I have been a believer in God for most of my life, but lately I've been questioning the existence of an all powerful, all loving creator. I mean really...what pleasure would an all loving god get in damning the people that don't believe he exists to hell? And why does he let people go out and kill people in His name. I'm just a bit confused about this whole thing. This makes me think I've been played for a fool...I really hope I haven't, because if there really isn't a god then what's the point of living? All I know is if I were God I don't think I would force my own creations to believe in me...really I mean YOUR GOD!!!! How much flattery do you need? Also I wouldn't present my self so selfishly the way he does...well anyway, I would like someone to tell me why and don't use circular logic on me (i.e. god is god because he says he's god so he is).
Questioning My Faith
- Thread starter Nymph
- Start date
Hello, as an atheist what I can offer is this: Believe in what works for you. So what if the notion of a trigger happy god exists? Does it outweigh the benefits of faith, such as love, understanding, humility, etc? Also, if it has worked for you in the past it might be a tad unwise to throw off something that has served you well. I'm only atheist because the philosophy works for me.
If it continues to bother you, I suggest that you focus on the positive parts and the spirit, rather than the letter of the religion.
I lack the theology to refute that the notion of a gunhappy god makes him not merciful, so I won't try.
Theists, anything to offer?
__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?
-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos
If it continues to bother you, I suggest that you focus on the positive parts and the spirit, rather than the letter of the religion.
I lack the theology to refute that the notion of a gunhappy god makes him not merciful, so I won't try.
Theists, anything to offer?
__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?
-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos
Life is the point of living. I believe the Divine manifests itself in all things, and this is its way of experiencing Life, the Universe, and everything
- through everyone and everything in it.Here are the words of Jesus when the Jews wanted to stone him for saying he was the Son of God:
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Does this help?
"All I know is if I were God I don't think I would force my own creations to believe in me...really I mean YOUR GOD!!!! How much flattery do you need? Also I wouldn't present my self so selfishly the way he does...well anyway, I would like someone to tell me why and don't use circular logic on me (i.e. god is god because he says he's god so he is)."
God seems rather human, eh? Amazing that no matter what animal head we put on it or what powers we give, god always seems incredibly human.
God seems rather human, eh? Amazing that no matter what animal head we put on it or what powers we give, god always seems incredibly human.
No God does not mean there is no meaning to life... Just that you must give meaning yourself. What is important to you? Define your own moral code, not according to a God, but according to yourself, and stick true to that moral code as you would a bible. Start looking at life in the 1st person... It's very exciting... Once you stop focusing on what you'd be leaving behind by rejecting the idea of a God, you'll realize all you've gained... With no afterlife you can REALLY learn to appreciate life. Live it every day to the fullest. Create your heaven on earth. In time you will probably become alot stronger and independant cause you will now be forced to deal with your mistakes, and realize you will not always be forgiven. You will take responsibility for your life, and it will pay off. I was religious once. And I wasn't one of the "I hate God, so I'll be athiest" which is totally illogical. I just realized it didn't make sense one day... And I started looking at life as my own, and it was up to me what I made of it, not an all-powerful director... A very limited me... But I've suprised myself already with what I've accomplished. So best of luck on however you decided to go from this point...
And welcome to sciforums!
And welcome to sciforums!
"I mean really...what pleasure would an all loving god get in damning the people that don't believe he exists to hell?"
Hell is eternal seperation from God, we choose it ourselves by choosing to reamin seperate from him even after we learn about him. Everyday you choose whether you are going to face God and live with HIm or if you are going to turn your back, if you continually turn your back then God says 'ok, thats what you chose, so thats what you get for all of eternity'
"And why does he let people go out and kill people in His name."
I'm just gonna assume you mean people like Hitler.............God doesnt want people to kill in His name, in fact He specifically says not too, however He gave us free will so in order to allow us to have our free will he must let us go out and kill in His name because to stop us from doing it he would be forcing himself upon the person, which He will never do
"This makes me think I've been played for a fool...I really hope I haven't, because if there really isn't a god then what's the point of living?"
It has been my experience that there is none. If there isn't a god then what is the point of 80 years on earth? there is absolutly none so it stands to reason that there is some point to all this and God and the afterlife seem to be a pretty good point to it all logically!
"All I know is if I were God I don't think I would force my own creations to believe in me"
As I previously stated, God does not force anyone to believe in HIm
"...really I mean YOUR GOD!!!! How much flattery do you need? "
I dont worship God because he's a childish, arrogant being and demands it, I worship Him because I see what an awsome and amazingly beautiful God he is and I just have to worship that which is so far above me!
"Also I wouldn't present my self so selfishly the way he does"
I've struggled with this thought that God seems kindof selfish sometimes since becoming a christian, but then as with the worship I find that I would do it even if God didnt say to do it.
Also in making this statment you are showing that you still do believe that the bible is God inspired, maybe you should return to the bible as figure out why you believe that!
good luck with this!
Hell is eternal seperation from God, we choose it ourselves by choosing to reamin seperate from him even after we learn about him. Everyday you choose whether you are going to face God and live with HIm or if you are going to turn your back, if you continually turn your back then God says 'ok, thats what you chose, so thats what you get for all of eternity'
"And why does he let people go out and kill people in His name."
I'm just gonna assume you mean people like Hitler.............God doesnt want people to kill in His name, in fact He specifically says not too, however He gave us free will so in order to allow us to have our free will he must let us go out and kill in His name because to stop us from doing it he would be forcing himself upon the person, which He will never do
"This makes me think I've been played for a fool...I really hope I haven't, because if there really isn't a god then what's the point of living?"
It has been my experience that there is none. If there isn't a god then what is the point of 80 years on earth? there is absolutly none so it stands to reason that there is some point to all this and God and the afterlife seem to be a pretty good point to it all logically!
"All I know is if I were God I don't think I would force my own creations to believe in me"
As I previously stated, God does not force anyone to believe in HIm
"...really I mean YOUR GOD!!!! How much flattery do you need? "
I dont worship God because he's a childish, arrogant being and demands it, I worship Him because I see what an awsome and amazingly beautiful God he is and I just have to worship that which is so far above me!
"Also I wouldn't present my self so selfishly the way he does"
I've struggled with this thought that God seems kindof selfish sometimes since becoming a christian, but then as with the worship I find that I would do it even if God didnt say to do it.
Also in making this statment you are showing that you still do believe that the bible is God inspired, maybe you should return to the bible as figure out why you believe that!
good luck with this!
First off, you haven't been played for a fool. The question is a difficult one and most people take it seriously and are earnest in their convictions... relatively few people, I believe, are simply out to con others. Now as to whether those convictions are correct...
Secondly, if God does not exist then your life is your own. It is up to you then to determine its meaning and its value. Keep in mind though that when you are gone the only continuing meaning for your life will exist in the minds of others and in the impact your life has had upon the world. Every word and every action is important because that is all you have. No absolution can be given by an omnipotent third party. The only absolution you will get is that which you are able to forge with those who you have wounded or that which they give freely. Religion allows for you to commit murder and win absolution through repentance and subservience to God. Atheism insists that there is no absolution for murder... the offended party is dead.
~Raithere
P.S. Sorry, notme. I just read your post after leaving mine and I almost exactly repeated what you already said. Cool.
(edited for P.S.)
there is a reason you are feeling this crisis of faith. your faith has been based in teachings that don't feel right to you. that doesn't mean that there is no god. that just means that you haven't connected with or recognized your higher self yet - the window in you that god speaks through. i could try to answer all of your questions, as some others have done, but my answers would not be as convincing to you coming from me as they would coming from inside yourself.
it is important to understand that religion and god are not the same thing. i would suggest that you throw out the parts of the religious teachings that you know don't feel right to you. then i would suggest that you sit in a quiet place with a notebook, relax your mind, and ask your questions. write down all the answers that come to you. don't "think," just open your mind and let the answers float to the surface. this is one way to tap into what some may consider a "collective unconscious," or others label as the wisdom of god.
see what kind of answers you come up with and then we'll take it from there.... we'll all be awaiting your discoveries, if you feel like sharing them.
and please know that the search for understanding and connecting with god is, in itself, a reason to live.
it is important to understand that religion and god are not the same thing. i would suggest that you throw out the parts of the religious teachings that you know don't feel right to you. then i would suggest that you sit in a quiet place with a notebook, relax your mind, and ask your questions. write down all the answers that come to you. don't "think," just open your mind and let the answers float to the surface. this is one way to tap into what some may consider a "collective unconscious," or others label as the wisdom of god.
see what kind of answers you come up with and then we'll take it from there.... we'll all be awaiting your discoveries, if you feel like sharing them.
and please know that the search for understanding and connecting with god is, in itself, a reason to live.
Theology != Hedonism
Divorce theology from the pursuit of happiness.
Whether or not there is a god is a question of truth, not of what your emotions need. You can be an unhappy theist just as easily as an unhappy atheist, but neither of those is desirable, obviously. First figure out what it takes for you to be happy, and pursue it. Then, independently of your emotions, determine whether you think there is a god.
Divorce theology from the pursuit of happiness.
Whether or not there is a god is a question of truth, not of what your emotions need. You can be an unhappy theist just as easily as an unhappy atheist, but neither of those is desirable, obviously. First figure out what it takes for you to be happy, and pursue it. Then, independently of your emotions, determine whether you think there is a god.
I agree, half of what I write just comes on sudden inspiration as I type and let my mind go. I choose to label it as wisdom of God but not everyone does. Try praying (even if you dont think you believe) that God will give you some answers and see what happens cause the bible says 'if you seek with all your heart you shall find Him'. so good luck!
Voodoo Child
Registered Senior Member
The basic source of your existential angst is that you are assuming that there is a point to life. This is going to screw you because there really isn't. It is just a collection of stuff. By trying to extract meaning from this you inevitably bringing more and more absurdities and inconsistencies to your attention. There are various answers to your questions(certain theists are mindlessly reciting them in this very thread), however, the critical examination and curiousity that made you ask these questions will inevitably expose the explanations as incoherent and unconvincing. God is not an answer to the 'why?' questions, merely a way of stalling for time. The question you really should ask is: "Why 'why?'?"
I'm just curious as to why you would attribute this "sudden inspiration" to God and not to your own mind. I often do something very similar to this; it’s an idea generating practice that writers often use, known as stream of consciousness writing.
~Raithere
R
Redoubtable
Guest
Ah yes, and why in the seemingly endless cosmos would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity display any of the attributes of a normal human? Perhaps, humans devised him? Ah, that seems feasible to me.
Ah yes, and why in the seemingly endless cosmos would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity display any of the attributes of a normal human? Perhaps, humans devised him? Ah, that seems feasible to me.
At the sametime you could also say that maybe not God displays signs of humanity but maybe we display charistics of God
Genisis 1:27 and he created man in his own image.
At the sametime you could also say that maybe not God displays signs of humanity but maybe we display charistics of God
Genisis 1:27 and he created man in his own image.
Well, mainly because I have no idea how my own mind could have come up with some of it! some of it is obvious, like the basic 'jesus came to save the world from sin' rant, but there are things that i only know the basics of and suddenly I understand what is trying to be protrayed. Also, I never wrote suddenly like that before I became a christian.