question always asked... where is/was god

[Magical Realist]

Think of this.

you are in charge. Why would you control everything? And not grant free will?
Say a business. You hire and fire. But as long as the corporation keeps going. Why would you interfere?

Since Adam was deceived and ate the apple. The world has had a bigger plan. We were given free will. And in the End Times. As laid out vaguely in revelations. Heaven is being prepared for those who are saved. And satan will be thrown in the lake of fire.
A battle of sorts must wage.
And we have to be given free will.

Because getting your freewill taken away by being killed by someone else ISN'T respecting freewill. Or rather it is, but only the freewill of those who take away the freewill of others. Why would anyone run a universe like that? God could easily intervene in those cases where someone's freewill is endangered. But he doesn't. And that's not justice. That's promoting only the power of a few a-holes to take away the freewill of many others. Might as well live in a universe ruled by random chance. At least then there'd be noone to blame.

 

[R1D2]

I am liking you but,

For the record, Adam was NOT deceived--Eve was. Adam ate willingly... of his own free will , despite knowledge to the contrary concerning his action. Since then, free will has been displaced by self will, a merciless, incompetent tyrant.

. Adam was deceived Eve knew what she was eating Adam may not have. And both were tricked. And now the Garden is under water.

Moot points though.

 

[Photizo]

My concern is that The Word of God is accurately represented. When you make a claim contrary to His Word, you misrepresent Him. Not a good idea.

 

[R1D2]

Because getting your freewill taken away by being killed by someone else ISN'T respecting freewill. Or rather it is, but only the freewill of those who take away the freewill of others. Why would anyone run a universe like that? God could easily intervene in those cases where someone's freewill is endangered. But he doesn't. And that's not justice. That's promoting only the power of a few a-holes to take away the freewill of many others. Might as well live in a universe ruled by random chance. At least then there'd be noone to blame.

Like he said.

He didn't intervene in the death of His own Son...He knows what He is doing and why He does or allows anything. For those who love Him, and are called according to His purposes, one can find rest even in apparent tragedy. Faith bridges the knowledge gap. His Word tells us that we will in fact know the answers we crave and which perplex us now. He is not CEO...they are accountable, He is accountable to no one--including even you.

 

[Balerion]

You atheists are talking nonsense. I desire meaning. I desire sacredness. Atheists routinely destroy those things.

You desire to be a serf, to be under the bootheel of a celestial dictator whose idea of unconditional love is to let you worship him eternally if you follow his rules and condemn you to eternal hellfire if you don't. That's what you desire.

True meaning can be found in a sunset, or a daughter's smile. You don't need to capitulate to a tyrant for it.

 

[Balerion]

"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies... For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver but with the precious blood of Christ..."

Ah, that old chestnut. We're in debt for a sacrifice made before we were born and that we never asked for. And thanks to that death, we now owe him our eternal souls. Oh wait, we owed him that already. This is just a new set of ridiculous rules. Awesome.

After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him...When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet."

It would have been a nice gesture, if it hadn't been loaded with the implication that failing to do the same would result in death.

Have the same attitude among yourselves that was also in the Messiah Jesus: Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death-- even to death on a cross."

Oh, so being a slave is noble. How convenient!

It's His (God) own example we follow and there is no shame in it! Rather, great honor and privilege. It looks shameful from the perspective of this place where everything is distorted and false...where all manner of evil currently holds sway. This state of things is passing away--and all of you with it, should you fail to repent.

The master tells the slave there's no shame in being a servant. Don't see a conflict of interest there?

It does nothing of the sort. It's the desire to be like the One Whom we adore (to Whom all Glory and Honor will be given). The ultimate paradox, and a testimony to the foolishness of human 'wisdom'/understanding/. Also a hint as to who's slaves you in fact are.

This is pulpit talk. Gibberish.

 

[R1D2]

This may be true...

My concern is that The Word of God is accurately represented. When you make a claim contrary to His Word, you misrepresent Him. Not a good idea.

Pastors have opinions. And so do different Christians. I am a Christian of no denomination. Even though I am leaning to baptist. Being in the south its hard to get away from.

 

[Photizo]

Pastors have opinions. And so do different Christians. I am a Christian of no denomination. Even though I am leaning to baptist. Being in the south its hard to get away from.

Opinions are fine with respect to disputed things. What I shared with you is NOT opinion, nor is it disputed. Paul clearly states in 1 Tim. 2:14 : "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived..."

 

[Photizo]

We're in debt for a sacrifice made before we were born and that we never asked for. And thanks to that death, we now owe him our eternal souls. Oh wait, we owed him that already. This is just a new set of ridiculous rules. Awesome.

You're blabbering about things you know nothing about. Not to worry... this "new set of ridiculous rules" doesn't apply to you.

 

[Balerion]

You're blabbering about things you know nothing about.

You don't seem to know much about it yourself, chief. Every opportunity you've had to elucidate has resulted in some wishy-washy "Praise Jesus-ah!" moment with no meaning whatsoever. That, or you throw scripture at the wall and hope something sticks. Not once have you actually articulated your position, except to say that we're all going to hell or that we're idiots or some other such evasion.

Not to worry... this "new set of ridiculous rules" doesn't apply to you.

See, shows how little you know. The rules apply to everyone, per your slave master.

 

[Photizo]

The rules apply to everyone, per your slave master.

You were referencing my quote provided as an example to support your earlier comments concerning Christians. You then began ranting/babbling about what you considered some "new set of ridiculous rules", as if those passages apply to people such as yourself. They don't. However, you are correct in your understanding that His LAW applies to everyone. This establishes the guilt of the entire human race before God. Acceptance of His verdict upon you, opens the way for pardon should you so desire.

 

[Magical Realist]

He didn't intervene in the death of His own Son...

No..far from it. He's the monster that demanded the bloody sacrifice in the first place. What kind of God murders his own son just so he can pretend his own created children are worthy of his love and salvation? Not one I'd ever worship.

He knows what He is doing and why He does or allows anything. For those who love Him, and are called according to His purposes, one can find rest even in apparent tragedy.

He runs the universe exactly as if he didn't even exist. He hides his face from his own created beings and allows chance to rule their lives, the weak being victimized by the strong, the evil given free reign over the good. This is a shitty way to run a universe. He might as well not even exist. Oh wait! He doesn't! And if you think senseless tragedies like Sandy Hook can somehow be rationalized as good, you are morally insane. How dare you insult the intelligence of the parents of those murdered children. There IS no justification for murder. The fact that christians always try to mitigate the seriousness of such tragedies in order to defend their God shows what cold-hearted inhuman souls they really are.

Faith bridges the knowledge gap. His Word tells us that we will in fact know the answers we crave and which perplex us now. He is not CEO...they are accountable, He is accountable to no one--including even you.

Faith is merely believing whatever you want to in spite of all reason and evidence. If you want to believe in a God in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, then that's a choice you make only for yourself. Noone else has any moral obligation to think the same way.

 

[Balerion]

You were referencing my quote provided as an example to support your earlier comments concerning Christians. You then began ranting/babbling about what you considered some "new set of ridiculous rules", as if those passages apply to people such as yourself. They don't. However, you are correct in your understanding that His LAW applies to everyone. This establishes the guilt of the entire human race before God. Acceptance of His verdict upon you, opens the way for pardon should you so desire.

His law, his rules, same thing. You're trying to obfuscate now.

 

[Photizo]

He's the monster that demanded the bloody sacrifice in the first place. What kind of God murders his own son just so he can pretend his own created children are worthy of his love and salvation? Not one I'd ever worship.

Nor would I. In a word, your understanding of God is warped. His decision to redeem Mankind out of death and destruction was not predicated upon some selfish demand/motive, but on selfless choice, consistent with Who He Is in the face of what was otherwise (from the human perspective) a hopeless situation. It was entered into and endured willingly by God on behalf of those who deserved nothing from Him. He laid down His Life voluntarily. Not recognising the depth of His love revealed by such actions but rather characterizing Him as you have, speaks volumes concerning the darkness of your own heart and this assessment of mine concerning you is far more accurate than is yours of Him. You don't even give Him the benefit of the doubt i.e. "Your Word says you are a loving God but I don't understand how this fact squares with what I observe; nevertheless, I will trust you in light of my lack of understanding/knowledge."

Know this: His Word declares one will be judged by the same measure they have used for others therefore imagine your 'dismay' when your measure is applied to yourself by Him.

 

[Balerion]

Nor would I. In a word, your understanding of God is warped. His decision to redeem Mankind out of death and destruction was not predicated upon some selfish demand/motive, but on selfless choice, consistent with Who He Is in the face of what was otherwise (from the human perspective) a hopeless situation. It was entered into and endured willingly by God on behalf of those who deserved nothing from Him. He laid down His Life voluntarily. Not recognising the depth of His love revealed by such actions but rather characterizing Him as you have, speaks volumes concerning the darkness of your own heart and this assessment of mine concerning you is far more accurate than is yours of Him. You don't even give Him the benefit of the doubt i.e. "Your Word says you are a loving God but I don't understand how this fact squares with what I observe; nevertheless, I will trust you in light of my lack of understanding/knowledge."

It really is interesting to see how such a simple story can be twisted and made myth so as to satisfy the needs of the sheep who require such consolation. An apocalyptic rabbi gets crucified for running off at the mouth, and his legend grows until his death becomes a kind of cosmic loophole for an apparently-impotent God who cannot simply forgive his sinning children. These zealots are so busy with the pulpit talk of oh lawd how much does Jesus have--ha!--I say does Jesus lawd have mercy! that you can't even be bothered to ask why the need for such brutal symbolism, or why he couldn't just waive his hand and say "Okay, do over," or why he would even go to the bother of forgiving what he obviously considers to be an incapable and incompetent creation. Skepticism, inquiry, none of these things hold any value to a zealot like Phozito, and in fact they threaten him, because such things might lead to some uncomfortable conclusions, and he's too fragile to deal with reality.

Know this: His Word declares one will be judged by the same measure they have used for others therefore imagine your 'dismay' when your measure is applied to yourself by Him.

Save your threats, hoss. That bullshit might work on kids in the backwoods you hail from, but this is a science forum. You're not scaring anyone (okay, except for maybe Wynn.)

 

[Magical Realist]

Nor would I. In a word, your understanding of God is warped. His decision to redeem Mankind out of death and destruction was not predicated upon some selfish demand/motive, but on selfless choice, consistent with Who He Is in the face of what was otherwise (from the human perspective) a hopeless situation. It was entered into and endured willingly by God on behalf of those who deserved nothing from Him. He laid down His Life voluntarily. Not recognising the depth of His love revealed by such actions but rather characterizing Him as you have, speaks volumes concerning the darkness of your own heart and this assessment of mine concerning you is far more accurate than is yours of Him. You don't even give Him the benefit of the doubt i.e. "Your Word says you are a loving God but I don't understand how this fact squares with what I observe; nevertheless, I will trust you in light of my lack of understanding/knowledge."

Know this: His Word declares one will be judged by the same measure they have used for others therefore imagine your 'dismay' when your measure is applied to yourself by Him.

In a word, I'm now to be demonized as "dark" and worthy of eternal torture by your monster God simply for applying the same basic moral standards to him that I'd apply to myself or anyone else. Fact remains there is simply no evidence of your God nor of him being all lovey dovey about you or anyone else. If that angers you that's not my fault. Deal with it.

 

[Photizo]

"Applying the same basic moral standards to him that I'd apply to myself or anyone else." You have just demonstrated the inadequacy of such standards but you refuse to acknowledge it. When He applies them to you, the inevitable epiphany will reveal the true nature of such 'moral standards' to be woefully inadequate. Being the just and perfect God He is, He will then apply true standards to yourself and all that pertains to you--including your moral standards. There will be no appeal.

 

[Balerion]

"Applying the same basic moral standards to him that I'd apply to myself or anyone else." You have just demonstrated the inadequacy of such standards but you refuse to acknowledge it. When He applies them to you, the inevitable epiphany will reveal the true nature of such 'moral standards' to be woefully inadequate. Being the just and perfect God He is, He will then apply true standards to yourself and all that pertains to you--including your moral standards. There will be no appeal.

And there it is. Not logic, not reason, but "inevitable epiphany." In other words, wish-thinking. Delusion.

At least you admit it.

 

[Magical Realist]

"Applying the same basic moral standards to him that I'd apply to myself or anyone else." You have just demonstrated the inadequacy of such standards but you refuse to acknowledge it. When He applies them to you, the inevitable epiphany will reveal the true nature of such 'moral standards' to be woefully inadequate. Being the just and perfect God He is, He will then apply true standards to yourself and all that pertains to you--including your moral standards. There will be no appeal.

Ooo..me so scared! lol! Save your curses and threats for gullible children cuz I have no fear of your imaginary monster. But then that's all you christians have left after being refuted--sadistic fantasies of what your divine henchman is going to do to anyone who so much as just questions your infallible authority. Just another amusing demonstration of the childish and spoiled temperament of christians who just never grow out of their pathetic missing daddy complex.

 

[Mazulu]

Ooo..me so scared! lol! Save your curses and threats for gullible children cuz I have no fear of your imaginary monster. But then that's all you christians have left after being refuted--sadistic fantasies of what your divine henchman is going to do to anyone who so much as just questions your infallible authority. Just another amusing demonstration of the childish and spoiled temperament of christians who just never grow out of their pathetic missing daddy complex.

I was just watching a movie called The Unloved, about a little girl in the foster care system. It was very sad. It's a harsh world out there. If Christianity, as a source of hope, is defeated by atheists, then what? What is left to give us hope? Cold reason? Intellectual snobbery? What?