Questions for Atheists

[VitalOne]

I'm just curious...

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

Those are my questions, just curious really.

 

[hockeywings]

I'm just curious...

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

Those are my questions, just curious really.

1. I usually do not try to convince others unless they engage me in the discussion. But I could understand why other athiests would want to convince others. It would make the world a better place, religion will hinder a person's ability to think which affects everyone around them.

2. There is no definite proof for it. Period

3. I have heard MILLIONS of different versions of god. I dismiss all supernatural ones, and i would have to go case by case on any others.

4. I would imagine that just like you like being comfortable, things work best in certain situations. I do not know what you are really asking sorry.

5. Moral values? hmmm, I do not think it is fair to judge yourself, but I try to be nice, dont cheat steal that kind of stuff. Whats the point? If there is no afterlife then that means our short time here is ALL we have I am sure that everyone wants to be happy and their friends/family to be happy. The easiest way to be happy is to be good.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

1. I usually do not try to convince others unless they engage me in the discussion. But I could understand why other athiests would want to convince others. It would make the world a better place, religion will hinder a person's ability to think which affects everyone around them.

2. There is no definite proof for it. Period

3. I have heard MILLIONS of different versions of god. I dismiss all supernatural ones, and i would have to go case by case on any others.

4. I would imagine that just like you like being comfortable, things work best in certain situations. I do not know what you are really asking sorry.

5. Moral values? hmmm, I do not think it is fair to judge yourself, but I try to be nice, dont cheat steal that kind of stuff. Whats the point? If there is no afterlife then that means our short time here is ALL we have I am sure that everyone wants to be happy and their friends/family to be happy. The easiest way to be happy is to be good.

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M*W: Welcome to sciforums, hockeywings! I can tell that you are on the sapient side of life. I agree with your statements and wanted to add a few.

1. I believe it is better to be atheistic than to believe in a fantasy. I do not believe in organized religions, because of their mind-control and financial motives.

2. There is no definite proof of God. That's because people have been brainwashed (and I won't put the total blame on Cecil B. DeMille here), because for thousands of years before Cecil, people were brainwashed to believe in a certain typified God. I think people have been looking for God in all the wrong places, and this God is NOT believeable. I say we look within the human spirit and there is God. Maybe I'm wrong, but, hey, at least we KNOW we're here, right? The human potential is truly God-like. I rest my case.

3. Okay, we went the fantasy route which can't be proven. Let's now look at the tangible proof. All we know is that we DO exist, but we don't in fact know exactly why we exist or what our purpose is. This is where we need to further delve.

4. I cannot reply to this question, because I don't remember what the comment was about. I will say here that WE are not a fantasy. WE are real. We need to go from here to find out WHY?

5. People are basically "good." That means to me that people are basically "god." From that point, I say then that people must BE "god." The power of humanity is overwhelming. The presence of humanity is everywhere. The knowledge of humanity is earth shaking! Between the all of humanity, 100% of our brain power is active and useful. What other creation in nature is capable of being a vessel for the One Spirit of God? Just like the song says, "I am a rock. I am an island." I say, "I am co-creator of the universe."

I look forward to many more posts by you! Thanks!

 

[Jan Ardena]

I'm not an atheist, but i will answer anyways..

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

Because atheism is the new, materialistic (sign of the times), institutionalised religion and the natural aim of religions is to convert souls. (in this case minds)

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

Because it is not in the interest of the cause.

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

All concepts. Perhaps Buddism is the closest thing to any form of acceptance.

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

My own perspective is that matter cannot "want" anything as it is not conscious.

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

1) morals are relative
2) morals are born out of common-sense
3) why do we need morals?
4) the morals of religion have nothing to do with a god or gods, as these are just figments of primitive imagination.
5) the afterlife concept is just comfy-zone factor designed to keep the primitives happy.

Jan Ardena.

 

[Katazia]

Vitalone,

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

Generally atheists are not “evangelical”, and do not have a policy of trying to convert theists. Christianity is perhaps the worst offender in that its doctrines specifically require its adherents to attempt to convert non-believers whether their victims are interested or not – that I find offensive and undesirably intrusive.

Most atheists do not usually maintain that any religion is particularly false but rather that they are unproven and therefore of dubious value.

But of more importance is the harm caused by allowing intrusive and dominant religious institutions, and often politically motivated, to sell and indoctrinate others into accepting belief systems that have more than a distinct possibility of being quite wrong.

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

You are referring to the “strong” atheist position as if this is the most typical, it is not. I recommend you read the start of the sticky thread in this forum that defines atheism.

What is in-between exists and does not exist? There is no such thing as a middle position. The so-called agnostic’s ‘don’t know’ is the same as not believing that a god exists.

The essential nature of atheism is concerned with the disbelief in the theistic position. It is one of healthy and rational skepticism, and most certainly open-minded regarding not only theistic possibilities but many other and perhaps more complex and unimaginable possibilities.

But consider the theist position regarding open-mindedness: Their claim is that God did it and there is no other possibility. This is the epitome of closed mindedness. So be careful when accusing atheists of not being open minded; you could not be further from the truth.

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

Please update your understanding of atheism. It has little if anything to do with denial. But how do you define popular? Those religions only account for one third of the world population. Most of the world has other beliefs, and by that criteria we could claim that the Judeo-Christian religions are unpopular.

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

The science of physics goes a long way to explain this. But matter has no capability of ‘wanting’ anything; it simply forms according to the four basic forces.

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

Humans have evolved with strong survival instincts; otherwise we would have become extinct a long time ago. Our superior intelligence allows us to reason in favor of actions that increase or maintain our survival. For example we have largely agreed between ourselves that if we do not want to be murdered then we should not murder others since they are likely to feel the same. What matters of course, at the simplest and basic level is personal survival; and creating supportive communities advances those desires and needs.

In contrast we can argue that a belief in an afterlife is conducive to moral decrepitude. Such beliefs go against the evolutionary instincts to struggle and improve our condition and prolong life. Once we accept that life on earth is only temporary and that our true destiny is to live in a paradise after death then life on earth really doesn’t matter and there is little point in struggling. Many suicides occur based on this reasoning.

Fortunately our scientists, who are dominantly non-believers and atheists, are consistently and continuously finding new ways to improve and prolong real life and its quality. At the same time religion has inspired many to become suicide bombers because these unfortunate people believe that by killing themselves and others that they will be rewarded in a mythical afterlife.

We could also argue that war continues to exist because so many believe that if they die for a good cause then they too will be rewarded in a heavenly paradise. The atheist has no such belief and if more people could be convinced that the idea of an afterlife is foolish then far fewer would be prepared to take part in war and perhaps we could finally achieve world peace.

Kat

 

[James R]

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

It's only hypocritical if you go around saying nobody should try to convert others, and then you try to convert others.

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

Weak atheists keep an open mind. It is only the strong atheists, who are in the minority, who absolutely deny the possibility of the existence of gods.

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

Atheists do not believe in any god(s).

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

Usually they settle into a state of lowest energy.

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

Are you claiming that life can only be meaningful if there is an afterlife? If so, then why try to achieve anything in your life?

Or maybe you're saying if there's no god then anything goes morally. If so, perhaps you could explain why.

 

[Q25]

I'm just curious...
5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

life matters,
and if you go around hurting/stealing doing bad shit,eventualy what goes around comes around to bite you on the a@@ or worse
so it makes a common sense to be good/honest,dont you think?

 

[SwedishFish]

i'll try to answer the questions as you have so graciously asked them. but there is a problem since they are worded such that you assume too much and it's not quite true of atheists. but i'll do my best.

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?
>>the point i suppose is for the same exact reasons missionaries murder innocent people. not that i do it, but you didn't ask if i did. yes it is hypocritical, somewhat.

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?
>>i suppose complete denial is the most logical belief. i however, tend to believe that the nature of the universe is unknowable so pretty much anything goes, and it does because we are sitting here now debating religion. isn't it wonderful that we can do that?

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?
>>just popular images of "god". they are all highly illogical and most improbable. we can't know the nature of the universe so people can come up with any interpretation they like, just as i can dismiss others' interpretations and come up with my own. i just happen to think my own more logical.

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')
>>'just do'? that's silly. physics explains this quite elegantly and what it doesn't explain, it hasn't figured out yet as in any field of science. i would attempt to answer the why but there are people here much more qualified for that, as i only have high school physics to go from.

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?
>>the subject of morals is actually a fascinating area of social psychology. the type of infantile morals you're talking about, the ones we follow to avoid a cosmic spanking, are those found in the smallest children and undeveloped people. most people fall into this category. a couple steps beyond that are when we reason morals. we know why we do something because we use our logic to determine why it is wrong or right. they don't always follow conventional (religious) rules. i do believe this is where i fall. i always try to be better person in my own definition of it. the highest form of morality is where only people like ghandi and jesus fall. it is having such a well developed sense of morals that you believe in so highly you would sacrifice yourself in carrying them out, but not blindly or stupidly. your question only matters if the highest level of morality you ever reach is childlike. unfortunately, that is the highest most people ever get. i blame organized religion.

 

[Q25]

I'm not an atheist, but i will answer anyways..

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

Because atheism is the new, materialistic (sign of the times), institutionalised religion and the natural aim of religions is to convert souls. (in this case minds)
.

atheism is not a religion!
it has no gods to worship,no churches and no tax exempt status,so how can you call it materialistic ??

 

[Ellimist]

Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

Saying "just do" would be the theist way of thinking, and you are asking the atheist point of view, remember?

Anyway. Forms of matter. You mean solid, liquid, gas, and plasma, I assume.

In the most general sense, they are what they are because the elements that compose them are the most stable in those configurations, based on temperature.

For example:
This is really really easy.
Water.

Between 33 degrees F and 211 degrees F, water is a liquid.
Below and above those numbers, respectively, it is frozen or gaseous.

When it is frozen, the atoms get lined up, stability, and stop moving (mostly) because temperature is the average amount of molecular motion. When the temperature drops, motion goes down. Freezing.

When it is boiling and becomes gaseous, the molecules are moving too much, they cannot stick together, they are unstable, so then the water becomes steam.

I hope this has explained it sufficiently for you.

 

[mrmufin]

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

I'm not trying to convert anyone. Atheism is not an affirmative system of beliefs. If the belief system that one subscribes to can't weather the honest interrogation presented by those who do not share it, it's probably not worth believing.

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

Is there "definite proof" that Thor, Zeus, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Krishna, Medusa, Ra, Odin and the monsters in my closet don't exist? Is there "definitive proof" for/against ice cream factories on Titan? Have 20th century physicists, for example, demonstrated a particular closed-mindedness by "denying the existence" of the luminiferous ether in light of the 1887 experiments by Albert Michelson and William Morley?

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

I don't "deny" any god concept, as denial would imply my prior acceptance of a god concept beyond the hypothetical realm. And prior to acceptance of said god concept, I'll need clear and convincing evidence for belief. Hence my personal lack of belief in ice cream factories on Titan.

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

See the second law of thermodynamics. It should be clearly described in any physics text book.

5. What are your moral values?

Essentially, to treat others as I would like to be treated.

What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

Rephrased: what's the point of having any values if there is an afterlife? Why not just wait till your dead to be a decent person?

I am not convinced that there is an afterlife, but I am convinced that my present life exists beyond the hypothetical. Thus my values are applied - and continuously tested - herein, where I can evaluate their effectiveness.

Regards,
mrmufin

 

[Jan Ardena]

Q25

atheism is not a religion!

You're right, atheism on its own is not a religion, but it forms part of the philospohical basis of secular-humanism which is vast becoming the new institutionalised, atheist religion. One description of religion by websters dictionary is;
a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices.
And when we look at the meaning of “religious”, one meaning is;

1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

Putting aside “a diety” for the moment, we see that the ultimate reality in the mind of a secular-humanist is nature, and the way to obtain ultimate knowledge of nature is through “modern science”, thus there is faith in modern scientists. Secular-humanism has its agenda for the world ready and waiting, it works exactly the same way the institution of christianty works, (which I believe to be as Godless as secular-humanism), in that it will find its way into the very heart of societal life, education, ethics, politics etc…. nobody will escape its grasp.

it has no gods to worship,no churches and no tax exempt status,so how can you call it materialistic ??

When it comes to such institutions, one word can be replaced with another quite easily, as long as it is backed up by other credible institutions, thereby deeming the previous word; old-fashioned, irrelevant, not with-it etc….
In this case they change the word god/gods to the human spirit, effort, nature and so on.

As regard churches or buildings, there is no need of them, especially when you have the media, the internet, the education system under your control.

By appearing to be the opposite of how former institutions acted will be the key to their rise.

I call it materialistic because the core belief of the atheist is that unless you can empirically prove that God or souls exist, then I am nothing more than a machine, made of material substances and governed only by the laws of nature.

Jan Ardena.

 

[James R]

Jan:

Given that only around 4% of Americans identify themselves as atheists, what makes you think that secular humanism will find its way into the very heart of societal life, education, politics etc.?

 

[Godless]

Ok! I'll only post the answers in order to not repeat questions.

1: Atheist don't convert anyone, they are here to debate some change their minds some athiest become theists again, the main thing is athiest are not organized to convert anyone to atheism philosophical point of view.

2: Strong athiest here!!. First of all there is no defenetion to the term "god" in oder to claim an existent or lack thereof one has to have identity of the entity, one can't claim an existent from a negative standard. If I were to claim a god did not exist, I contradict my self, cause I would imply knowledge of what a god is.

3: What is god? Popular? Zeus was popular once why not claim he the supreme being?. Yes all gods a mythological, unprovable, and contradictory.

4: I'm not into physics, I'm just an atheist. I dont think matter has any choices they fall into the enanemate objects. Only volitional entities have choices. So in essense matter don't have wants or needs.

5: Moral values are not the standard of the church look at history! Do you call the Inquisitions moral, how about burning women as witches?.
My morality is simple treat others as you would like to be treated.

I don't believe in an "after-life" the term is contradictory. I live I die. Period. Of the mythological after-life I believe this to be a ploy, by churches and userpers to "control" the masses. Live by our code, and you shall be rewarded. What if that code is amoral? don't you think suitside bombers are amoral? they do it for "Allah!". Another mythological god, what is stoping the west from soon adopting the same rhetoric?. Wait a minute some do! George believes god told him to atack Irag!! LOL.

Godless.

 

[Godless]

James by last count of atheist in the US it was somewhere near the .06% an increase to say 4% would be a significant jump I would say. However my source is kind of old so you may be right!.

Godless.

 

[Datura]

I'm just curious...

1. What's the point of trying to convert theists into atheists (saying a religion is false) when you don't like it when theists try to convert atheists? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't try to convert people. I'll talk to people about my beliefs when asked, and that's it.

2. If there's no definite proof that god doesn't exist, or does exist, why deny the existance of god instead of having an open-mind in between?

In my mind, it is practically a fact that a god does not exist. The more I think about it and the more I look at the world/universe, the less it makes sense.

3. Do you deny all concepts of god, or just the popular judeo-christian view of god?

all.

4. Why do all forms of matter have a certain state they want to be in? (Please don't say they 'just do')

I'm stupid so I don't know.

5. What are your moral values? What's the point of having moral values if there is no afterlife and nothing matters?

Why do you automatically presume that if there is no afterlife then that means nothing matters? I think plenty of things matter from the way you treat others, to your general outlook on the world. The point of morality in my opinion is to make the world a better place for us to live in. Most people want to be comfortable and happy, and decent morals are a way to achieve this. If you want to know what my basic moral values are, read the Buddhist precepts.

 

[VitalOne]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your answers, most of you answered well and completely, keep them coming. Remember I'm just curious, not really here to debate much.

New Question: Were you raised an atheist, or did you become one?

Extended Questions:

Also, about question #3, how is it possible to logically deny the concept of nature being god, the universe being god, or reality being god?

About question #5, What's the point of having moral values? There are no "afterlife" consequences for being a mean, cold-hearted, or unfair, so why not just do what you want to do?

 

[Raithere]

thus there is faith in modern scientists

The whole point of science is that faith is not requisite. In fact, faith is contrary to the scientific method which rigorously examines the veracity of any and all claims in order to identify assumptions and errors. The most wonderful thing about science is that its results are reproducible; if you don't believe a result is accurate you can duplicate the experiment for yourself.

~Raithere

 

[James R]

About question #5, What's the point of having moral values? There are no "afterlife" consequences for being a mean, cold-hearted, or unfair, so why not just do what you want to do?

Because acting that way will have adverse consequences for you. People won't like you, or treat you well. You may even end up in jail.

From a wider perspective, what would society be like if everybody followed that philosophy? It wouldn't work.

 

[Raithere]

The previous questions were well answered so I'll just go on to the new ones.

New Question: Were you raised an atheist, or did you become one?

I became one over years of studying theism and philosophy.

Also, about question #3, how is it possible to logically deny the concept of nature being god, the universe being god, or reality being god?

It begs the question. If god is merely nature, the universe, or reality why do we need the term god? Typically such pantheistic positions hide assumptions (typically mystical or supernatural) regarding god / nature.

About question #5, What's the point of having moral values? There are no "afterlife" consequences for being a mean, cold-hearted, or unfair, so why not just do what you want to do?

Morality, IMO, was derived from our evolution. Our 'basic' ethical values are those that assist the survival of the individual and reproduction. Our 'higher' ethical values assist the survival of tribes and species. Once we evolved into thinking creatures we were able to conceptualize even 'higher' ethical values such as those regarding other species and the ecology as a whole. In short, it's part of our biological makeup.

On a purely logical basis socially ethical behavior is the most advantageous for the individual. That is, in a scenario where everyone is out only to get what they can for themselves everyone looses. It is better for everyone involved if we form cooperative strategies.

On the other hand, ethics derived from authority and the fear of punishment are very weak arguments and reflect horribly upon mankind. Doing good things only because I fear the repercussions of doing bad things does not make me good.

~Raithere