Raithere rambles on about religion
- Thread starter Raithere
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hef
you are here and you have purpose and cause, everthing does, and you have been designed as such, so believe in YOUR purpose and cause and strive to meet it, and you'll be looked at very favorably by your designer whatever it is and whether it is a cosmo or much bigger.
to see an obviously strong willed poster submit to some unknown being is both hilarious and sad at the same time. i grieve for your ass
you are here and you have purpose and cause, everthing does, and you have been designed as such, so believe in YOUR purpose and cause and strive to meet it, and you'll be looked at very favorably by your designer whatever it is and whether it is a cosmo or much bigger.
to see an obviously strong willed poster submit to some unknown being is both hilarious and sad at the same time. i grieve for your ass
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Thanks again, well said , and thank God(s) for Panama.
First before we start fighting and we will there is no stopping that, kiss your adorable girls for me.
Sure Wes, It's not easy, but why do you diss the muslim faith, it's the faith that confirmed what you just said. It talked about the steep straight path, such a narrow path that extremism and shallowness don't fit on, a path on which is perfectly balanced in all aspects, and if you know that the path is steep and straight and narrow, don't you think a little guidance would be helpful.
My understanding doesn't stem from the fact that I'm a muslim. Actually, I was not taught Islam in school and didn't grow up in a conventional muslim way, I was busy getting skin burns on the uneven bars, ear aches from 3 hours of swimming in the morning, and spending four hours a night to perfect mozart bumble bee. I don't claim to be able to lead anyone, actually if I felt that I'm leading someone, I get this terrible turn off to discuss the subject and I start working in reverse to undo any unintentional brain washing. I'm an avid believer that a person must understand for themselves to have a strong grasp on things. I'm merely conversing with you guys to test my own understanding, but I have no desire whatsoever to see you understand.
Exactly wes, I was an Atheist too all my life and that enabeld me to block religion thoughts that was not needed at my young age. My parents and coaches were my god and I listened to them and I did well. I deemed religion stupid and that was the justification I gave myself for ignoring that aspect of life and pushing forward. But slowly when my parents and others influence diminished in my life, my spiritual procrastination creeped on me and showed me that life is not all about me trying hard and following mentors. Without a proper religious understanding of my life and purpose, I would have gone purely mad.
Sure Wes, It's not easy, but why do you diss the muslim faith, it's the faith that confirmed what you just said. It talked about the steep straight path, such a narrow path that extremism and shallowness don't fit on, a path on which is perfectly balanced in all aspects, and if you know that the path is steep and straight and narrow, don't you think a little guidance would be helpful.
My understanding doesn't stem from the fact that I'm a muslim. Actually, I was not taught Islam in school and didn't grow up in a conventional muslim way, I was busy getting skin burns on the uneven bars, ear aches from 3 hours of swimming in the morning, and spending four hours a night to perfect mozart bumble bee. I don't claim to be able to lead anyone, actually if I felt that I'm leading someone, I get this terrible turn off to discuss the subject and I start working in reverse to undo any unintentional brain washing. I'm an avid believer that a person must understand for themselves to have a strong grasp on things. I'm merely conversing with you guys to test my own understanding, but I have no desire whatsoever to see you understand.
Exactly wes, I was an Atheist too all my life and that enabeld me to block religion thoughts that was not needed at my young age. My parents and coaches were my god and I listened to them and I did well. I deemed religion stupid and that was the justification I gave myself for ignoring that aspect of life and pushing forward. But slowly when my parents and others influence diminished in my life, my spiritual procrastination creeped on me and showed me that life is not all about me trying hard and following mentors. Without a proper religious understanding of my life and purpose, I would have gone purely mad.
Raithere, you tend to cream you posters pretty good, have mercy.
Here we go,
The reason of our lack of knowledge is actually very powerful. It is a great sign of our subjection to another force that is more knowledgable than us. It is a sign of the existance of god.
The Quran doesn't teach that god is undefinable or definable for that matter, it just challenges us to understand the universe and how it works and tells that we as one of the creations of god will never understand the biggest picture. I agree that religion is about us, but without believe in the concept of creator god and the unity of that god, one is really lost in all his/her missions including science and life issues.
Sure, now god is a perception because you have perception, later when you lack perception when you are dead, god will be a reality to you, just like he's a reality to the rocks, the platents, and all other matters.
To a theist the deeper questions always result in further submittion to that unified force and agrees with our teachings that god is so great and perfect. I can always throw the unexplained in the box of god. For an Atheist the deeper questions result in puzzelment, negative energy, contradictions, entropy, ect....
This is impossible and a man with your great mind shouldn't think such simple thoughts. Unity is never projected from infinite sources, but from a point we may project infinit lines. Remeber geometry Raith.
Religion is not about praying to Mecca, observing Sabbath, ect. In islam, you may go to mecca only once in your life time if you can afford it, but it's not a requirement at all, and beautifull people who submitted to god never went to Mecca. Something that might be an interest to you, Mecca contains the place of the birth of Abraham and mount arafat which is believed to be the home of Adam and Eve....It's such an interesting place.
My experience doesn't warrant that. No matter how much you spiritually procrastinate to pursuit your life, the questions of religion will always haunt you to your death bed.
God is our creator and sustainer for sure, and there is no need to study him in more detail, it's confusing.
~Raithere
Here we go,
The reason of our lack of knowledge is actually very powerful. It is a great sign of our subjection to another force that is more knowledgable than us. It is a sign of the existance of god.
The Quran doesn't teach that god is undefinable or definable for that matter, it just challenges us to understand the universe and how it works and tells that we as one of the creations of god will never understand the biggest picture. I agree that religion is about us, but without believe in the concept of creator god and the unity of that god, one is really lost in all his/her missions including science and life issues.
Sure, now god is a perception because you have perception, later when you lack perception when you are dead, god will be a reality to you, just like he's a reality to the rocks, the platents, and all other matters.
To a theist the deeper questions always result in further submittion to that unified force and agrees with our teachings that god is so great and perfect. I can always throw the unexplained in the box of god. For an Atheist the deeper questions result in puzzelment, negative energy, contradictions, entropy, ect....
This is impossible and a man with your great mind shouldn't think such simple thoughts. Unity is never projected from infinite sources, but from a point we may project infinit lines. Remeber geometry Raith.
Religion is not about praying to Mecca, observing Sabbath, ect. In islam, you may go to mecca only once in your life time if you can afford it, but it's not a requirement at all, and beautifull people who submitted to god never went to Mecca. Something that might be an interest to you, Mecca contains the place of the birth of Abraham and mount arafat which is believed to be the home of Adam and Eve....It's such an interesting place.
My experience doesn't warrant that. No matter how much you spiritually procrastinate to pursuit your life, the questions of religion will always haunt you to your death bed.
God is our creator and sustainer for sure, and there is no need to study him in more detail, it's confusing.
~Raithere
Flores, I hate to be soft, but I think you know you have my respect... so I won't take our fights personally. They're just idealogical differences. As you gracefully point out, our silly differences here aren't nearly as important and loving our adorable children. So please... kissies for your beautiful kids too. I just gave my girls much kissies and hugs about 10 minutes ago.
I can't stand religions because they are based on lies.
A quick for instance: The abrahamic religions are based on the assumption "the abrahamic god exists". The abrahamic god cannot be shown to exist. As such, the proper response to the question "is there an abrahamic god?" should be at best "I don't know", yet the religions require that you have faith that there is. To a discerning mind, that sets off some warning signals.
Actually, I think it harmful. Whom would you consider qualified to guide me? The person offereing such guidance would certainly have some sort of agenda no? Perhaps getting me to contribute to their organization in exchange for such guidance? There's nothing wrong with and exchange of goods and services but I have no demand for such things as relgions might offer. Frankly, I'm more insightful regarding that type of thinking than most of the people I've met. So much so that I have to come here to find people who are actually stimulating regarding such topics... but even here they are rare eh?
A busy girl may need a little guidance later eh? She missed out on time to think for herself when she was young so later, when she starts to try.. she realizes the foundation isn't there?
Well, we're all doing the same thing Flores. It's okay. My point was that your comment was wrong. Just because you could not find the "truths" you desire down the path of aithiesm.. doesn't mean it's not the right path. For instance IMO, if you are truly interested in truth, you desire truth regardless of the path eh? Why then do you need a religion to guide you? You can't find the path for yourself? Eh, as you wish.
Aitheism helped you block religion thoughts? That seems like a strange way to put it.
Hmm.. what aspect of your life? You mean the one that asks the hard questions? So now you think Islam answers all those questions? Do you care if the answers are right?
But then you substituted one for another no?
I went through a period when I was 16 where I felt crazy cuz I couldn't figure it out. The whole "what's the point?" thing. After a long time of thinking I realized "the point is what I make it". *shrug*
I know I sometimes come across kind of strong but it's always in the spirit of sharing and learning. I attempt to challenge people and hope (and often am) challenged in return.
I believe in humility before the immensity of the Universe and the unknown but not subjugation to it. But perhaps this is simply a difference in terminology. I am strongly influenced by Taoist philosophy which teaches that to struggle against the natural "way of things" is what causes discord and suffering. This might be perceived as submission but that word gives a sense of threat that I do not believe exists. Taoism is also very active and submission gives the impression of passivity.
I just don't see it. I see what appears to be a majority of people who do hold these beliefs fumbling around in ignorance; locked into little circles of self-contradictory or self-asserting arguments. Those that reject traditional explanations seem to generally have a broader grasp.
When I am dead, I will cease to be me. Like a drop of rain in the ocean, what I was comprised of will disperse and only my effect will continue beyond me. This is why individual life is so precious. This is where the value of human life comes from.
I disagree. For an Atheist, the deeper questions and the unknown often result in awe, wonder, curiosity, and humility. Confusion, negativity, emotional strife and suffering come from insisting upon absolutes. To quote from my favorite author "By your belief in granular singularities, you deny all movement evolutionary or devolutionary. Belief fixes a granular universe and causes that universe to persist. Nothing can be allowed to change because that way your non-moving universe vanishes. But it moves of itself when you do not move. It evolves beyond you and is no longer accessible to you." ("Heretics of Dune" by Frank Herbert) But if one remains flexible one cannot be shattered by new facts, revelations, or paradigm shifts. Although I think many atheist have an unhealthy obsession with rejecting and eliminating religion I think this is reactive, in response to some of the religious extremes we see.
It's true though and not at all simple. Unity is not projected from anywhere, it is everywhere. You and I are not separate in any ultimate sense; we're simply definable patterns within a larger system of patterns. Like a particular swirl of smoke within a cloud of smoke. This state simply is. What we perceive as material objects are really only particular configurations of energy and force which do not have objective properties. Objectivity is an emergent property, not an intrinsic one.
I would love to go there. Perhaps someday when things are not so dangerous in that area of the world I will.
I’m really not saying that it should. Each of us has our own experiences and have developed or adopted methods that work for us and that is fine. It’s quite obvious that you have spent a considerable amount of time contemplating your beliefs. But all too often people adopt or are indoctrinated into a religion without understanding and I find this dangerous. And there are strong trends in some religious interpretations that literally admonish one for posing any questions at all. This I find supremely dangerous. Ignorance is the basis of all the violence in the world.
But there is a need to study and think about the structures we build upon that foundation. Religion plays a powerful role in politics and often acquires constructs that are purely political in nature. It also often accumulates myths, superstition, and social biases. These things can twist a religion into something dreadful.
~Raithere
Silence from the peanut gallery
The astounding silence coming from my corner on this subject came about at first because it seemed to me that you had your hands full with a few other issues people chose to take.
The thing is, I hate playing cheerleader. There's not much for me to say at all. I'm hesitant even to say, "Good show," because you're at a point where approval is officially beside the point. Your topic post nails it as squarely as I've seen, and yes, I do feel condescending in some way if I tell you that you "got it right".
Because that's sort of the judgment, but what right have I?
Now that the topic has fallen down the ladder some, it's time to start raking the gems from the sand.
Applause, a bong rip, and a beer for you.
:m:,
Tiassa
The astounding silence coming from my corner on this subject came about at first because it seemed to me that you had your hands full with a few other issues people chose to take.
The thing is, I hate playing cheerleader. There's not much for me to say at all. I'm hesitant even to say, "Good show," because you're at a point where approval is officially beside the point. Your topic post nails it as squarely as I've seen, and yes, I do feel condescending in some way if I tell you that you "got it right".
Because that's sort of the judgment, but what right have I?
Now that the topic has fallen down the ladder some, it's time to start raking the gems from the sand.
Applause, a bong rip, and a beer for you.
:m:,
Tiassa