imposible i know' but the knowledge aquired from then till now, would render our technological advance, like "supernatural phenomenon to them".


Religion:

Godless

 

[Student of Yoga]

Well why are you are saying that we ARE god?

Check these quotes out:


I am familiar with those quotes but it is your translations that I contend - Brahman means spirit - yes we are spirit but no we are not the supreme spirit (param brahma -God) - so aham brahmasmi is more like "I am spirit" as opposed to "I am the supreme spirit"

your view however that we are god is not supported by this quote from the upanisads
nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
(the singular eternal;of the plural eternals;the singular conscious being;of the plural conscious beings
eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman
(that one;of the many;He who;supplies;all desired necessities of life)

translates as - The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.


There are stacks of other slokas I could bring up but to say that the upanisads indicate that the living entity becomes god is not very authoratative. (even just the first two words - nityo nityanam - indicate the idea is not in line)

The actual view of the upanisads is that the living entity is one with god in quality (eternal primeval ever existing etc) but not quality (fully independant, the creator maintainer and destroyer of everything etc) - the example is there that a drop of sea water tastes the same as the ocean but the drop doesn't contain the variety that the ocean offers

So what happens to the one who attains liberation? Who is he? The Lord no longer supports him by giving to him the necessities of life. He is like the drop of water that has travelled via the rivers and entered into the ocean. That drop thinks he is different to the ocean, but when he enters into the ocean, he becomes part of the ocean. He is one with the Atman, nay he is the Atman himself. Study the Mandukya Upanishad; it will show you the definition of the Atman.

 

[Student of Yoga]

Do we posses supernatural powers?
Godless

Not once have i talked about supernatural power. Is power what makes one God? I dont think so. He who has risen above the ego is also considered to be God.

 

[lightgigantic]

So what happens to the one who attains liberation? Who is he? The Lord no longer supports him by giving to him the necessities of life. He is like the drop of water that has travelled via the rivers and entered into the ocean. That drop thinks he is different to the ocean, but when he enters into the ocean, he becomes part of the ocean. He is one with the Atman, nay he is the Atman himself. Study the Mandukya Upanishad; it will show you the definition of the Atman.

Mundaka upanisad 3.1.1
dva suparna sayuja sakhayah
samanam vrksam parisasvajate
tayor anyah pippalam svadv atty
anasnann anyo 'bhicakasiti
The Lord and the living entity are compared to two birds sitting in a tree. While the illusioned living entity eats the fruits of the material world, the Lord as Supersoul and best friend witnesses these activities.

Your right it does - it shows the distinction between the atma and paramatama.
A particle of water that goes in to the ocean remains a particle of water and if it get removed it still remains a particle - it is only due to imperfect knowledge that it appears to have lost its individuality

As for liberation, liberation innvolves being reinstated into one's proper identity as opposed to working under the influence of one's body etc that is defined by the three gunas (sattva, rajas and tamas)

The living entity is never fully independant (Full Independence, svarat, is a quality of parambrahma, and not brahma) , its just that their independence becomes a source of anxiety in material life and a source of ananda in spiritual life

 

[Godless]

Not once have i talked about supernatural power.

The very second you mention "god" in your sentence, you invoke "supernaturalism"

 

[Michael]

Americans can’t understand why so many Muslims are willing to blow themselves up to kill their enemies. If I was a poor uneducated Muslim living in a violent environment I would probably be willing to blow myself up also. All I have to do is strap on a bomb and send a couple of infidels to hell and I don’t have to worry about Americans dropping bombs on my head anymore. I don’t have to worry about hunger, disease, or violence anymore. It seems like a good deal to me.

Actually, the scary thing is, many of the suicide bombers in Iraq come from middle class families living in KSA (a brainwashers mecca).
The poor and destitute Iraqis, for the most part, continue to choose life in Iraq-hell with a dream of making the place better - for their tribe anyhow.

I find it even scarier that the teachings in Islam can motivate a person living in a decent family in KSA to travel to Iraq to commit suicide in the hopes of getting virgins in heaven

Good on em


Maybe Islam will be the ultimate key to the majority of people realizing monotheism is evil brainwashing? Muslim communities in America and Europe are set to grow exponentially over the near future. Maybe some day we infidels en masse will stop and think there is something wrong with letting a monotheist religion be taught that preaches the evils of Jews and Xians? Then maybe we'll think - hey that's just about like Xiantiy - minus the Xian part Maybe people will connect the dots? Then there will be an education campaign on the history of religion and how it is a bunch of BS.

Fat Chance of that happening!

Michael

 

[Michael]

If they weren't indoctrinated with a massive dose of R-virus as children, maybe they'd stay at home and watch the game on weekends instead of practicing bomb making techniques.

Maybe it's a choice of which Religious-meme one is inoculated with.? While I’m an Atheist, I think that societies may benefit from the Buddhism-meme.
Most people need some sort of philosophical approach give meaning to their lives.
Maybe that is why the well-fed KSA boys keep killing themselves. It seems (to me anyhow) that without conquest driving Muslims forward, Islam as a life-philosophy really falls flat on its face. Perhaps success is Islam’s greatest enemy?

MII

 

[lightgigantic]

The very second you mention "god" in your sentence, you invoke "supernaturalism"

Supernaturalism to who? maybe you perhaps but that by be to your lack of knowledge? Like for instance the word thermodynamics sounds surcharged with the mysticism of science to a person who is not familiar with science.

Here is an oxford definition of god - it refers to nothing as mystical but a being - supernatural is YOUR connatation to god

.....although that said god is a pretty surcharged word - you just have to mentionthe word god and watch people go off about so many things that have nothing to do with him - forums like these are prime examples

god / Ñ gQd; NAmE Ñ gA;d/ noun 1God [sing.] (not used with the) (in Christianity, Islam and Judaism) the being or spirit that is worshipped and is believed to have created the universe:
Do you believe in God? Ç Good luck and God bless you. Ç the Son of God (= Christ)2[C] (in some religions) a being or spirit who is believed to have power over a particular part of nature or who is believed to represent a particular quality:
Mars was the Roman god of war. Ç the rain god Ç Greek gods
—see also goddess3[C] a person who is loved or admired very much by other people:
To her fans she’s a god.
—see also goddess4[C] something to which too much importance or attention is given:
Money is his god.

 

[superluminal]

Maybe it's a choice of which Religious-meme one is inoculated with.? While I’m an Atheists, I think that societies may benefit from the Buddhism-meme.
Most people need some sort of philosophical approach to being long lasting meaning to their lives.
Maybe that is why the well-fed KSA boys keep killing themselves. It seems (to me anyhow) that without conquest driving Muslims forward, Islam as a life-philosophy really falls flat on its face. Perhaps success is Islam’s greatest enemy?

MII

It could well be. And yes, I think many societies could benefit from a dose of zen buddhism.

 

[Godless]

Supernaturalism to who? maybe you perhaps but that by be to your lack of knowledge? Like for instance the word thermodynamics sounds surcharged with the mysticism of science to a person who is not familiar with science.

Science is not mysticism.

The word "god" is. READ your own fucking damn defenition.

(in Christianity, Islam and Judaism) the being or spirit that is worshipped and is believed to have created the universe:

Supernaturalism:

The supernatural (Latin: super- "exceeding" + nature) refers to forces and phenomena which are beyond ordinary scientific measurement. Concepts in the supernatural domain are closely related to concepts in religious spirituality, metaphysics and Schizotypy.

click

Have a nice day.

Godless

 

[lightgigantic]

Science is not mysticism.

The word "god" is. READ your own fucking damn defenition.

Science is mysticism to someone who has no knowledge of it - In the same way god is supernatural to one who is ignorant in the same fashion

The point of the definition is that it refers to a being and something sepcific. Many people may not have met god, but that doesn't invalidate his position - after all, many people have not met the owner of the ferrari company either - it seems to be the trend that the more exalted you are the more qualified you have to be to see them directly

 

[Godless]

Science is mysticism to someone who has no knowledge of it

Theistic idiots! Yea I can relate.

In the same way god is supernatural to one who is ignorant in the same fashion

Doubt it. Were's the fucking evidence for this entity? Mysticism, believing bs is there with out any evidence. yea I can relate with that stupidity also.

 

[pavlosmarcos]

The point of the definition is that it refers to a being and something sepcific. Many people may not have met god,

nobody has met a god.

but that doesn't invalidate his position

it has no possition to invalidate

after all, many people have not met the owner of the ferrari company either

but they can find out he exists, in millions of evidential ways, the same cannot be said for a god, hence why, it's deemed supernatural, and the ferrari boss is'nt.

 

[lightgigantic]

nobody has met a god. it has no possition to invalidate but they can find out he exists, in millions of evidential ways, the same cannot be said for a god, hence why, it's deemed supernatural, and the ferrari boss is'nt.

Nobody has met god? That might be true of your experience but not others - what logic do you apply to arrive at the conclusion that noone has met god?

What are some examples of the evidential ways that you say the ferrari boss exists and god doesn't?

 

[lightgigantic]

Theistic idiots! Yea I can relate.




Doubt it. Were's the fucking evidence for this entity? Mysticism, believing bs is there with out any evidence. yea I can relate with that stupidity also.

Does that mean we can also reject other mystical entities like electrons and people's minds?