Medicine Woman,
I not going to say I know exactly what you've been through, but I know what it's like to feel like God has abandoned you. I used to be close to God and do what I felt He wanted me to do, but then I started struggleing with depression and I was baffeled as to why He alowed this to happen. It's like I try to do what you want me to do and you reward me with this terrible illness where I'm not alive, yet not dead. I thought to myself God would not allow this to happen, so there must be no God, Right? Am I anywhere close to what you think? I don't mean to offend or irritate you, I was just wondering.
Enigma'07
M*W: Thank you for sending me a PM. I am not offended or irritated! My story goes, I was raised agnostically, and I had a yearning to "belong" to something big. I always admired Catholic kids I knew. I married and decided it was time to give my kids religious training, so I converted to Catholicism. It was my life. I lived and breathed and taught catholicism fervently! I only associated with people in the church, and was so active in church, that I was 'scorching the Earth' with my christian beliefs. The turning point was when I lived in Germany and went on several religious pilgrimages -- Lourdes, Fatima, The Vatican, Avignon, Chartres, Notre Dame in Paris, etc. I ate it up! Then I went to Rome and to the Vatican. That was to be the high point of my religious education! But it wasn't. I was in the first audience with Pope John Paul II. I shook his hand. I prayed and prayed in thanksgiving for God allowing me to visit these holy places. But I got a strange feeling inside St. Peter's. I didn't feel 'right.' I got creepy feelings. My skin crawled. I'm a very sensitive person, and I had a sense of something evil! I couldn't explain it. I felt so guilty that when I had thoughts about my feelings, I would quickly get them out of my head! I couldn't explain it, and I was uncomfortable with my thoughts. I came to realize that all these holy places were not what the kingdom of God was about. This process took a long time. It didn't happen over night. I continued going to church 'religiously,' but I started having doubts even about the catholic mass and the rituals. I came to see how evil they were and how the church had brainwashed millions of people. All I can say is I finally realized that Christianity was not about Jesus, and it was not about God or salvation. I realized that the kingdom of God was 'within me' and not 'out there.' The kingdom of God that Jesus (alledgedly) spoke of was within the all of humanity. We are God's greatest creation (thus far) and furthermore, we are still in the last day of creation! We're not finished yet! God has great plans for humanity. It's really too bad that the writers of the NT never knew Jesus or what he actually said. Jesus never wrote anything on his own. I wonder about that because if he was a learned man and a rabbi, he would surely have written his own philosophies down. Therefore, I believe that Paul and the early church fathers created the image of a 'savior' for mind-control purposes, and it worked. Jesus may have never even existed. I tend to think he did, but nothing is true about his crucifixion, resurrection, or ascension. Those stories were all made up by a bunch of liars! These same liars removed so many texts from the compilation of the Bible. They didn't want the whole truth to be known. The early church fathers were only interested in selling a savior to the masses. In truth, there is no need for salvation, because we are already here by the grace of God! This is salvation! Being a member of the human race is salvation! There is no death to the spirit. The spirit inside us is the One Spirit of God, and it never changes. What our spirit does, however, is grow and become more enlightened when we find the truth about our existence. I've been a very lucky person all my life. I've had ups and downs in life, but we all do. But the difference is, I look within. God gave me this life, this body, this soul, and that's where God is. I don't have to go to church to find him. All I have to do is look within and pray within. People tell me I was born under a lucky star, but that's not it. I went looking for myself, and unexpectedly, I found God.
Medicine Woman,
Again, I don't mean to offend or irritate you, I just had some questions. I honestly don't know much about the Catholic church and I have a question. Don't they base alot of stuff on the verse where Jesus says to Peter I will build my church on this rock? I personaly think that the Catholic church has made things to complicated with all of their rituels. Do you agree? I don't know you very well, so perhaps I have no right to say this, but why not consider a differant religion? Not like some strange African or Buddhist (no offence to them but...)religion, but some thing that believes strictly in the Bible. Sorry if I've missed the point but it sounds as though your more upset with the Catholic Church than with God. I'm way off now, aren't I? The thing that's cool about what I've come to believe is that there's not some big list of laws and rituals to follow, it's all about love. I have another story to tell if you would like, or not if I've pissed you off or something.
Enigma'07
M*W: Somewhat. There are different meanings of the word 'Peter' which is 'Petra' in Greek that means 'rock.' There are other meanings as well. 'Petro' refers to the petroleum in the Earth. Also, 'petro' can mean 'energy.' Jesus was enlightened as in 'spirit-filled' and 'energetic.' The NT is really complicated unless one can read ancient Greek. Word meanings change with just about every generation (20 years of so), so after 20 centuries, they don't mean the same thing at all!
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*************
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M*W: Yes, the rituals are meaningless when you know the truth. But one must remember that these rituals were started in 325 AD by church fathers who wanted to control the masses. The rituals of the RCC are believed to carry and deliver spiritual growth to its members. When I was a catholic, I took these rituals seriously for my own spiritual growth. Now I understand that these rituals are unnecessary for spiritual growth. Spiritual growth comes from enlightenment, and that is what Jesus tried to teach. If one understands that no one really knows what Jesus actually said, because no one who wrote the NT books even lived during his time, with the exception of Peter and some others, none of the gospel writers knew him. In fact, there are many theories that people like 'Peter' were just code names for other people who may or may not have been Egyptian pharaohs and such. In fact, the whole bible is written in code (not like the book the Bible Code--that was something entirely different which I don't agree with). Like I said, it is of utmost importance that when reading the bible one knows ancient Hebrew and Greek. In fact, Jesus spoke Aramaic, so how could Paul, who wrote in Greek, who never met Jesus, translate what he thought Jesus said, into Greek? It's tremendously contradictory!
“
*************
”
M*W: Please feel free to discuss anything with me. We may not always agree, but I will certainly explain to you anything you want me to. When I learned the truth about Christianity, it wasn't just the RCC that was involved. The RCC bases their faith on the birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ, the only son of God. That belief is the root of all christianity. So, it wasn't the church itself, it was the faith the church based its religion on.
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*************
”
M*W: I wasn't exactly "upset with the Catholic Church" as I was with Christianity as a whole. I believe that's not what Jesus lived or taught. I do believe in Jesus, but it was the RCC who turned him into a dying demigod savior in 325 AD. You are right, our spirit "is about love." The fire, the energy, the "petro" of our passion, the light, our spiritual gift of love. Like the Beatles said, "love is all there is."
“
*************
”
M*W: Would you mind communicating on the forum or do you want to keep this private? I'm having some problems with the PM system, and I believe that if we continue to communicate on the forum, I won't have so many people asking me to repeat my story for them. It will also show that I can communicate with Christians without offending them. Sometimes I really do get upset with them, because I feel they really don't listen to me or try to understand me and my message because they are afraid to. But if you prefer to continue with PMs, that's okay, too.
I not going to say I know exactly what you've been through, but I know what it's like to feel like God has abandoned you. I used to be close to God and do what I felt He wanted me to do, but then I started struggleing with depression and I was baffeled as to why He alowed this to happen. It's like I try to do what you want me to do and you reward me with this terrible illness where I'm not alive, yet not dead. I thought to myself God would not allow this to happen, so there must be no God, Right? Am I anywhere close to what you think? I don't mean to offend or irritate you, I was just wondering.
Enigma'07
M*W: Thank you for sending me a PM. I am not offended or irritated! My story goes, I was raised agnostically, and I had a yearning to "belong" to something big. I always admired Catholic kids I knew. I married and decided it was time to give my kids religious training, so I converted to Catholicism. It was my life. I lived and breathed and taught catholicism fervently! I only associated with people in the church, and was so active in church, that I was 'scorching the Earth' with my christian beliefs. The turning point was when I lived in Germany and went on several religious pilgrimages -- Lourdes, Fatima, The Vatican, Avignon, Chartres, Notre Dame in Paris, etc. I ate it up! Then I went to Rome and to the Vatican. That was to be the high point of my religious education! But it wasn't. I was in the first audience with Pope John Paul II. I shook his hand. I prayed and prayed in thanksgiving for God allowing me to visit these holy places. But I got a strange feeling inside St. Peter's. I didn't feel 'right.' I got creepy feelings. My skin crawled. I'm a very sensitive person, and I had a sense of something evil! I couldn't explain it. I felt so guilty that when I had thoughts about my feelings, I would quickly get them out of my head! I couldn't explain it, and I was uncomfortable with my thoughts. I came to realize that all these holy places were not what the kingdom of God was about. This process took a long time. It didn't happen over night. I continued going to church 'religiously,' but I started having doubts even about the catholic mass and the rituals. I came to see how evil they were and how the church had brainwashed millions of people. All I can say is I finally realized that Christianity was not about Jesus, and it was not about God or salvation. I realized that the kingdom of God was 'within me' and not 'out there.' The kingdom of God that Jesus (alledgedly) spoke of was within the all of humanity. We are God's greatest creation (thus far) and furthermore, we are still in the last day of creation! We're not finished yet! God has great plans for humanity. It's really too bad that the writers of the NT never knew Jesus or what he actually said. Jesus never wrote anything on his own. I wonder about that because if he was a learned man and a rabbi, he would surely have written his own philosophies down. Therefore, I believe that Paul and the early church fathers created the image of a 'savior' for mind-control purposes, and it worked. Jesus may have never even existed. I tend to think he did, but nothing is true about his crucifixion, resurrection, or ascension. Those stories were all made up by a bunch of liars! These same liars removed so many texts from the compilation of the Bible. They didn't want the whole truth to be known. The early church fathers were only interested in selling a savior to the masses. In truth, there is no need for salvation, because we are already here by the grace of God! This is salvation! Being a member of the human race is salvation! There is no death to the spirit. The spirit inside us is the One Spirit of God, and it never changes. What our spirit does, however, is grow and become more enlightened when we find the truth about our existence. I've been a very lucky person all my life. I've had ups and downs in life, but we all do. But the difference is, I look within. God gave me this life, this body, this soul, and that's where God is. I don't have to go to church to find him. All I have to do is look within and pray within. People tell me I was born under a lucky star, but that's not it. I went looking for myself, and unexpectedly, I found God.
Medicine Woman,
Again, I don't mean to offend or irritate you, I just had some questions. I honestly don't know much about the Catholic church and I have a question. Don't they base alot of stuff on the verse where Jesus says to Peter I will build my church on this rock? I personaly think that the Catholic church has made things to complicated with all of their rituels. Do you agree? I don't know you very well, so perhaps I have no right to say this, but why not consider a differant religion? Not like some strange African or Buddhist (no offence to them but...)religion, but some thing that believes strictly in the Bible. Sorry if I've missed the point but it sounds as though your more upset with the Catholic Church than with God. I'm way off now, aren't I? The thing that's cool about what I've come to believe is that there's not some big list of laws and rituals to follow, it's all about love. I have another story to tell if you would like, or not if I've pissed you off or something.
Enigma'07
M*W: Somewhat. There are different meanings of the word 'Peter' which is 'Petra' in Greek that means 'rock.' There are other meanings as well. 'Petro' refers to the petroleum in the Earth. Also, 'petro' can mean 'energy.' Jesus was enlightened as in 'spirit-filled' and 'energetic.' The NT is really complicated unless one can read ancient Greek. Word meanings change with just about every generation (20 years of so), so after 20 centuries, they don't mean the same thing at all!
“
*************
*************I personaly think that the Catholic church has made things to complicated with all of their rituels. Do you agree?
”
M*W: Yes, the rituals are meaningless when you know the truth. But one must remember that these rituals were started in 325 AD by church fathers who wanted to control the masses. The rituals of the RCC are believed to carry and deliver spiritual growth to its members. When I was a catholic, I took these rituals seriously for my own spiritual growth. Now I understand that these rituals are unnecessary for spiritual growth. Spiritual growth comes from enlightenment, and that is what Jesus tried to teach. If one understands that no one really knows what Jesus actually said, because no one who wrote the NT books even lived during his time, with the exception of Peter and some others, none of the gospel writers knew him. In fact, there are many theories that people like 'Peter' were just code names for other people who may or may not have been Egyptian pharaohs and such. In fact, the whole bible is written in code (not like the book the Bible Code--that was something entirely different which I don't agree with). Like I said, it is of utmost importance that when reading the bible one knows ancient Hebrew and Greek. In fact, Jesus spoke Aramaic, so how could Paul, who wrote in Greek, who never met Jesus, translate what he thought Jesus said, into Greek? It's tremendously contradictory!
“
*************
*************I don't know you very well, so perhaps I have no right to say this, but why not consider a differant religion? Not like some strange African or Buddhist (no offence to them but...)religion, but some thing that believes strictly in the Bible.
”
M*W: Please feel free to discuss anything with me. We may not always agree, but I will certainly explain to you anything you want me to. When I learned the truth about Christianity, it wasn't just the RCC that was involved. The RCC bases their faith on the birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ, the only son of God. That belief is the root of all christianity. So, it wasn't the church itself, it was the faith the church based its religion on.
“
*************
*************Sorry if I've missed the point but it sounds as though your more upset with the Catholic Church than with God. I'm way off now, aren't I? The thing that's cool about what I've come to believe is that there's not some big list of laws and rituals to follow, it's all about love. I have another story to tell if you would like, or not if I've pissed you off or something.
”
M*W: I wasn't exactly "upset with the Catholic Church" as I was with Christianity as a whole. I believe that's not what Jesus lived or taught. I do believe in Jesus, but it was the RCC who turned him into a dying demigod savior in 325 AD. You are right, our spirit "is about love." The fire, the energy, the "petro" of our passion, the light, our spiritual gift of love. Like the Beatles said, "love is all there is."
“
*************
”
M*W: Would you mind communicating on the forum or do you want to keep this private? I'm having some problems with the PM system, and I believe that if we continue to communicate on the forum, I won't have so many people asking me to repeat my story for them. It will also show that I can communicate with Christians without offending them. Sometimes I really do get upset with them, because I feel they really don't listen to me or try to understand me and my message because they are afraid to. But if you prefer to continue with PMs, that's okay, too.