Questions For a Liberal From a conservative

D

David2

A Non-cristian Conservative
Registered Senior Member
I am new to this but i just have a couple of Questions for you:

1.If you all are so against people living on life support, alot of you say that if they are so damaged that they can die then just let them die, why is it that you all are so for the murderization of a living organism to cure someone with cancer. To go one step further lets get rid of all of the ambulences you know if their going to bleed to death before they get to the hospital lets just let them die.

2.If you all think that some one should be starved to death because their quality of life sucked kind of like Terri Schavo what whould you say if 3 years down the road i said hey well my granny she real old and she cant walk because she is missing a leg and she cant breath very well because has been smoking for the past 44 years. because she cant run around and have fun with her Great Grandkids let just lock her in a closet and cut off her food and water with out her consent.

i sed a couple so theres your couple.
 
I don't think liberals are against someone living on life support. It's just that with end-of-life issues, we think there are often difficult decisions to make, and sometimes letting a dying person die is the most humane choice. Above all, it's not the federal government's choice. It has usually been the conservative position to keep the government out of people's personal lives, and this is one of the most personal. In the Terry Schiavo case, it's not that we advocate the same position for everyone, the case was about a legal guardian's right to determine the patients true intentions.

why is it that you all are so for the murderization of a living organism to cure someone with cancer
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I have no idea what this means, please clarify.

An interesting point is that conservatives are the ones against universal health care. You don't want people to die, but are you willing to pay for life support for an indefinite time? No, you don't care, you would call it socialism. Conservatives are also against being able to sue doctors for malpractice, and as a matter of fact, that's where Schaivo's husband got the money to support her for so long.


As far as you're second question, no one is trying to kill people against their will. If grandma wants to die, I believe we should let her die, even help her die. If her quality of life is bad, I believe in helping her improve it. If she becomes brain-dead with no statement of her intentions, I would ask her husband first or next of kin second what she would have wanted.
 
TO Spidergoat to tell you the the truth the problem with medicare is that it is simply improbable if someone pays into social security 15 dollars a week but they expect to pull out 150 dollars a week i dont think that is going to even out very much.

second i do find it odd that michael got his money from male practise law suites because what really happened was up intill 1 year ago he was getting the money from his own pocket and he ran out then her family and a bunch of other people set up a 1.5 million dollar trust fund. suddenly out of nowhere Quote "i thinks that she might have said that if i am on life support i want you to pull the plug" now if you look it sais that she might have said that. and i wonder gets that money. and about that Quote you should know about stem cell research.however i do thank you for stating your opinion
 
We pay greater costs for emergency room care than if we paid for continuing health care costs, so it would be cheaper to have universal health care coverage, or at least some help with health insurance. Isn't that a culture of life issue?

Why are most conservatives for the murderization of turkeys on thanksgiving? They have many more times the number of cells than an embryo. A human embryo at that stage is almost identical to any other animal. You see, it's about the Christian concept of the soul, they think humans get one as soon as an egg is fertilized, when actually, our conciousness grows gradually with the complexity of our brain structure.
 
honostly it isn't like were are going around saying hey kill all turkeys or anything like that and i find it odd you are acting as if you care more about animals than you do about the human race. honostly healthcare is not going help how much we spend on emergency rooms i honostly dont agree with paying for either of them.
 
you know something else i find odd is that you liberals are all about spending money it is almost like a comunists way of thinking you say hey work and we will take care of you sit at home be lazy we will buy your food, medicine, and pay your bills. but we get blamed for why the social security is dieng and why the defacit is so out of whack i will admit this has cost alot of money but nothing compares to the out of control spending on paying someone to sit at home
 
David, a liberal never spends his OWN money, for god's sake ....he spends YOURS and MINE!! That's why it's so easy for them to spend money!! ...LOL!

Baron Max
 
Wow, this is some old school rhetoric you've got going on here! haha. Your political paradigm is almost at a poll shift. Time to get out of 1985 and take a look at the actual political climate of the nation today.

Also, David, a question for you: Are you barely literate because you're ill informed, or are you ill informed because you're barely literate? You can't even seem to keep your issues straight. No one has been talking about Medicare, republicans are being blamed for trying to destroy social security because that's exactly what Bush's "reform" plan calls for, and stem cell research isn't going to cure cancer, nor does it kill anything more than a few cells in a petri dish.

Oh, also, Republicans are being blamed for the deficit because Clinton was running an enormous surplus, and now, with Bush's spending policies, we're running the largest deficit in the history of civilization. Who likes to spend whose money again?

As for the Terry Shaivo case which was clearly the intended topic of this post, most Democrats, and a considerable number of Republicans as well are mostly upset that the current administration would take such a totalitarian stance on the issue as to pass specific legislation for one person in order to circumvent court orders and remove power from Shaivo’s legal guardian and husband. A lot of people also don’t particularly mind the fact that she died, as she was essentially dead already, But many who would prefer that she live (such as myself) at least have the decency to admit that that choice is not in our hands, and should not be in the hands of the Congress or the President.
 
I do apologise mystech i did use the wrong word i did mean to talk about the national health care. please forgive me i was typping to much and not double checking my self.
now just because clinton had a "large surplus" does not mean that it was his money as bush came in to office it became his responsability. also if you also look at clintons record it did have a verybig decline in the last 8 or 9 months of his run some reason or a nother the news did not show this maybe because they choose sides. so in sense clinton is partially to blame for this deficit. now also it was intirely all clintons responsability for how good it was when clinton was in office either, if you dont remember Ronald Ragon who fixed the economy back in 1983 the year you were born so here comes ford and bush senior who just let it ride up hill well then for some reason clinton came and fucked it all up 9 months before he left office
 
And buy the way i do concider a few cells in a pietrie dish a living organism of the human race ever.
 
To David,

We just don't really give a rat's ass because we realize that this whole life support thing is just a distraction from what's really going on in the conservative movement.

People die all the time on life support, but it ain't every day that people die needlessly in a war based on greed.
 
David:

1.If you all are so against people living on life support, alot of you say that if they are so damaged that they can die then just let them die, why is it that you all are so for the murderization of a living organism to cure someone with cancer. To go one step further lets get rid of all of the ambulences you know if their going to bleed to death before they get to the hospital lets just let them die.
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Firstly, that's not what all liberals believe, and please stop acting as though being liberal and being conservative are the only two political worldviews to adopt.

I personally feel that it is not my right, or your right, or the Government's right, to decide whether some must continue living in a painful state. It should be up to the individual who is suffering to decide whether they want to end their life.

If they don't want to remain on life support (either expressed in a living will, or to a next of kin, such as in the Schiavo case), then so be it, who are we to keep them hooked up to a machine if they find it abominable???

Pro-lifer's are not pro life. Pro-choicers are pro life, as living is your right, hence the logical conclusion is that it is your choice to decide how to terminate your life.

2.If you all think that some one should be starved to death
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*nitpick* Dehydrated to death.

because their quality of life sucked kind of like Terri Schavo
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Terri's life didn't just suck, she didn't really have one. She was a just a hunk of living meat, with the rational faculty of a plant. Just like a plant, she could respond to stimuli (though just barely), yet had no sense of self-awareness. Her higher self was dead.

what whould you say if 3 years down the road i said hey well my granny she real old and she cant walk because she is missing a leg and she cant breath very well because has been smoking for the past 44 years. because she cant run around and have fun with her Great Grandkids let just lock her in a closet and cut off her food and water with out her consent.
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This is a strawman, and you should be ashamed that you equate liberal beliefs with the attitude above. Terri expressed told her next of kin that she wanted to die if in such a state. This was determined in court, NUMEROUS times, by NUMEROUS judges.
 
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Was Mrs Schiavo still alive, or was there a collection of body organs which had ceased to be an individual human being? Was she aware that she was there at all, that she was Mrs Schiavo? If she was, she had already said that she did not want to live under those conditions.
Which living organism do we siupport "murderizing" to cure someone with cancer?
The only way you can tell if someone will bleed to death before they get to hospital is to take them to the hospital and see. If it happens regularly, there are many solutions: equip ambulances more effectively; give ambulances more priority, have more and smaller hospitals...
Your granny has the right to decide for herself. If she finds her life unsatisfactory, she should have the right to end it. If she is wise she will say that there is a stage when she did not want to live any longer and she would not wish to receve treatment if it left her alive in such a condition.
 
David2 said:
honostly it isn't like were are going around saying hey kill all turkeys or anything like that and i find it odd you are acting as if you care more about animals than you do about the human race. honostly healthcare is not going help how much we spend on emergency rooms i honostly dont agree with paying for either of them.
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At the level of an embryo, turkeys and humans are practically identical, except for some DNA coding that will eventially turn it into one or the other. So, I suppose a sperm cell is also sacred to you? What about an egg? You must also be against masturbation, then. Stem cells are the biggest breakthrough in medicine-perhaps of all time. This research may save lives, regrow organs and tissues, and we may not have to use embryos at all. I think that's money well spent, and it's pro-life.

Health care certainly effects emergency rooms, because without health care, people wait until their medical condition becomes an emergency, so they can get treated for free at an emergency room, where they are obligated to save lives, and then it costs far greater, because the condition is all that more serious! Isn't saving lives what you are all about????? But you don't want to pay for either of them???? Can't you see how hypocritical that is?

you know something else i find odd is that you liberals are all about spending money it is almost like a comunists way of thinking you say hey work and we will take care of you sit at home be lazy we will buy your food, medicine, and pay your bills. but we get blamed for why the social security is dieng and why the defacit is so out of whack i will admit this has cost alot of money but nothing compares to the out of control spending on paying someone to sit at home
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You use the epithet of "communism" to insult the concept of social spending? Is gratuitous suffering a part of your political philosophy? Who was going to pay to for Terry Shaivo's hospital care before this became a political tool for the Republicans? Obviously, Terry was just too lazy to work, so why pay for anything? Let her die for lack of social spending, oh no, wait, death is bad, right? Yeah, get back to me when you figure it out.

It's funny that Republicans are willing to give tax breaks to the rich, no-bid contracts for the rebuilding of Iraq, limit the responsibility of drug companies for the safety of their products, yet people are left to themselves to figure out how to avoid death due to an inability to pay for medical treatment.

Social security is not dying, that's a fake scare designed to increase support for Bush's plan to destroy it.

Why do you think Bush isn't a big spender? He is spending unfathomable amounts of your money and mine in Iraq, most of which is going to the big oil companies, and who knows where else, several million were just lost, I hear. So, why is this better than social spending here at home to improve our quality of life? NO ONE IS SUGGESTING PAYING PEOPLE TO SIT HOME! If your job doesn't provide medical insurance, then if you are injured, or worse- suffer some severe illness, and you can't work, that's bad for the economy, bad for everyone. I suggest subsidizing these things, I mean we subsidize farmers, right?
 
Baron Max said:
David, a liberal never spends his OWN money, for god's sake ....he spends YOURS and MINE!! That's why it's so easy for them to spend money!! ...LOL!

Baron Max
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Red states take in more federal money than they pay out in taxes, which means blue states are subsidizing your cowboy fantasies. You are being a rugged individualist on some liberal douche's dime.
 
ok to spidergoat just because i say that i dont want some one to die by dehidration does not mean that i want to pay the bills and honostly there was no money that she needed because she had a 1.5 million dollar trust fund set up to pay for her med. charges.

as far as the war goes i do agree with it and i trust bush to do the right thing with the money that he is spending also i dont see how welfare is making this a better nation however i do agree with disabillity because they honostly cant work. i guess my problem with welfare is the fact that 75% of all drug users are middle aged woman on wellfare. now i would rather give money to oil instead of someones drug dependancy.

now to top mosker if you dont give a rats ass then go the fuck away. atleast these other guys have the decincy to give there opinion. weather they agree or not i would rather here someone slaying my thread instead of hearing i dont care.

to thersites weather or not she was just a sack of bones and organs is your opinion and do believe that there was more than just that. there to have been because she was able to recognise the other people in the room. also there was times that she would slightly comunicate with people.

to mountainhare i am sorry for not aknowledging other forms of governments but i honostly dont know of any others if you could please and i am asking nicely could you inform me of the others.
 
ok to spidergoat just because i say that i dont want some one to die by dehidration does not mean that i want to pay the bills and honostly there was no money that she needed because she had a 1.5 million dollar trust fund set up to pay for her med. charges.
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YOU don't want someone dying? What about what THEY want? And where did that 1.5 million come from? It came from a medical malpractice lawsuit, something Bush wants to do away with, or at least put a cap on.

But, if you want to demand that someone live, are you also going to demand that the relatives pay for life support indefinitely, even when there is little or no hope for recovery?

What if, as is often the case, the medical bills send you into bankruptcy? You know Bush wants to get rid of that law, too, so people will still be required to pay their creditors.

she was able to recognise the other people in the room. also there was times that she would slightly comunicate with people.
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That's a lie. There were 6 HOURS of video footage with the doctors and her parents testing Terry for awareness. The 6 SECONDS of seeming reaction you saw were not reproducable.

also i dont see how welfare is making this a better nation
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It is keeping poor people and the children of poor people alive, I don't know, that seems like a good idea to me.

i guess my problem with welfare is the fact that 75% of all drug users are middle aged woman on wellfare.
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That's total bull, prove it.

you know something else i find odd is that you liberals are all about spending money it is almost like a comunists way of thinking
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I'd like to talk about something else, who is buying the huge debt that Bush is incurring? Who do we borrow from? I bet you didn't know, but it's the Chinese- and they are communists, last I heard.
 
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