Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I appreciate your attitude. I actually agree with you on a lot of things. And, if i read you correctly, i dont have to apologize for calling you an atheist.
Question for Christians: would you ever refuse to follow God’s commands?
- Thread starter Nasor
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I appreciate your attitude. I actually agree with you on a lot of things. And, if i read you correctly, i dont have to apologize for calling you an atheist.
Hmmm...? Lets see now...
God tells man, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and then He tells Abraham, Thou Shalt Kill! And He even rewards him for being willing to break the command of God, sin, and kill his own son.
I don't see any problem here do you?
Yes. Firstly, that God has ordered the killings of many that weren't so fortunate as Issac, and secondly, that Abraham was willing to kill his own son just because he had convinced himself God was speaking to him. Faith? Hardly. Insanity is a more fitting word for this.
SetiAlpha6; said:
Great. I just had to stick my nose into this topic. Now I need to go look something up, so y'all get to come along with me.
Okay, the answer is that the tale of Abraham's sacrifice comes in Genesis 22. The Ten Commandments are not issued until later in the story (Exodus 20). At the time of Abraham's sacrifice, the only binding covenant was between Abraham and God (Genesis 15-17). In short, the Commandments were not yet revealed to the people.
letter of the law or the spirit of the law?
would i break the letter of the law or the spirit of the law?
doesnt the bible say something about people passing their babies through the fire for God and God says the idea never entered his mind.
would i break the letter of the law or the spirit of the law?
doesnt the bible say something about people passing their babies through the fire for God and God says the idea never entered his mind.
Thank you for the correction Tiassa! I was wrong!
Abraham still must have known that it was evil to kill his own innocent son because of how God treated Cain when he killed Abel. Killing was declared to be "evil" and "wicked" and a sin by God then, long before the Ten Commandments were ever given to man.
Abraham was rewarded for his willingness to perform a sin at the command of God.
There is still a problem here in my view. :bugeye:
Thanks!
There is no indication that Abraham knew anything about Cain or Abel...However, it is clear that Abraham came to know/understand/believe God is just--"Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"--therefore neither God's command nor his obedience to the command would be evil. Any gaps of understanding within the mind, any misgivings within his heart (concerning Isaac) were bridged by subordinating all to faith/trust in the character of God. Furthermore, it is revealed that when By faith Abraham...offered up Isaac...Abraham believed that if Isaac died, God was able to bring him back to life again.
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No, don't apologize. I am not an atheist, but atheists that think and ask questions about their beliefs about the universe are probably closer to my mindset than fundie theists.I appreciate your attitude. I actually agree with you on a lot of things. And, if i read you correctly, i dont have to apologize for calling you an atheist.
At least we can agree to let each other think what we want - in peace.
I can't remember why this concept is familiar, , but i seem to remember it. Please tell us all where that is revealed.
Where is that "revealed"? I don't see anything like that in the story.
That thought was added centuries later by the author of the Book of Hebrews.
Hebrews 11
17By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.
This is a very dangerous place to be my friend. It is a place where any evil can be justified in the name of God.
I don't think so.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind...the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus...
Those who live in the shelter of the Most High will find rest in the shadow of the Almighty. This I declare of the LORD: He alone is my refuge, my place of safety; he is my God, and I am trusting him. For he will rescue you from every trap and protect you from the fatal plague. He will shield you with his wings. He will shelter you with his feathers. His faithful promises are your armor and protection. Do not be afraid of the terrors of the night, nor fear the dangers of the day, nor dread the plague that stalks in darkness, nor the disaster that strikes at midday. Though a thousand fall at your side, though ten thousand are dying around you, these evils will not touch you.
But you will see it with your eyes; you will see how the wicked are punished.
Conversely, in the midst of their public humiliation, these same wicked will see the glorification of the Righteous...I guess the wailing and gnashing of teeth engaged in at that time by these unfortunates will be completely understandable... :shrug:
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M*W: No, that's not what it means. Abraham was a metaphor for the Sign of Aries. Isaac was the name for the lamb of sacrifice of the Sign of Aries. Abraham, if he lived, was a pantheist as was his father Haran who lived around 3000 BCE. Sarah was another name for "princess." In this story, Sarai was the daughter of Pharaoh and Avram was the son of Pharaoh. You do the math. They were not Israelis. They were not even Canaanites. They were Egyptian.
I don't think Abraham was a living human being. He represents the Sign of Aries who sacrificed the paschal lamb for atonement of sins.
These ancients who may have names and places didn't exist. They are simply metaphors. There is nothing more than astro-theology to explain their existence.
No gods, no heros, no mythical creations.
Please tell me that you are not actually looking forward to personally watching the suffering of countless billions, even your unsaved friends and relatives, Photizo! You cannot be so cold blooded that you would actually enjoy the reality of such a scene, can you? Please tell me that you are not cold and hard to the sufferings of others like David, the author of Psalms was! David killed many thousands himself.
Photizo, according to your own faith, if God ever told you personally to kill your own children, or kill and rape the woman down the street, you would have to do it. What if it was your own personal test of faith from God? You would have to do it no matter how evil it looked, right?
Is this true or is this false?
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That would be a terrible punishment in itself for anyone but a psychotic.
I'm looking forward to the Exultation, Vindication, and Glorification of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
False--according to my faith.
Then what would stop you from obeying God's command to kill and to rape? On what basis would you be able to make a truly moral, good, and righteous decision. Do you then know more than God?
If you don't do it you are disobeying the direct order of God. If you do as He commands, you will not only betray the ones you love, but destroy your own character as well in the process.
Who will you love more, God or men?