just imagine yourself in your favorite chair by a fire place
And you know this because you were a worm in a previous life ?
Rational Certainty
- Thread starter ggazoo
- Start date
And you know this because you were a worm in a previous life ?
My first reaction to this is that it is like telling a 40-year old couch potato to prepare for a marathon in one week - the person will be overwhelmed and most likely won't do even the trainings they otherwise could do.
The nine-fold process you sketch out above to me seems overwhelming and frustrating. Pride and denial jump in to compensate and eventually make me think the whole nine-fold process could and should be carried out in an hour or less ... when, after an hour, it becomes obvious that it can't, pride and denial go one step further and make me think the whole nine-fold process has been carried out in an hour or less ... and then I do nothing further, assuming I have attained what there was to attain ...
I am not arguing with you or the nine-fold process, I am just stating what happens when I take up the practice. Although over the years, there has been a change and the loop that was previously one hour long at a time has extended to a week or so at a time. - That is the current scope of my patience and willingness to persevere with something.
:sleep:
I've read it, thank you.
And this also seems to require a certain level of concentration.
Myles
erm - and the rest of it that some how evaded your copy/paste
"................and involved to be obedient to such a simple statement."
erm - and the rest of it that some how evaded your copy/paste
"................and involved to be obedient to such a simple statement."
for someone who has problems with mere "plausible explanations", you sure aren't shy about letting a few rip when it suits your cause
No
I know this because I understand how the senses of enjoyment are grouped around a particular type of mind that finds its expression in a particular species of life.
Certainly explains why we wouldn't be happy to sit down to a bowl of dry bamboo .... unless we were a termite.
sometimes after hearing about the details of spiritual practices people commonly inquire "well how much do I have to do?"My first reaction to this is that it is like telling a 40-year old couch potato to prepare for a marathon in one week - the person will be overwhelmed and most likely won't do even the trainings they otherwise could do.
The nine-fold process you sketch out above to me seems overwhelming and frustrating. Pride and denial jump in to compensate and eventually make me think the whole nine-fold process could and should be carried out in an hour or less ... when, after an hour, it becomes obvious that it can't, pride and denial go one step further and make me think the whole nine-fold process has been carried out in an hour or less ... and then I do nothing further, assuming I have attained what there was to attain ...
I am not arguing with you or the nine-fold process, I am just stating what happens when I take up the practice. Although over the years, there has been a change and the loop that was previously one hour long at a time has extended to a week or so at a time. - That is the current scope of my patience and willingness to persevere with something.
:sleep:
It kind of reveals that they are working with the idea that the real purpose of life lies in getting some sort of material facility and that spiritual life is a temporary diversion or something.
Actually as one advances in spiritual life the practices become more and more consuming, since the goal lies in developing pure unadulterated love for god.
Naturally, this sounds kind of horrifying to us in conditioned life, due to our material attachments.
So the slow long haul of spiritual life is simply that - working through our issues of attachment in this world.
One of the extensive commentaries (Madhurya Kadambini) has this to offer about our on again/off again approach to spiritual life. (these issues strike at the position of bhajana kriya and are what makes spiritual life commonly an issue of "many many many lifetimes")
utsahamayi (sudden enthusiasm) - When a young student begins higher education he is very proud, thinking himself to be a praiseworthy scholar. Such thoughts encourage the student to apply himself and to perform well. Similarly, when a novice commences spiritual life he takes to it so enthusiastically, thinking himself to be somebody special.
ghana-tarald (sometimes enthusiastic, sometimes lethargic) - At times the student concentrates deeply on his studies, but sometimes, because of his inability to understand something, he becomes apathetic. In devotional activities the neophyte goes through similar spells of opposing attitudes sometimes enthusiasm, other times lethargy.
vyudha- vikalpa (a stage when doubts assail one's resolve) - an interesting stage on the path of spiritual life where the devotee is overwhelmed by (apparently) conflicting recommendations on how to best approach spiritual life - eg should I establish myself in household life or renunciation (there are scriptural statements that glorify and condemn both positions) etc etc
visaya-sangara (a stage of internal tug-of-war with material sense enjoyment) - the devotee wages a war against his desire for sense gratification: sometimes the victor, sometimes the defeated. When he does fall victim, the devotee at this stage of unsteady devotional service still feels regret and revulsion at his weakness.
niyamaksama (although one practises regularly, full justice is still not done to the process) - Daily one makes vows to increase their spiritual output, but at the last moment one is unable to honor them. The difference between visayasangara and niyamaksama is that in the former the devotee is helpless to give up material sense pleasures, and in the latter he is unable to increase and improve his devotional activities.
taranga-rangini (attachment to wealth, adoration, distinction, and so on). - The devotee himself becomes a treasure-house of good qualities and mercy. These characteristics, in turn, attract people who, as a result, crown the devotee with wealth, adoration, distinction and position. Although these accolades come to him as by-products of spiritual life they nevertheless may stunt the spontaneous growth of pure devotion if he uses them for his self-aggrandizement. Taranga means “waves” and rangini means “play”. So literally it means "to play in the by-products of spiritual life".
the right concentration comes from the right practice - the more we practice, the more our concentration becomes stronger - its not that one sits back from it and has a good think about it and begins when they finally have it all worked out. That will never work in a million years.
The good thing to remember is that the path of spiritual life has already been traversed and so there is always information available to indicate where one is at and exactly what challenges one can expect to face
Last edited:
Myles
erm - and the rest of it that some how evaded your copy/paste
"................and involved to be obedient to such a simple statement."
for someone who has problems with mere "plausible explanations", you sure aren't shy about letting a few rip when it suits your cause
And your evience for karma and rebirth is ?
So how do you know what makes a termite " happy" ? What does it mean to be a happy termite ?
practice
what else?
well place a bowl of bamboo in front of a termite and a bowl of fruit loops and see which one it goes for
As an alternative, you could reflect on the possibility whether karma and rebirth make sense - and that if they do, how this affects the way a person will lead their life.
For example, read Bhikkhu Bodhi's Does rebirth make sense? -
...
In this essay I won't be arguing the case for the scientific validity of rebirth. Instead, I wish to show that the idea of rebirth makes sense. I will be contending that it "makes sense" in two ways: first, in that it is intelligible, having meaning both intrinsically and in relation to the Dhamma as a whole; and second, in that it helps us to make sense, to understand our own place in the world.
...
i am certain.
i acquired that certainty through a relationship with him. and it was developed based on what i experienced.
and yeah, i had to put myself out there to have it. i mean, why not? i figured what is a more important question to answer in this life? and i think that's what stops people from doing it many times. it's too consequential. it's one thing to talk about him, it's another to know him. then all the chitter chatter ends, and you actually have to live it...commit.
i acquired that certainty through a relationship with him. and it was developed based on what i experienced.
and yeah, i had to put myself out there to have it. i mean, why not? i figured what is a more important question to answer in this life? and i think that's what stops people from doing it many times. it's too consequential. it's one thing to talk about him, it's another to know him. then all the chitter chatter ends, and you actually have to live it...commit.
Not only that. There is another pressing question - "When can I expect to get some relevant results?"
I don't think it is out of line to measure one's practice in terms of relevant results - after all, if one doesn't check what one is doing, whether one is doing it right or not, then one might as well not practice at all.
I wish to have a story like this to tell, and soon - "I was really confused and stressed out and troubled and messed up and I had no idea about the meaning of life or what to do. But then I took up meditation/had a revelation/found God, and now I am fine and cured and nothing is wrong."
This might be a confused question, but from where I am, it seems perfectly reasonable: Is there such a thing as an "inbetween attitude", and what would such an attitude be? - That is, an attitude that one could have between the time of still being an atheist and the time of coming to firmly believe in God, an attitude that would allow one at least some modicum of happiness and determination despite lacking realization -?
Is there a way a person could think of themselves while they still have uncertainty about God, but have the desire to know the Truth; a way to think of themselves that wouldn't hinder their progress, but also wouldn't make them assume too much?
Something like "I am someone on the path to Liberation" - although this isn't always true.
That's no answer. What does onew need to practise ? Is it a question of telling onself over and over that karma and rebirth exist until one has brainwashed onself into believing.
What objective evidence can you offer ,or are you saying that one must believe it to begin with.
There was a time when it made sense to believe the earth was flat and that the sun orbited the earth. Today , we know better. What objective evidence supports your belief ? Remember, that there are plenty of othere beliefs that make sense to those who adhere to them. To distinguish truth from fallacy hard objective evidence is necessary.
well place a bowl of bamboo in front of a termite and a bowl of fruit loops and see which one it goes for
That is not evidence that the termite is happy, It is evidence of an anthropomorphism.
Many people think karma means cause and effect, or that previous actions or lives are the cause present conditions. But the word karma actually just means "doing". So when I say it's your karma it means "it's your doing".
But like the vedas say, there is no doer.
Last edited:
what practice have you applied to begin discussion of evidence?
subsist off dry bamboo for three months and get back to us with the results ....
if you reflect on your existence and see yourself as an eternal part and parcel of god, distinct from material designations of mind and body and eternally dependent on god, then there is no issue of karma.
If however, you reflect on your existence and find yourself confounded by issues of hankering and lamentation, karma is right in your arena, since thats the symptom that the mind has thoroughly developed an attachment to being the "doer"
BG 3.47 The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.
as opposed to
BG 18.54 One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.
etc etc
Does the same apply to a personal relationship with Xenu?