Rationalizing the existence of God

"Meaning it"? I think you'd be surprised that they mostly do mean it - you just have to ask them and question them on it to realise this - and the vast majority of those I have spoken to do indeed mean it.

?? Like I already said. It's not clear what you're disagreeing with.


How is such a "weak-atheist" position supposed to differ from the "strong-atheist" position in this regard?

Uh. The strong ones have a bigger mouth than the weak ones.


As I perceive it, both positions (weak- and strong-) lead to the same practical outcome...

Like I said:

Probably few people would argue that "if Homo sapiens can not comprehend a reality, then that reality does not exist." But that doesn't stop them from meaning it and acting like it is true.

You introduced the weak vs. strong dichotomy, not I.
 
I just recalled an incident with Fraggle, where he quoted Wiki to explain strong vs. weak atheism; the Wiki article said essentially that weak atheists are shy to talk about God and their lack of belief in God, while strong atheists aren't. We both then thought this was an odd take on the strong vs. weak atheism issue. Remember?
 
Aid, It’s difficult to continue a debate surrounded by such sweeping generalizations and misrepresentations.

You mean, like this?

So let me ask: is atheism akin to a plant denying the existence of animals on the basis that it lacks the faculties to perceive and to comprehend them?

A plant is incomprehensible to a rock, however the inability of a rock to comprehend the plant does not disprove the existence of the plant.
An animal is incomprehensible to a plant, however the inability of a plant to comprehend the animal does not disprove the existence of the animal.
 
?? Like I already said. It's not clear what you're disagreeing with.
Apologies - was confusing myself with some double negatives. I've corrected my post to state that they don't mean it.
Uh. The strong ones have a bigger mouth than the weak ones.
Maybe on a forum such as this... but the practical world is far larger.
Like I said:

Probably few people would argue that "if Homo sapiens can not comprehend a reality, then that reality does not exist." But that doesn't stop them from meaning it and acting like it is true.

You introduced the weak vs. strong dichotomy, not I.
Yes - because you are attributing anyone who acts in a certain way to a specific philosophical position, when multiple philosophies lead to the same actions.
I.e. I am not disputing that weak atheists act like it is true (is it possible to act like it is not true without being a theist?) but that acting it does not necessitate meaning it.
Only the strong atheists would act like it is true AND mean that it is true.
The weak atheists would act like it is true BUT NOT mean that it is true.
 
I just recalled an incident with Fraggle, where he quoted Wiki to explain strong vs. weak atheism; the Wiki article said essentially that weak atheists are shy to talk about God and their lack of belief in God, while strong atheists aren't. We both then thought this was an odd take on the strong vs. weak atheism issue. Remember?
I don't - but I'd concur that it is an odd take on the issue.
 
Yes - because you are attributing anyone who acts in a certain way to a specific philosophical position, when multiple philosophies lead to the same actions.

Nope, you're the one doing that.

I simply commented on how some things are too preposterous to say out loud, but that that doesn't stop people from meaning them or acting as if they were true. Whether it's some kind of atheism, or tax evasion, or killing a hobo.
 
Now, Aqueous I invite you to clarify your statements.

Religion according to Aqueous Id: -

“all religions are nothing more than the perpetuation of myth, legend and fable passed down from cults of antiquity which were steeped in superstition and ignorance of the laws of nature.” – Aqueous Id

Ultimately your pronunciations relate to the perceived reliability of religious history and the exegeses of holy books. These are interesting topics but irrelevant to the present discussion. If you disbelieve in the existence of God based on the conclusions of a subset of archaeologists and historians, you’re engaging in the study of the fallibilities of man and the robustness of his scholarly and scientific methods; as such, your grievances about religious history have no bearing whatsoever on the question of the existence of God.

Without equivocating, it's safe to say that God does not exist for a multitude of reasons, but the overriding one - the one that makes all inquiry moot - is that this is nothing more than "hearsay upon hearsay" (Thomas Paine), that "men invented the gods" (Critias) and thus there is nothing for the lowly creature to reach beyond his grasp to discern, other than the fantasy that created all religions in the first place.

This is fluff. Do you actually have a legitimate reason at all, let alone a ‘safe’ one? Your Thomas Paine quotation is completely out of context (he was discussing the Virgin Birth), and as for your Critias quotation – man invented the computer too, so what is your point exactly? This then brings us to your 3rd reason, “there is nothing for the lowly creature to reach beyond his grasp to discern“, which brings us full circle to my original point about the limits of empiricism and the intellectual and perceptive faculties of man.

The rejection of the evidence of evolution and the Big Bang in deference to superstition, myth, legend and fable also speaks to the limitations of humans, but neither of these is an indictment against atheism.
Equivocation of theism with rejection of the Big Bang, superstition, myth, legend and fable is fallacious.
First, humans evolved from apelike protohumans which follows a long evolutionary succession over a billion years or so. To say otherwise is to live in denial of evidence

A billion years! Goodness grief! How you managed to reach all the way back into the pre-Cambrian and imagine that a period characterized still by Proterozoic unicellularity was, rather, marked by human divergence from ‘apelike protohumans’ is disturbing. Hand in your evolutionist card at the front desk.

Rather than wasting our time casting aspersions against science, academia, and the evidence of nature

Equivocation of theism with casting aspersions against science, academia, and the evidence of nature is fallacious.

The evolution of H. sapiens sapiens was completed millions of years before there was even a written language from which any estimate can be made about when the earliest conceptualization of infinity arose.

The clerk at the front desk is still waiting. Firstly, evolution of Homo sapiens sapiens is never completed – we are still evolving. Secondly, the emergence of Homo sapiens sapiens took place 200,000 years ago, not “millions of years” ago.

These are your personal forays into renouncing logic altogether since you already know religious argument withers under the scrutiny of valid logic. … You will quickly lose your religion and return to your application of logic as a matter of survival.

More fluff. Please do not keep us in suspense, we are looking forward to you sharing the ‘valid logic’ which will wither theism.

What's been defended is the sanctity of education. […]Eventually if you ever play your hand we'll probably converge on whatever gripe you have against academia and atheism and then we can skip the generalities.

Equivocation of theism with attacks on the ‘sanctity of education’ and gripes against academia is fallacious.
 
Originally Posted by river
Oh I know there is a being(s) with greater knowledge than Humanity has privy too , at least generally

Investigations into the spectrum of many aspects of experiences leaves no doubt

A deity to show respect to , a deity that has Humanity interests foremost , I have found , Gnosticism

But even that thinking , that metaphysics , is not good enough for me

What I want and strive for is a solid based philosophy , that puts Humanity First , anything less is unacceptable , for infinity


What unacceptable to you? That's pretty arrogant isn't it to think you are so important in the scheme of things. Why do feel the way you do?

1) unacceptable to me is god first Humanity second

2) making Humanity first has nothing to do with arrogance but a Natural attitude towards ones being

It is UnNatural to think otherwise

3) I'm Human

Lastly my spirituality is based on the Human Spirit
 
@Combo

Combo, in the "Real World", do you talk the same "talk" as you Post in this Thread?

Combo, in the "Real World", does anyone listen to you? Do those who listen take you seriously?

Combo, in the "Real World", are you a Professor of Theology or Anthropology or History?

Combo, in the "Real World", are you a PHD or in College or in High School?

Combo, in the "Real World", are you a Theosophist?

Combo, in the "Real World", do you Preach and Attempt to Ridicule?

Combo, in the "Real World", do you also Fail Miserably at Preaching and Attempting to Ridicule?
 
@Combo

Combo, in the "Real World", do you talk the same "talk" as you Post in this Thread?

Combo, in the "Real World", does anyone listen to you? Do those who listen take you seriously?

Combo, in the "Real World", are you a Professor of Theology or Anthropology or History?

Combo, in the "Real World", are you a PHD or in College or in High School?

Combo, in the "Real World", are you a Theosophist?

Combo, in the "Real World", do you Preach and Attempt to Ridicule?

Combo, in the "Real World", do you also Fail Miserably at Preaching and Attempting to Ridicule?

Ah, well that would be telling.
 
Ah, well that would be telling.



Combo, you have already done "all the telling" - just want a little background so I'll know which "Evangelists Tent" is yours - or should I just look for the one that everyone else is either "Fleeing" or "Ignoring"?
 
Ultimately there is no room for an all powerful god in our universe, he, she or it would be subjet to the rules of the universe and therfore not all powerful, and nothing can exist outside so it is a slam dunk. Pure Science. It is antiquated thinking that keeps god "alive" and that is all.
 
God is incomprehensible to man, however the inability of man to comprehend God does not disprove the existence of God.

The reality is a lot of people in various religions believe:

A) There is a God
B) That they know and comprehend his/her plan
C) That God is not incomprehensible to them
D) Everything one knows about God is taught and imagined
E)Plants cannot be taught fallacy so in that way atheists and plants are alike
F)If man cannot comprehend God how and why did he invent him/her?

So God is not only incomprehensible but is as of yet imperceivable, yet many say they not only comprehend but are able see God work miracles everyday. Are they lying Combo?
 
More like:
A plant is incomprehensible to a rock, however the inability of a rock to comprehend the plant does not disprove the existence of the plant.
An animal is incomprehensible to a plant, however the inability of a plant to comprehend the animal does not disprove the existence of the animal.
[...]
God is incomprehensible to man, however the inability of man to comprehend God does not disprove the existence of God.

Neither a plant nor a rock have the ability to comprehend anything, so your analogy doesn't work.

You must also demonstrate that there is a God and that it is comprehensible, which you haven't done. We just have to take your word for it for your claim to make any sense.
 
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