Religion and Birth Control

Arioch said:
If you are a christian, and believe in the virgin birth(that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus and remained a virgin afterwards despite giving Jesus siblings) then you by necessity believe that there is literally no form of birth control that is one hundred percent effective. Even abstinence failed at least once(more times, actually), leading to a less than one hundred percent effectiveness rate. Besides, even from a scientific perspective abstinence isn't one hundred percent, there's always the possibility that human parthenogenesis could occur in a virgin and lead to "another" virgin birth(in fact, if Jesus had been a woman I'd have suspected human parthenogenesis in the first place).
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:roflmao:
LOL!!!..good catch Arioch! I have never thought of it like that..
vote No on abstinence..it doesn't work..hehe..
 
Arioch said:
@MOM --

Coming from you that's a laugh, but already covered. It's in the OP, or didn't you notice?
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"People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of all people know that." - Homer Simpson :D

*Edit: This isn't something that has been widely studied yet and the manufacturers likely haven't made clinical trial data available to the public.

So, right now Ihave nothing to say it with,except perhaps the statement, "we'll see". :)

And anyway, it was stated as an opinion/speculation not a fact.
 
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Arioch said:
@MOM --

As Dywyddyr says, you missed the point. I really didn't think you'd understand it in the first place, but I'm an optimist so I hoped that you would.

If you are a christian, and believe in the virgin birth(that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus and remained a virgin afterwards despite giving Jesus siblings) then you by necessity believe that there is literally no form of birth control that is one hundred percent effective. Even abstinence failed at least once(more times, actually), leading to a less than one hundred percent effectiveness rate. Besides, even from a scientific perspective abstinence isn't one hundred percent, there's always the possibility that human parthenogenesis could occur in a virgin and lead to "another" virgin birth(in fact, if Jesus had been a woman I'd have suspected human parthenogenesis in the first place).

Do try and keep up.
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A Christian believes in the virgin birth of Jesus (ie. conceived without sexual intercourse and without the sperm of a human),
not of just anyone.
Jesus isn't considered a mere human, but God incarnate.

Secondly, "virgin" can also refer to 'pure,' 'innocent,' 'chaste' - other than in a sexual sense.
Hence "virgin olive oil," "virgin gold."
 
Signal said:
A Christian believes in the virgin birth of Jesus (ie. conceived without sexual intercourse and without the sperm of a human),
not of just anyone.
Jesus isn't considered a mere human, but God incarnate.

Secondly, "virgin" can also refer to 'pure,' 'innocent,' 'chaste' - other than in a sexual sense.
Hence "virgin olive oil," "virgin gold."
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So, does that mean abstinence is not 100% effective? :rolleyes:
 
The "virgin birth" of Jesus has nothing to do with humans.


Other than that, abstinence is not "100% effective," in the sense that insemination can occur without intercourse.
 
If you look at birth control, this is artificial or manmade since life does not use synthetic chemicals to control birth. The religious stand, although potentially creating problems with over crowding of humans, is the more natural path since it reflects the way nature does it.

If you don't believe this is natural, go outside and observe animals. Don't just read and assume that is real. You can check their fur for contraceptives. Or ask them if their doctor gives them birth control pills. Or where is the clinic where animals get all their abortions. Religions looked at natural reality, and concluded such things are synthetic since they could not find animals who did this.

The question becomes, if synthetic is being rationalized as natural by some, what other artificial and synthetic things are also being pitched as natural?

If I was objective, I would say religion is staying natual and green on this subjective. But there are cases where natural and green may not be optimized. Sometimes artificial might be needed.
 
Mind Over Matter said:
Let me google/wiki that for you....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstinence
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Mind Over Matter said:
If sperm is near enough to cause pregnancy one is not abstaining from sexual activity.
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In other words your claim was erroneous. Or at least nonsense.

I wonder though, if I were a masochist could I claim that since abstaining would give me pleasure (through self denial) then the only way to avoid that would be to sleep around as much possible?
 
Uh.
I think it is eventually better to refrain from discussing sex topics with people who are not used to fasting, meditation, various other forms of renunciation. :eek:
 
@Signal --

It doesn't matter if christians believe in the virgin birth of Jesus only, they still can't say that it's a one hundred percent effective method of birth control. Some of the new male pills, however, appear to be just that.
 
Arioch said:
It doesn't matter if christians believe in the virgin birth of Jesus only, they still can't say that it's a one hundred percent effective method of birth control.
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I have never heard anyone (no, not Christians either) claim that virgin birth was a 100% effective method of birth control. :rolleyes:


Some of the new male pills, however, appear to be just that.
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Appear, yes.
 
@Signal --

That's right, appear. We'll have to wait for the human trials to be concluded. Regardless of whether they're one hundred percent or merely 99.9% effective, it's still better than what's currently available.
 
Arioch said:
@Signal --

That's right, appear. We'll have to wait for the human trials to be concluded. Regardless of whether they're one hundred percent or merely 99.9% effective, it's still better than what's currently available.
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Mary, Virgin Mother of God.

Statistically making abstinence 99.99999% effective since 9 months B.C.
 
Arioch said:
What are your opinions on the various up-and-coming male birth control pills.
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I know they have a procedure that ionizes sperm rendering them sterile, but I don't think there is a pill. It would be marketed very heavily if there was. This isn't something that has been widely studied yet and the manufacturers likely haven't made clinical trial data available to the public.
Right now it is an opinion/speculation not a fact.
 
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