Question

Pollux V

Ra Bless America
Registered Senior Member
For a project due tomorrow I'm working on genetics. My idea was for neanderthals to be reintroduced to Maine. The thing is, they no longer exist, and I believe that they can be produced simply by modifying key genetics of our own species. Correct me if I'm wrong. My question is, if we wanted to create a neanderthal from a modern man, what chromosome(s) would we have to modify? If you know, could you please include an internet source to back up your statement?

If this project is out of my league as a high school student or is undoable for whatever reason, please tell me the instant you see this so I can change my project in time for the deadline. Thanks for your help.

--Ian
 
Neanderthal was a separate line... at least modern evidence supports that theory and there is still much controversy over if Neanderthal could and did breed with Cro-Magnon and thus is part of are ancestry. From genetic evidence there looks like no human alive today have any link to Neanderthal. This means that Neanderthal was a separate and original breed and that any genetic difference it had that made it distinct as been lost forever. So to answer your question plain and simple: Modern Homo Sapiens have no Neanderthal genes and can not be retro-engineered into a Neanderthals. If you want to make Homo Erectus by retro-engineering modern Homo Sapiens that is much more possible. Unfortunately are understanding of our genome and proteome is still crude and you will have to wait several decades before it will be possible to carry out a experiment like yours

Also Neanderthal never lived in North America so Maine would not be a reintroduction spot. I would advice France or some place in Europe as this was that last home of the Neanderthal.

If you want to do a Genetics project here is a good post to look at: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14477
 
Pollux:

I've often been intreagued by that idea. At this point, however, it's about as much fantasy as Jurasic Park. To date, we have not been able to recover complete nuclear DNA from a Neanderthal speciman. The work that has been so far (see Fetus' post above) is using mitocondrial DNA (you can look that up if you don't know what it is). And even that was just fragments, not fully complete chromosomes. We wouldn't know what genes to manipulte to make a Neanderthal DNA sequence.

I suspect that some day we might recover a frozen specimen that would yield full DNA. There are a few guys out there now trying to do just that with Mamoths-- those get found all the time in Siberia.

If you have the option, you might consider a paper on the ethics of doing this, if we could. We don't know for sure, but right now our best understanding is that Neanderthals were a seperate species (or close to being seperate), but still fully Human in almost all ways. Once you created a Neanderthal, how would he/she be treated? How would we determine whether it was "human"?
 
Okay, thanks a lot. If I could do a Homo Erectus, could you suggest a chromosome or two (that's all I need) that would be required to be modified, in order to get the hairier body, the lower brow, smaller brain etc?
 
There is a disorder that causes full body hair... can't remember its name they traced it to a intron on some chromosome... see if you can find that search for "wolf boy" on the internet. Also search for "pinhead" as that to is a genetic disorder that may or may not be ancestral.
 
Thank you..again and again.

I need a chromosome, I've checked into this wolf boy thing, I haven't found much to suggest that there's a disorder out there that makes people stupid and furry.

If I wanted to make a human as close as I could to, say, an erectus or a heidelbergensis, what specific chromosome(s) would I have to play around with. What would make there be longer hair, a bigger jaw, thicker bones, lower brow, smaller brain, etc. What would get us as close as to what our ancestors were.

I'd just make a neanderthal if I could, but the thing is I need to modify a species, I can't create one out of nowhere. We are, I believe, the closest thing to an erectus or the others described.
 
don't know because we don't have a chromosomal map on Homo Erectus... sorry :( Also that "wolf boy" and "pinhead" disorders are spearate
 
So if you were a mad scientist and wanted to really hurt this young fetus, wanted to make it hairy and really really stupid, what chromosomes would you modify? Hell, it doesn't even have to be an erectus or a neanderthal, just make the f*cker a hairy dumbass.
 
Don't know... you got to research this on your own man... I told you were to look but hey its your project.
 
Fetus I wasn't talking about you, just for the record. I should have said embryo instead of fetus.

If you thought I was talking about you, then I apologize.
 
Pollux:

You are a funny guy! We don't know enough about human genetics to do anything remotely along the lines you are talking about. We have mapped a number of single genes that cause certain hereditary diseases, but that 's it. There is no known gene for intelligence or hairiness. Forget it. We have no DNA from any non-sapien ancestor. It would be wonderful if we did, but we don't.

One thing you might look at if you really want to propose some wild-ass experiment. And you'll have to do some web surfing here, but shouldn't be too hard to find. Recently, some geneticists have produced mice embryoes with enlarged brains. They have wrinkled cortexes something like humans. No one knows if the mice were smarter (they weren't allowed to live), but I suppose you could start with that gene, and find it's counterpart in a chimpazee, tweak that, let the chimp grow up and see if it was something like a primitive homo species.

Good luck!

PS: When you write your paper, I hope you'll let us all see what you end up with. You may end up scaring your teacher to death!
 
I already wrote the paper, hopefully the guy won't kill me for not including a whole hellofa lotta information on genetics. The story takes place in the nearish future, so the events that take place are possible. It's kinda like the caveman-jurassic-park.

In the near future Maine has become the only state in the Union that lacks human inhabitants. A weak economy and immigration to other states by the newer generations of people has left the forests and the wildlife of Maine to reclaim the land. There is not a trace of human habitation anywhere. Biolife, a large and popular corporation specializing in the production of new organisms, has recently begun an experiment. By heavily altering modern human genes, an identical Neanderthal population has been created and distributed into the woods of Maine, the location the only place not touched by modern human civilization on Earth. Currently, the Neanderthal population has passed successfully into its second generation and great a great deal of research has been gathered about our long-dead cousin, however this is not to say that problems have not arisen.

Since only little information as to the genetic makeup of the Neanderthal exists, the human genome itself was modified and retrograded again and again, with new chromosomes being added and old ones being either reworked or replaced. The two species, Homo sapiens neanderthalis and Homo sapiens sapiens are luckily closely related, however the construction of a workable gene has taken over ten years to complete and perfect. It is in the company’s confidence that its Neanderthals are authentic to within half a percent of the original. This project has been undertaken purely for scientific research.

The Neanderthals themselves were created and grown in a lab with the most advanced scientific equipment manufactured. Upon animation they were taken to Maine via helicopter and dropped off in the woods with special implants under their skin that are able to track and give readouts of their bodies. In an absolute emergency a powerful electric shock can be administered to any of the Neanderthals, delivering a swift and painless death if the need arrives.

With the Neanderthals arrival the total wilderness of Maine has not been changed significantly, some trees have been cut down, but it is estimated that the Neanderthal project will not last long enough to develop agriculture. Before the Neanderthals were introduced many species of animal were running rampant in Maine and wreaking havoc upon populations of other animals and other economies in the provinces of Canada and the US. Now, the population has come under control, with a powerful natural predator that will not over or under hunt. The one problem with the entire idea is that a small group of Neanderthals has not been tracked for several weeks, their computer chips seem to have been removed somehow. As such, the team supervising the operation has been unable to discern their location or the location of their offspring, who they would have tagged at or near birth. The last time this tribe was seen was near the border of Nova Scotia. The public has not been informed, however satellites have been commissioned to keep an eye on a great deal of that area, in the event that the Neanderthals cross out of Biolife’s jurisdiction.



4/09/59



Rumors have circulated through Nova Scotia and greater Canada of a group of terrifying men running across the roads and inhabiting the woods. Photographs have been taken and they appear to be legitimate. Satellites have been positioned appropriately and Canada’s law enforcement is checking into the matter. Biolife has continued to tell neither the government nor the people. CEO Jack Braun has ordered that the team bring the Neanderthals back to Maine by the end of the month. If not the company will go public.



5/03/59



The Neanderthals still have not been found, and several people in Nova Scotia have been found brutally slain. Braun has resigned as CEO. The team behind the project has been disbanded and all known living Neanderthals have been destroyed with the chips we placed under their skin. The public is calling for an explanation and Biolife is at the top of the suspect list.



This past log, written by the Team Head Adam Gordon has been brought to the trial of Biolife and it is in the interest of the defense attorney for Biolife that it is analyzed to the fullest to pick out any weaknesses that could be used against the corporation. Every religious group known of to the attorney has filed a lawsuit against Biolife for “unethical mistreatment of the human being.” The families of the eight victims have also filed suit. Biolife declared bankruptcy eight months ago, about three months after the last entry in this briefing. It is anticipated that little can be done to prevent the lawsuits, however the current CEO of Biolife, Adam Gordon, had declined to settle any of the cases beforehand, which would have been the preferable action rather than taking the plaintiffs to court. It is his belief that the “Neanderthal Undertaking” was a grand scientific project that should not be criticized for its mistakes and that the victims and their families were merely caught in the way of research. At this time public opinion of the CEO is below one percent of those polled. It is recommended that any further suits be settled immediately, it is unlikely that a viable defense can be found. Biolife is at fault for these deaths and this destruction, and it seems that Biolife will pay for it until the rogue Neanderthals are found. The most recent sighting was of their group heading into the Northwest Territories of Canada, it should be easy for satellites to spot them. However if they find a way to cross into Russia Biolife will be unable to track them any further.
 
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