Questions for Atheists (Refresher Thread)

[Ekimklaw]

This is a fresh new "Questions for Atheists" thread. Some are old, some are new, some are borrowed, some are blue (?).

Yeah... whatever... anyway...

Here are some probing questions. By the way, I am not pretending to post these as the final blow to atheism. I am not posting "trick questions". I am simply interested in your "take" (opinion) on these diverse subject matter.

One little teentsy tiny request? Please thoughtfully reply to each one (even if you've done it before elsewhere. Hey! today is a new day!). Some of them require *deep thought* (You know you love it) so please watch the knee-jerk answers.

So, put on your thinking caps, cuz here they are...

#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.

#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).

#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.

#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?

#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?

#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.

#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...

#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?

#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?

#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws would you implement to make a society orderly and civil.

Hope this is food for thought for you. I look forward to your responses. Enjoy!!!

-Mike

 

[Thor]

Right (cracks knuckles), here we go

1 - No, Big bang
2 - It was stored in a compressed form until it became unstable thus causing the big bang
3 - Prove I exsist
4 - None, they evolved in early forms of man
5 - I haven't got a feckin clue about what you said
6 - Read 5
7 - They did evolve. They evolve alot alot slower now as they are well adapted to the environment. Look at the colour changing moths in an earlier thread
8 - X and Y cells need ways to make new cells, as does man and woman
9 - None, evolved in earlier life forms including early man
10 - I'd abolish religion. Its the downfall of society as we know it.

Anymore

 

[Tiassa]

Mike ... Mike ... Mike .... Oh, Mike ....

Thank you for that, Ekimklaw.

You may not understand exactly how effective you've proven to be. I would say, though, that you're focusing just a hair too narrowly to achieve the result that it seems you're shooting after.

But it would seem that such a difficulty is hardly the most important difficulty here.

Seriously, man ... just laugh. It seems everybody's got religion, eh?

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[Tyler]

1) I don't know for sure but I believe the leading theory is the big bang.
2) What thor said.
3) He taught many other Greeks at the time who recorded their lessons from him. Plato, most notably. Also, he is mentioned in ancient Greek government books and his death record, I believe, was recorded.
4) No I cannot. I don't know enough about evolution to be sure, but I'm about 99% sure that they sure as hell didn't evolve in humans first.
5) Don't know
6) above.
7) What's to explain?
8) How? As in how does evolution work? Sorry bud, I'm not going into all that. If you want to know why - I'm guessing it's because larger species such as those that evolved were not capable of a-sexual reproduction. Anything multi-cellular like htat needed another way to reproduce.
9) No clue.
10) Hmmmmmm
- No murder despite what any of you believe
- No stealing
- No rape
- No kidnapping (which kinda falls under stealing I suppose)
- No bad art


Ekim you seem to have reached an interesting conclusion (or decision, I don't know which). You seem to think that mearly because atheists can't answer every question - God did it. It's an opinion that has been around about as long as human language has been. Fucking hell, what's that? It's the sun bob. Well how does it work? I dunno, god does it.

Because we don't know every answer only means one thing - we're human and we don't know every answer. Most atheists are fine with that idea. Every now and then you find a theist who says 'well, science can't answer everything yet - therefore there's a god.' Kind of disturbing.

 

[Ekimklaw]

Come now. Check your paranoia

I told you these are NOT trick questions. Some of you are reading between the lines and such. I just want to read atheist's opinions on these topics. That's all.

Don't be so defensive. Just do your best to answer the questions convincingly. Who knows... someone may read your post... lay down his or her scriptures forever, and embrace atheism.

-Mike

 

[Ekimklaw]

Re: Mike ... Mike ... Mike .... Oh, Mike ....

Originally posted by tiassa
Thank you for that, Ekimklaw.

You may not understand exactly how effective you've proven to be. I would say, though, that you're focusing just a hair too narrowly to achieve the result that it seems you're shooting after.

But it would seem that such a difficulty is hardly the most important difficulty here.

Seriously, man ... just laugh. It seems everybody's got religion, eh?

thanx,
Tiassa

Hmm... Tiassa...

Exactly what is "the result I'm shooting for"?


-Mike

 

[Ekimklaw]

==============================================
Thor wrote:
3 - Prove I exsist
==============================================


I can't. I have faith that you do though.



==============================================
Thor wrote:
5 - I haven't got a feckin clue about what you said
6 - Read 5
==============================================



Well, I've always heard that in the beginning there was a pool of some stuff called "primordial soup" or something. Anyway, at some point (since we are land dwellers) "it" went ashore. In other words "it" exited the water.

It follows that this was one of the "great leaps" of evolution we hear so much about. Now I'm guessing the "thing" (ooze, I've heard it called) must have gone ashore then went back into the water when it got too dry, then gone ashore, etc. back and forth until it preferred dry land. No word yet if it had eyeballs, or lips, or a sense of humor.

But there is something called "entropy". (I'm sure you know what that is). What it basically says is that something like this "spoodge" that came out of the water would tend to "break down" when exposed to an environment it wasn't used to. But evolutionists claim this "gunk" not only didn't "break down", but evolved upwards into a more complex lifeform. Of course we're told that it happened over "billions of years".

This theory is usually glossed over with a lot of fluff about time, and mutations. But I always wondered about entropy as it relates to this helpless little lifeform who started his evolutionary journey turning from a prehistoric wad of sludge into a creature able to write the works of Shakespeare, or orbit the moon.

Then there's the whole question of how the heck scientists know any of this happened to begin with. Maybe in addition to time, the evolutionist needs a heaping helping of faith too.

That's it. Feel free to expound, flame, and trash.

-Mike

 

[odin]

Ekimklaw

Are you saying that if we do not know the answers,we should all believe in BIG BROTHER!

 

[Ekimklaw]

==============================================
Tyler wrote:
Ekim you seem to have reached an interesting conclusion (or decision, I don't know which). You seem to think that mearly because atheists can't answer every question - God did it. It's an opinion that has been around about as long as human language has been. Fucking hell, what's that? It's the sun bob. Well how does it work? I dunno, god does it.
==============================================




I just wanted your opinions/views. No biggie.




==============================================
Tyler wrote:
Because we don't know every answer only means one thing - we're human and we don't know every answer. Most atheists are fine with that idea.
==============================================




I'm fine with that too. A simple "I don't know" works well.




==============================================
Tyler wrote:
Every now and then you find a theist who says 'well, science can't answer everything yet - therefore there's a god.' Kind of disturbing.
==============================================




What is more important... *why* a theist believes, or *what* he believes? I simply think science is bad at explaining "origins". Does pretty great with most other stuff. IMO.

-Mike

 

[Increan]

Originally posted by Ekimklaw
So, put on your thinking caps, cuz here they are...

#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.

Explain how you know it didn't. (The bible is not a credible reference.)

#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).

It's just always been here and if not who cares it's here now.

#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.

Were you on crack when you thought this one up?

#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?

Why do you care which one evolved first? They all work now, don't they? Does it really matter?

#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?

No minute form of matter exited the water, they formed into amphibian like creatures and were able to slowly get used to air. Remember a billion years is a long time.

#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.

I don't feel like going and looking up this shit. Prove Adam & Eve using empirical evidence only.

#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...

Probably, go ask someone who studies insects.

#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?

Life needs someway to keep going on, these things happen.

#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?

Why do you expect athiests to know all about evolution of a specific part of the human body. It all evolved together.

#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws would you implement to make a society orderly and civil.

Hmm...... If I was a God I would let people decide what they want to do for themselves, since I didn't make any of them and have no say in what they do. I'm just a person with an odd name that crazy and stupid people decided to worship.

I hope that clears somethings up for you.

 

[Tyler]

"What is more important... *why* a theist believes, or *what* he believes? I simply think science is bad at explaining "origins". Does pretty great with most other stuff. IMO."

Science is doing pretty decent at explaining origins in that it's now offering up logical and provable theories. Think of science 500 years ago. Think of a time when theories were, at best, shaky on how the solar system functioned. Now consider that maybe we're just in that stage (or just past it) for origins.

 

[Xev]

Mike:

Some of them require *deep thought*

With Jack Handy?

#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.

Good question. It all depends on the value of lambda..

It seems that our universe has not "always" existed. A multiverse or cosmos is another matter entirely.

#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).

Matter was created in the first few minutes of the big bang, as far as present cosmology knows.

#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.

Plato's description of his trial, which matches the description another Greek, Xenophon gave of the same trial. Socrates is also mentioned (slightingly) in the comedies of Aristophanes.

There is no "prove" of the existance of another human - yet.

#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?

Evidence suggests that they evolved as a whole.

#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?

It is thought that plants colonized the land first....I'm not sure of the question though.

#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.

Sure. Fossilized plants occur on strata that seems to be land before any other organisms do.

#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...

I do not know, I'm not a biologist, just an enthusiast.

This site answers the question:
http://www.biology-online.org/9/3b_insecta.htm

#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?

Again, not a biologist, just an enthusiast:
http://dorakmt.tripod.com/evolution/sreprod.html
http://biomed.brown.edu/Courses/BIO48/19.Evol.of.Sex.HTML

#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?

It is doubtful that any part evolved first. As I recall my reading of Dawkins, the eye likely evolved from a light-sensitive spot.

Organisms are not like clocks. You don't have to have each part evolving seperatly and then being put together - rather, species evolve as a whole.

#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws would you implement to make a society orderly and civil.

I'm an antichrist, does that help?

"Do nothing that will harm another human in a real* way without their consent.

I'd probably throw some "be nice to non-human animals and don't hurt the little critters unless necessary" stuff in there too.

That's all the moral law I'd institute. People would make their own way, hindered only in that they couldn't harm other people without the other person's consent.

*I.E no "hurt feelings" - physical and financial harm only.

 

[Cris]

Ekim,

But Ekim these are all trick questions and I am sure you know that, despite your assertions to the contrary. I think you just like watching people jump through hoops.

#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.

Your question is very vague. Define universe?

Taking the first definition in Webster we have: 1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated.

In which case the universe must have always existed. Something infinite must exist otherwise nothing could have begun. This must be true since if there was a point when nothing existed then the universe could not have begun.

#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).

Why assume it did not exist at some point in time? There is no evidence to support that assumption. Otherwise see the answer to (1).

#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.

Why?

#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?

The question is a non sequitur for the stated condition. Why assume that organs evolved in a sequence rather than at the same time? If they are interdependent then that implies the opposite of the trick question.

#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?

Again the question is a non sequitur for the condition. The question seems to be ignorant of some basic science principles. This link should help explain why the question makes no sense.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/entropy.html

#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.

Follow the above link.

#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...

Why ask? Why wouldn’t they?

#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?

That is currently being researched.

#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?

This is the same trick question as #4.

#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws would you implement to make a society orderly and civil.

Define what you mean by “God”. The question makes no sense otherwise. Current society is already overwhelmingly ordered and civil with a few exceptions. There appears no need of gods.

Cris

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Ekimklaw

1. If by Universe you mean the space-time continuum in which we exist. No. The variants of the "Big-Bang" theory are the best explanations we have so far as to how it began. Personally, I enjoy Hawking: http://www.dcd.net/NBP/hawking_origins.html You'll probably enjoy it as well, he discusses God in the last paragraph. Also, here is some information specifically regarding the "Big-Bang" theory. http://www.sprl.umich.edu/GCL/paper_to_html/universe.html

2. There is no such thing as "matter" as most people understand it. The Universe is not atomic; what we observe as matter is actually the intersection and interaction of various forces. See: http://www.friesian.com/particle.htm in particular the paragraph regarding wave/particle duality. And a more basic reference here: http://www.herts.ac.uk/astro_ub/a08_ub.html

3. I cannot.

4. No organ developed "first". Organs developed in conjunction with each other from tissues, which developed from specialized cells. Here's an article about the development of the eye: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/vision.html

5. Entropy only applies to a closed system; the Earth is not a closed system. See http://electron4.phys.utk.edu/141/nov19/November 19.html But this is irrelevant to your question, which is unclear. It sounds as if you are questioning the transition of life from sea to land but life was well developed before this transition occurred. Please clarify your question.

6. No scientific theory is ever absolute. I'll also need a clarification of 5 before I can provide more detail.

(7,8,9 Commentary) I must say that these questions seem to arise from sheer lassitude. The answers to these questions can easily be found online. You might wish to take a look at this site, which answers many of the questions you seem to be getting at: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html

7. Explain what? The evolution of insects is a rather large field. Which insect in particular are you interested in? Try looking here: http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Evolution/evolution segues/insect_evolution.htm

8. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/sex/advantage/ and
http://www.utm.edu/~rirwin/391SexEvol.htm

9. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

10. I'll take some time and think about this one further but first off I will state that any moral absolute, particularly one founded in authority rather than reason, is doomed to failure. I would, rather, suggest a relative system based upon logically reasoned ethical principles.


Now that I've gathered your sources for you perhaps you should spend some time reading.

~Raithere

 

[Joeman]

Hey it's my turn now. I will give it a go

Originally posted by Ekimklaw
#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.

It began with "bang!!!!" I know this because it is in the back of the book.

#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).

it comes from the first big bang I suppose

#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.

Some books say he exists so he must exist.

#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?

Probably skin.

#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?

Hmmm.....I am gonna give a rough estimate....I would say 150,000 years give or take a billion years.

#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.

There are fossils I suppose.

#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...

Yeah, they develop tolerance for insecticide.

#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?

hmmm.....no idea.

#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?

The eye lashes probably

#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws world you implement to make a society orderly and civil.

Well, when I zone residential, industrial, and commerial areas with road adjacent to them, they must move in. They have to use the roads. If there is too much crime I build police stations. I eventually build schools, stadiums, super highways. I always have to remember to build "connections" between neighboring universes. I always have to remember to save games regularly in case the aliens attack or nuclear melt down . hahahahahahahah. too much sim city. This is why god doesn't exist.

Hope this is food for thought for you. I look forward to your responses. Enjoy!!!

How many points do I get? Did I win?

 

[Xev]

Joeman:

hmmm.....no idea.

Let me show you?

 

[Joeman]

Re: Joeman:

Originally posted by Xev

Let me show you?

Sure. A practical demostration would be helpful.

Actually I just wasn't clever enough to think of anything stupid to say.

 

[Xev]

Speaking of this:

Re: Mike ... Mike ... Mike .... Oh, Mike ....

Tiassa, Elkimlaw, CUT THAT OUT! The neighbors are complaining.

*Hits ceiling with broom*

Joeman:

Sure. A practical demostration would be helpful.

Pay close attention and I'll give you high grades on your orals.

 

[Increan]

Re: Re: Joeman:

Originally posted by Joeman
Actually I just wasn't clever enough to think of anything stupid to say.

Yeah, isn't that strange when you are to intelligent to think of stupid things?

 

[James R]

I'm not claiming to be an atheist, but I'll have a crack at this before I read the other responses.

<i>#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.</i>

I don't know whether the universe has always existed or not. Nor does anybody else. It seems, however, that our observable universe began with a big bang. Whether that was a once-off occurence or part of a series is debatable.

How can we know about the big bang? Through astronomical observations.

<i>#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).</i>

Probably from a quantum vacuum fluctuation, but that's not a settled question scientifically. Maybe God made it.

<i>#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.</i>

It can't be proved, but the evidence is in favour of it. For example, reliable sources including Plato attest to Socrates' existence.

<i>#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?</i>

They evolved together.

<i>#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?</i>

Life began evolving long before it left the water. The term "macro-evolution" is a Creationist term which is essentially meaningless. It is best to avoid it.

<i>#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.</i>

Empircal evidence: Life today exists both in the land and in the water. Cells are observed to require a liquid environment. It is fair to infer that the first cells did evolved in water. At some point they must have migrated to land, or else we wouldn't be here.

<i>#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...</i>

Yes. The explanation would be long. Where do you want me to start? How much do you know about evolution?

<i>#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?</i>

I don't have the required expertise to answer this.

<i>#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?</i>

Most probably the optic nerve. Of course, the different parts of the eye evolved together to a large extent. A lens isn't much use if you don't have a retina.

<i>#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws would you implement to make a society orderly and civil.</i>

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is probably not a bad start.