Questions about evolution (and such)

[YoYoPapaya]

1. Is a highly intelligent species (arrogantly) like ourselves an unavoidable consequence of evolution of life on an earthlike planet? (By highly intelligent i mean capable of creating technology).

2. Not really about evolution, but somewhat related: "Has anyone got any idea what it takes to make life and what the odds are for this to happen on an earthlike planet"? I believe that it is consensus that it requires self replication on a molecular level.

I'll leave it at that for now

 

[KilljoyKlown]

1. Is a highly intelligent species (arrogantly) like ourselves an unavoidable consequence of evolution of life on an earthlike planet? (By highly intelligent i mean capable of creating technology).

In order for an intelligent species to be capable of creating technology it must be able to use tools and be social. The porpoise is intelligent and social but without arms and hands it can't make tools and use them. They could be 10 times more intelligent than humans, but so what. Also being aquatic would be a problem. Kind of tough if you can't use fire.

Next the world you are living on must have the right climate and resources or no amount of intelligence will get you past the daily goal of staying alive as your main area of interest.

 

[YoYoPapaya]

So you're saying it's a rather uncommon event?

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

We can speculate that it’s uncommon. We cannot state that it is uncommon as we only have n=1 for planets with life so far.

 

[YoYoPapaya]

There is qualified speculation and then there is my complete ignorance.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

So you're saying it's a rather uncommon event?

I would speculate that if we can't populate more than just this one planet, we won't even survive as long as the dinosaurs did, and the way we are using up resources if we need to start again for whatever reason, it will be a lot tougher second go around. But maybe that's what will take for evolution to make us even more intelligent. Just speculating.

 

[YoYoPapaya]

Interesting thought

 

[Rav]

Next the world you are living on must have the right climate and resources or no amount of intelligence will get you past the daily goal of staying alive as your main area of interest.

Indeed. It's not so much about intelligence as it is about the abundance and accessibility of natural resources. Put a bunch of really smart apes in a situation where resources are scarce and not easily accessible and they have to spend all their time hunting and gathering. Put the same bunch of really smart apes in a situation where there is an over-abundance of readily accessible resources and they can spend more time doing some sort of primitive (at first) R&D.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Indeed. It's not so much about intelligence as it is about the abundance and accessibility of natural resources. Put a bunch of really smart apes in a situation where resources are scarce and not easily accessible and they have to spend all their time hunting and gathering. Put the same bunch of really smart apes in a situation where there is an over-abundance of readily accessible resources and they can spend more time doing some sort of primitive (at first) R&D.

Yes that's the idea I was trying get across. Intelligence is just part of the equation that leads to a technological society. There might be a lot of intelligent but none technological life out in the universe.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Humans are here by luck. we evolved at the "right time" in earths history. If we were around when the dinosaurs were here I really don't think we would be here today because they went extinct as we all know. Many things have become extinct over the millennium and there's nothing much we can do to prevent that from happening to the human race. We are here now but in a few thousand years perhaps another asteroid will hit and once again change the face of the earth and a new species will develop that may or may not be like us.

So count your lucky stars that you are here today to see what the universe is about and to also see the human race destroy itself from its own pollution, war, greed and hate. Don't blame invisible supernatural entities for humanity because they do not exist to cast the blame onto but instead look at yourself and see who the real problem is.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Indeed. It's not so much about intelligence as it is about the abundance and accessibility of natural resources. Put a bunch of really smart apes in a situation where resources are scarce and not easily accessible and they have to spend all their time hunting and gathering.

Been there done that. Our ancestral species had to spend all of their time gathering and scavenging food. One of the ways they got protein was to scavenge the bones left by predators and scrape the leftover meat off with their teeth--a herbivore's teeth can get at some of the meat that a predator's teeth must leave behind.

But then they began using rocks as tools, and eventually discovered that flint stones could be carefully broken apart to yield sharp blades. These flint blades made them much more efficient at scavenging meat from discarded bones than they could be by just using their teeth. This created an immense increase in the protein content of their diet. Since the maintenance of brain tissue requires a lot of protein, they were able to evolve larger brains.

With the greater intelligence they were able to invent knives, spears, slings and other advanced weapons, which, combined with better organizational skill, allowed them to become hunters rather than merely scavengers. As their underutilized intestines shrank, they lost the ability to survive on a vegetarian diet like the other apes. Soon they became the planet's apex predator, dining on the meat of bears and sharks.

But they were still at the mercy of nature, tied to the feast-famine cycle of the weather and the vagaries of animal migrations. So about 12,000 years ago they used those massive brains to invent agriculture, the twin technologies of farming and animal husbandry. For the first time there was a significant food surplus, which could be stored and eaten next year if there was a drought.

So here we have an example of "a bunch of really smart apes in a situation where resources are scarce and not easily accessible" evolving the anatomical change (a uniquely massive forebrain) that allowed them to transcend nature and grow their own food.

Don't be so quick to fall back on the old homily, "Nature always bats last." After all, evolution is part of nature.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Been there done that. Our ancestral species had to spend all of their time gathering and scavenging food. One of the ways they got protein was to scavenge the bones left by predators and scrape the leftover meat off with their teeth--a herbivore's teeth can get at some of the meat that a predator's teeth must leave behind.

That's may be, but I'd rather die first than live like that again.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

That's may be, but I'd rather die first than live like that again.

My point is that this is what we do. When nature gets in our way, we change it. Both external nature and our own internal nature. We used to be pack-social, living in small extended-family units that regarded other clans as hated competitors for scarce resources. Now we are well on our way to being herd-social, tolerating the company of anonymous strangers and working toward a common goal.

 

[Diode-Man]

1. Is a highly intelligent species (arrogantly) like ourselves an unavoidable consequence of evolution of life on an earthlike planet? (By highly intelligent i mean capable of creating technology).

2. Not really about evolution, but somewhat related: "Has anyone got any idea what it takes to make life and what the odds are for this to happen on an earthlike planet"? I believe that it is consensus that it requires self replication on a molecular level.

I'll leave it at that for now

I think life is a condition of atomic matter that can only happen on an Earth-like planet! So what I ask myself now is, what were the chances that the atomic matter that makes up my body just happen to be on Earth?

We have many planets in our solar system, many that have miles and miles of dead matter... I just happen to be in the right place at the right time to be alive!

I think humans evolved from ape-like creatures, but when they ate psychedelic plants it evolved their minds to see something completely new, they saw "God."

 

[KilljoyKlown]

My point is that this is what we do. When nature gets in our way, we change it. Both external nature and our own internal nature. We used to be pack-social, living in small extended-family units that regarded other clans as hated competitors for scarce resources. Now we are well on our way to being herd-social, tolerating the company of anonymous strangers and working toward a common goal.

Not without a real struggle. Until this world has a single world government I won't feel very secure about the future of the human species. Also I do believe we are on a time clock. So whatever that common goal you are talking about is, you can bet there will be some mighty big distractions in the way.

At this moment I think we humans are losing that race to put our eggs in some other baskets before it's to late.

 

[Dinosaur]

The issue of the prevalence of life in the universe & the prevalence of intelligent life has been the subject of many threads.

There seems to be no reason to suppose that evolution inevitably leads to a technological culture. The dinosaurs were an evolutionary success for almost 200 million years & never developed in the direction of a technological culture.

Try searching for some pertinent threads. It does not seem worthwhile to rehash those other threads. I think that most (if not all) pertinent theads mention the "Drake Equation" (try it as a search key).

BTW: Very few of the posters to those threads provided more than opinions. Comments like the following are no more than unsupported opinions.

There is some huge number of stars, therefore the universe is teeming with technological cultures.

Put this set of guesses intio the Drake equation & the result is some number of technological cultures.​

 

[cosmictraveler]

The Drake equation states that:

N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
and

R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

 

[drumbeat]

I believe its possible that most planets that evolve life never get further than the very basic forms of life. There are many 'walls' that once broken are followed by a surge of evolution.
For example; making the move from liquid to land. Some planets won't have any land at all.

 

[Walter L. Wagner]

If we were around when the dinosaurs were here I really don't think we would be here today because they went extinct as we all know.

This is a common fallacy. 'We' were around when the dinosaurs were here. That is our ancestors were around and lived alongside the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs died out, our ancestors did not, and continued to evolve over time into primates, pre-humans, and then humans.

If we could survive back then, now that we are human we should be easily able to survive calamities that took out the dinosaurs but not our ancestors.

 

[cosmictraveler]

This is a common fallacy. 'We' were around when the dinosaurs were here. That is our ancestors were around and lived alongside the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs died out, our ancestors did not, and continued to evolve over time into primates, pre-humans, and then humans.

If we could survive back then, now that we are human we should be easily able to survive calamities that took out the dinosaurs but not our ancestors.

Can you provide a link that shows scientifically that we humans were there as some kind of human form? Or are you saying that the animals that we evolved from were the ones that eventually bacame humans? I'm a little confused as to what you mean. Thanks