question about christianity!

[Saquist]

Ok here is my main question that would answer alot of things for me. First off, why did It take so long for god to figure out that everyone would sin and the punishment for sin is death. If god is of justice and perfect why did it take him so many (years) to sacrifice his son jesus for our sins, all those people who died, died as a sinner and went to hell between the period of no savior. Although they were sinners and god knew this yet did nothing about it till many were in hell. Is that justice? It also confuses me about years im not sure physically how a human could live up to 969 years like Methuselah. Possibly since 40 days is mentioned alot threwout the holy bible it means a year is 40 days in the bible? and that would be more physically possible being he would be around 100 years or so. Im not sure really but a few verses from the bible i could research would be nice. Im a strong believer in christ as my savior and in god and the holy spirit. A answer to these questions would furthur my walk with god even more. Thank you and god bless
-John D.

Your question is essentialy, "Why did God wait to provide the sacrifice.?"
The question is related to "why so many suffer and die" and "does God really care?"

How it Happened
The answer is because the angel we now know as Satan started a Rebellion. Humans tend to be a bit self centered. But the issue actually started in Heaven not on Earth. If you recall Satan drew with down with him "a third of the stars." or angels. Man was drawn into this dispute when the angel now known as Satan persuaded Eve to take what didn't belong to her and accused God of holding back knowledge.

A Fair Hearing
There were still faithful angels not to mention the Son of God watching these events. No doubt they are intrested in the accusations and the out come. With this in mind instead of destroying the rebels, we aswell as Satan were allowed to prove our case. God has also been using the history that followed to prove his case aswell. As we saw in Job man is capable of being faithful even under the influence of sin.

The Purpose of Israel
As soon as man sinned God created the need for the Messiah at Gen 3:15 To preserve true worship on Earth despite the wickedness that would come he would establish a nation through one man and bring the seed that would correct sin through that seed. Jesus was that seed and he confirmed that the "weeds would be allowed to grow with wheat". to avoid damaging the innocent.

Between Sin and Israel
The problem that had to be corrected was the Angels that took man's form and began breeding. Creating the superhumans. Some people believed these to be Hercules and the legends that proliferated Europe. The Demons had to cut off and the hybrids had to be destroyed. They were an introduction of genetic material to the human genome that was never meant to be.

This is from the understanding I had been taught. I hope it helps

 

[Yorda]

we can't say that god doesn't exist because most of us don't even know what god is.

It also confuses me about years im not sure physically how a human could live up to 969 years like Methuselah.

if you are connected to god you can live much longer. god is life, like a tree, and if a fruit would not fall from the lifetree, it could live much longer. but many of the people in the bible do not necessarily refer to real physical humans.

Possibly since 40 days is mentioned alot threwout the holy bible it means a year is 40 days in the bible?

the number 40 represents eternity in the bible, and eternity in that case means an undefined seemingly endless time interval.

 

[SnakeLord]

The answer is because the angel we now know as Satan started a Rebellion. Humans tend to be a bit self centered. But the issue actually started in Heaven not on Earth. If you recall Satan drew with down with him "a third of the stars." or angels. Man was drawn into this dispute when the angel now known as Satan persuaded Eve to take what didn't belong to her and accused God of holding back knowledge.

1) As an employer that has a third of all your staff walk out on you, would the most apparent reason be that they're all assholes or that you are?

2) god was holding back knowledge, (knowledge of good and evil). You can hardly contest that. Before the snakes intervention Adam and Eve were even oblivious to their own nudity. That is how this god wanted people; pig ignorant.. Is that something to be commended or do we owe the snake some thanks?

There were still faithful angels not to mention the Son of God watching these events. No doubt they are intrested in the accusations and the out come. With this in mind instead of destroying the rebels, we aswell as Satan were allowed to prove our case. God has also been using the history that followed to prove his case aswell. As we saw in Job man is capable of being faithful even under the influence of sin.

A 'hearing' becomes meaningless to an omniscient being. He already knows the outcome. As a result he would have known that many people would become possessed by the 'demons' and led into doing things/believing things/watching Pokemon completely against their will. It's one thing to leave someone with freedom until they commit a crime, it's another thing altogether to let them commit it when you know they're going to.

The Purpose of Israel
As soon as man sinned God created the need for the Messiah at Gen 3:15 To preserve true worship on Earth despite the wickedness that would come he would establish a nation through one man and bring the seed that would correct sin through that seed. Jesus was that seed and he confirmed that the "weeds would be allowed to grow with wheat". to avoid damaging the innocent.

1) What was jesus job before man sinned?

2) Gen 3:15 merely states that people will go around squashing snakes with their heels. It is based upon the story of Marduk who crushed Tiamats head with his heel when he slayed her, but origins aside I don't see anything there that suggests a messiah or to preserve true worship.

The problem that had to be corrected was the Angels that took man's form and began breeding. Creating the superhumans. Some people believed these to be Hercules and the legends that proliferated Europe. The Demons had to cut off and the hybrids had to be destroyed. They were an introduction of genetic material to the human genome that was never meant to be.

1) Now you're just being plain silly. gods employees came down out of heaven and had sex with humans which led to superhumans and demon hybrids that needed to be destroyed... :bugeye: Watch the X Files much?

2) If it was never meant to be why did it happen? This god of yours was powerless to stop demons bonking humans?

Pitiful.

 

[SkinWalker]

It is, indeed, a fanciful speculation.

 

[Saquist]

1) As an employer that has a third of all your staff walk out on you, would the most apparent reason be that they're all assholes or that you are?

ah but if that were true then why have the fair hearing?

2) god was holding back knowledge, (knowledge of good and evil). You can hardly contest that. Before the snakes intervention Adam and Eve were even oblivious to their own nudity. That is how this god wanted people; pig ignorant.. Is that something to be commended or do we owe the snake some thanks?

That's why it's called deciet.
Are you saying we're better off knowing bad?

A 'hearing' becomes meaningless to an omniscient being. He already knows the outcome. As a result he would have known that many people would become possessed by the 'demons' and led into doing things/believing things/watching Pokemon completely against their will. It's one thing to leave someone with freedom until they commit a crime, it's another thing altogether to let them commit it when you know they're going to.

Yes he does know the outcome. But even then it's not meaningless to him. He sees the import of everyone witnessing the results themselves. With absolute power God has the will and ability to correct it all in a similar manner as was done to Job.

1) What was jesus job before man sinned?

According to the Bible, the word.

2) Gen 3:15 merely states that people will go around squashing snakes with their heels. It is based upon the story of Marduk who crushed Tiamats head with his heel when he slayed her, but origins aside I don't see anything there that suggests a messiah or to preserve true worship.

Yes, you've chosen the secular view. The secular view takes no account of the metaphor being used. In biblical prophesy the bible uses the symbol of "the woman" and "seed" in accordance with government and to Jesus as coming through that "seed"

1) Now you're just being plain silly. gods employees came down out of heaven and had sex with humans which led to superhumans and demon hybrids that needed to be destroyed... :bugeye: Watch the X Files much?

2) If it was never meant to be why did it happen? This god of yours was powerless to stop demons bonking humans?

Pitiful.

Part of free will is the freedom to make the mistake. However since we're dealing with perfect creatures that for sook there propper place they too had made their choice. If a fair hearing then these angels actions spoke for themselves. If it was an issue of power then their destruction would have been simple but it would not have provided much of a testimony.

 

[Myles]

1) As an employer that has a third of all your staff walk out on you, would the most apparent reason be that they're all assholes or that you are?

2) god was holding back knowledge, (knowledge of good and evil). You can hardly contest that. Before the snakes intervention Adam and Eve were even oblivious to their own nudity. That is how this god wanted people; pig ignorant.. Is that something to be commended or do we owe the snake some thanks?



A 'hearing' becomes meaningless to an omniscient being. He already knows the outcome. As a result he would have known that many people would become possessed by the 'demons' and led into doing things/believing things/watching Pokemon completely against their will. It's one thing to leave someone with freedom until they commit a crime, it's another thing altogether to let them commit it when you know they're going to.



1) What was jesus job before man sinned?

2) Gen 3:15 merely states that people will go around squashing snakes with their heels. It is based upon the story of Marduk who crushed Tiamats head with his heel when he slayed her, but origins aside I don't see anything there that suggests a messiah or to preserve true worship.



1) Now you're just being plain silly. gods employees came down out of heaven and had sex with humans which led to superhumans and demon hybrids that needed to be destroyed... :bugeye: Watch the X Files much?

2) If it was never meant to be why did it happen? This god of yours was powerless to stop demons bonking humans?

Pitiful.

Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent response

 

[Myles]

Your question is essentialy, "Why did God wait to provide the sacrifice.?"
The question is related to "why so many suffer and die" and "does God really care?"

How it Happened
The answer is because the angel we now know as Satan started a Rebellion. Humans tend to be a bit self centered. But the issue actually started in Heaven not on Earth. If you recall Satan drew with down with him "a third of the stars." or angels. Man was drawn into this dispute when the angel now known as Satan persuaded Eve to take what didn't belong to her and accused God of holding back knowledge.

A Fair Hearing
There were still faithful angels not to mention the Son of God watching these events. No doubt they are intrested in the accusations and the out come. With this in mind instead of destroying the rebels, we aswell as Satan were allowed to prove our case. God has also been using the history that followed to prove his case aswell. As we saw in Job man is capable of being faithful even under the influence of sin.

The Purpose of Israel
As soon as man sinned God created the need for the Messiah at Gen 3:15 To preserve true worship on Earth despite the wickedness that would come he would establish a nation through one man and bring the seed that would correct sin through that seed. Jesus was that seed and he confirmed that the "weeds would be allowed to grow with wheat". to avoid damaging the innocent.

Between Sin and Israel
The problem that had to be corrected was the Angels that took man's form and began breeding. Creating the superhumans. Some people believed these to be Hercules and the legends that proliferated Europe. The Demons had to cut off and the hybrids had to be destroyed. They were an introduction of genetic material to the human genome that was never meant to be.

This is from the understanding I had been taught. I hope it helps

You get funnier with each utterance you make. How did you get so mixed up. You reject science in one breath and refer to genetic material in the next. No doubt there is something in the Bible which, if properly understood, explains all about. genetics. Why doesn't it mention evolution ?

I won't embarrass you by asking why god made creature he knew would rebel and bring sin into the world. I conjecture that he needed more fuel for his lake of fire

 

[Saquist]

That's what free will allows. The ability to choose a wrong or right path. Machines and computers come preprogramed but they don't have free will.

 

[losfomoT]

That's why it's called deciet.
Are you saying we're better off knowing bad?

Of course we are.

And the whole concept of not knowing the difference between good and evil does not make sense. If we were completely oblivious to good and evil, right and wrong, then we certainly can't be blamed for disobeying God, and eating the fruit of the tree he told us not to. We didn't know any better... at least not until after we ate the fruit.

 

[Saquist]

They already knew Good. This was before sin entered the world. What they didn't know was bad. And after all Eve was told not to eat from the tree. Don't you agree that following instructions could save your life?

 

[nova900]

They already knew Good. This was before sin entered the world. What they didn't know was bad. And after all Eve was told not to eat from the tree. Don't you agree that following instructions could save your life?

Where in genesis does it state they know good?
If they didn't know "bad" then they obviously could not separate the two concepts and know good was good. Nor could they know God was good.

 

[losfomoT]

Where in genesis does it state they know good?
If they didn't know "bad" then they obviously could not separate the two concepts and know good was good. Nor could they know God was good.

I agree.

And after all Eve was told not to eat from the tree. Don't you agree that following instructions could save your life?

You are assuming that they had a concept of 'death' and that that concept was of a 'bad' thing.

 

[SnakeLord]

ah but if that were true then why have the fair hearing?

It's actually quite ingenious. It's called shifting focus. While people like you go about blaming everything on the devil, god is free to continue annihilating whomever he sees fit.

While you were busy blaming demons, god cursed men and snakes, drowned every human on the planet, turned peoples wives to salt, murdered Egyptian children, closed womens wombs, caused plague after plague after plague and so on and so forth. The list is endless.

"The greatest trick god ever pulled was convincing the world the devil did it all. And poof... Just like that, he gets away with mass genocide".

That's why it's called deciet.

Everything the snake said was true, thus it was not deceit.

Are you saying we're better off knowing bad?

Absolutely. Without it you'd probably be best buddies with the devil and not even realise the problem with that... (Oops).

But even then it's not meaningless to him. He sees the import of everyone witnessing the results themselves.

Does that also include the victim?

According to the Bible, the word.

Which word, and in which language?

Yes, you've chosen the secular view.

The short form of: "Yes, you've chosen to not read imaginary meanings into straight forward sentences."

The secular view takes no account of the metaphor being used.

As is always the case with you fundies, when something is a distinct problem it ceases to be real or direct and becomes one of hidden invisible alter-meaning that is simply made up by you on the spot.

Part of free will is the freedom to make the mistake.

The 2 year old victim had the free will of getting raped and then diced into small cubes?

However, this is all based upon a "mistake" by 2 people, not the 6 billion of us that had no choice but to be born with sin nor every other person that has ever lived since the "mistake" of those two people, a "mistake" that was made specifically because they had no knowledge of good or evil.

Adam could have happily urinated in gods face and been none the wiser. He could have beaten Eve to a pulp and then had kinky butt sex with a t-rex and not understood what was bad about doing so.

They already knew Good. This was before sin entered the world. What they didn't know was bad.

Even if that were the case, (god disagrees with you), it would still leave a seriously distinct problem.

Yes, it is good to follow instructions. Is it bad to do the opposite?

 

[Saquist]

It's actually quite ingenious. It's called shifting focus. While people like you go about blaming everything on the devil, god is free to continue annihilating whomever he sees fit.

While you were busy blaming demons, god cursed men and snakes, drowned every human on the planet, turned peoples wives to salt, murdered Egyptian children, closed womens wombs, caused plague after plague after plague and so on and so forth. The list is endless.

So you have your own perspective most people often do.
I was speaking of the biblical view.

"The greatest trick god ever pulled was convincing the world the devil did it all. And poof... Just like that, he gets away with mass genocide".

I thought you didn't believe in God.

Everything the snake said was true, thus it was not deceit.

He said you "positively will not die". Considering that they did Indeed Die as a result wouldn't you call that deciet?

Absolutely. Without it you'd probably be best buddies with the devil and not even realise the problem with that... (Oops).

I don't understand.

Does that also include the victim?

Yes it does.

Which word, and in which language?

Perhaps if your intrest is so strong you might look it up and let me know.

The short form of: "Yes, you've chosen to not read imaginary meanings into straight forward sentences."

1 Tim 1:13 Keep beholding the pattern of healthful words...

As is always the case with you fundies, when something is a distinct problem it ceases to be real or direct and becomes one of hidden invisible alter-meaning that is simply made up by you on the spot.

Or it's understood that all prophesies in the bible are conveyed by metaphor and symbolism but you'd have to read and study to have that understanding.

The 2 year old victim had the free will of getting raped and then diced into small cubes?

Ah that is persecution. The rapist did have Free will. He did choose to do wrong. The child had free will aswell but obviously this did not lead to the mistake. I'm sure you knew that.

However, this is all based upon a "mistake" by 2 people, not the 6 billion of us that had no choice but to be born with sin nor every other person that has ever lived since the "mistake" of those two people, a "mistake" that was made specifically because they had no knowledge of good or evil.

And that's why we've been allowed to live. It wasn't our fault our original parents made a mistake that indangered us but we're living the consequences.

Even if that were the case, (god disagrees with you), it would still leave a seriously distinct problem.

A perculiar statement.

Yes, it is good to follow instructions. Is it bad to do the opposite?

If it leads to your death then I would have to classify that as bad wouldn't you?

 

[Saquist]

I agree.



You are assuming that they had a concept of 'death' and that that concept was of a 'bad' thing.

The original pair had communication with God. As the gospels and the lengthy processes of the High Priest showed we don't have that benefit today. But they could have asked anything the wanted and seeing as they were inhabiting a Garden they would have been familar with what death means which is the discontinuation of life-decomposing.

 

[Myles]

That's what free will allows. The ability to choose a wrong or right path. Machines and computers come preprogramed but they don't have free will.

Free will is a delusion

 

[Myles]

The original pair had communication with God. As the gospels and the lengthy processes of the High Priest showed we don't have that benefit today. But they could have asked anything the wanted and seeing as they were inhabiting a Garden they would have been familar with what death means which is the discontinuation of life-decomposing.

So god gave us the free will to call up earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes and all other natural disasters. I am not mentiong small children dying of hunger in the Third World because I know you'll blame it on man's sinfullness.

Looking at the whole picture. the sort of god you believe in would be a sadistic bastard.

 

[losfomoT]

If it leads to your death then I would have to classify that as bad wouldn't you?

The point is, how would they know that, they have no knowledge of Good and Bad.

The original pair had communication with God. As the gospels and the lengthy processes of the High Priest showed we don't have that benefit today. But they could have asked anything the wanted and seeing as they were inhabiting a Garden they would have been familar with what death means which is the discontinuation of life-decomposing.

This does not tell them that death is bad. The 'discontinuation of life' on Earth, does not necessarily mean the discontinuation of existence. Isn't that the key ingredient of any religion?

Besides, the point is, they had no understanding of good and bad... they could not tell the two apart. Good to obey God, Bad to disobey?.. or is it the other way around? I can't tell, can you?... maybe after we eat this fruit, we will be able to tell?

 

[losfomoT]

Yes, you've chosen the secular view. The secular view takes no account of the metaphor being used. In biblical prophesy the bible uses the symbol of "the woman" and "seed" in accordance with government and to Jesus as coming through that "seed"

What does 'in biblical prophecy' refer to?

If you take a passage of the bible to be metaphorical, how do you know which metaphor is correct? It could have hundreds of metaphorical interpretations. Why don't you just take what is written to mean exactly what is written?

 

[Myles]

You have hit the nail on the head. Add to what you've said the fact that there were three generations between what Matthew wrote and what eye witnesses are supposed to have seen . Matthew was relying on the accuracy of an oral transmissionm which, as any psychologist will tell you ,is unreliable. Think Chinese whispers.

Finally think of the number of translations from different languages, i.e., Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek and you will see why there is so much dissent among Christian groups as to what the Bible is saying. Each sect or denomination has " experts " who know better than another cult's " experts"