In general, Christians believe that they are supposed to do what God tells them to do. My question for the Christians here: are there any sorts of orders that you would refuse if you thought that they came from God? For example, in the bible God orders his followers to slaughter babies (and they do it). If God gave you that sort of order today, would you follow it? Or would you refuse God’s command, and tell him that you thought killing babies was simply wrong and that you weren’t going to do it?
Question for Christians: would you ever refuse to follow God’s commands?
- Thread starter Nasor
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Well they revere a man who was split-seconds away from killing his OWN son because God told him to, so surely this proposition would be child's play. Excuse the pun.
Personally I always thought it would have been a much better story if he had flatly refused, and God congratulated him for having the guts to stand up for what he knew was right in the face of tremendous pressure. Oh well.
I think if a God did exist, your account would have been the more fitting one.
+eleventy billion
I´m sure that parable has a different meaning, but I don´t know what it is thought. Maybe make big sacrifices for what you think is right? I don´t know but I see no point in debating how Christians (even if this is in the Torah) follow this doctrine of a son-killing God; when the point is nowere near that one.
After a second thought, it seems in this version, the praised faith of Abraham would still be just as present--perhaps even more admirable--and he would retain his rationality (something God unfortunately did NOT stop him from sacrificing). So once again, you are very right, even on their own terms.
No the point of the story isn't to directly promote son-killing, but that's precisely the over-point. Christians overlook that and uphold this tale as one of supreme virtue, indeed they are not alone; Abraham is the founding father of all three major monotheistic religions. The fact that they do is telling of their lack of interest of what is rational or logical, and is certainly advocating an unhealthy mindset.
To be fair, many do this without realizing it as they have not given this story proper thought. Often times, they are much more reasonable than their ideologies.
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I think the intended meaning is that you are supposed to have absolute, unquestioning, unhesitating obedience to anything that god tells you, no matter what.
I don't understand what you mean here.
Exactly why I rejected the fundamentals of christianity at age 7. Straight away after learning the Abraham and Isaac story.
I believe that which you said as well, anything God tells you directly, you should do so, who are you to question the highest authority? The question would be: what do you consider to be "God´s words"? I certainly think the Bible is not an absolute truth, not at all; not even to be considered "God´s words".
God´s words is that which you feel is right for others, without any selfish purposes.
But that would mean questioning whether God was right. And thats not allowed! God is always right, even if you think he's wrong!
That sort of view seems to imply that any act would be morally acceptable if god told you to do it. Are christians really just one divine command away from any horrific atrocity that you could name?
Interesting Question.
If i truly believed that God was calling upon me to do something i would not refuse to do it. I may fail to do it but i would not refuse to do it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
The understanding would be that god knows better than a man what is necessary.
So, if God told me personally (how that would actually happen is beyond me) to do something I would do it. The problem with this question - if I heard a voice, that said it was God, telling me to kill someone or some other obviously unchristian thing, I would assume it was a hallucination or some demon or crazy shit like that, and I wouldn't do it.
And you would have to be a complete idiot to use some voice in your head as a reason to do something which all the teachings of christianity prohibit.
Abraham had no religion to follow, only a personal relationship with God (supposedly), so how he applies to christianity is quite cloudy. The basic idea of that story is (basically)- "do you trust God with your life?" And, although it may have been a terrible stress to put Abraham under, the son was never in danger. There was an animal that was supposed to be sacrificed instead.
So, if God told me personally (how that would actually happen is beyond me) to do something I would do it. The problem with this question - if I heard a voice, that said it was God, telling me to kill someone or some other obviously unchristian thing, I would assume it was a hallucination or some demon or crazy shit like that, and I wouldn't do it.
And you would have to be a complete idiot to use some voice in your head as a reason to do something which all the teachings of christianity prohibit.
Abraham had no religion to follow, only a personal relationship with God (supposedly), so how he applies to christianity is quite cloudy. The basic idea of that story is (basically)- "do you trust God with your life?" And, although it may have been a terrible stress to put Abraham under, the son was never in danger. There was an animal that was supposed to be sacrificed instead.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
But theists say that they talk to God all the time.. They also claim they can 'feel' God.
What if you hear God say this to you and you feel it really is God saying it. Or better yet, what if God proves to you in some way that it really is him ?Would you then carry out the task given to you by God ?
If God proves in a sensible way, i.e. does something that only God could do to show that the message is his, and there is no possibility of coincidental occurrence creating an illusion of his presence, then I would have a long heart to heart talk, and after that I would imagine I would do whatever God said, as long as God would give me some reasonable explanation for it, even if it went against my previous understanding of God's desires or moralities. Actually, I honestly would probably just doubt my sanity and go to a psychiatrist if that happened, because it seems so far from likely.
Being a lunatic or idiot "for God", and doing something crazy or stupid, is fine - just as long as it falls within the acceptable range of human behaviors. Stand on the street corner and yell if you want, and say "God told me to", it is none of my business - but don't kill someone and then say "God told me to," or you are just insane in my opinion.
Also, people feel things that are real and they also feel things that are false - when these things have practical value we call them good, and when they are destructive we call them neuroses. Sometimes the true and false are hard to discern, but value is usually measurable by people that still have their wits about them and aren't being whipped into a frenzy by fear or passion.
so wrong.
I was just reminded tonight of the two stereotypes in Thomas Mann's "the magic mountain". One, a rabid secularist; the other, an unthinking spirtualizer - neither make any sense because they are stereotypes of themselves. Just like most fundamentalists, atheist or theist. Irrational thiests and lawless atheists aren't the only possibilities.
Just because I look at history, my experience, and the experience of others, and doubt God does much audible speaking, it just makes me rational, not an atheist.