Quantum Creationism -- Is It Science Or Is It Religion?

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Well, that's a new wrinkle.
The effect on the light is equivalent — it gets stretched and redshifted by identical amounts — but the physical phenomenon causing the redshift is due to the expanding Universe, not from the object speeding away through space.
This is exactly what I am talking about.
The universe is expanding at FTL, things inside the universe cannot travel @ FTL
I think I made that very point.
Ethan Siegel:. . . when we put all the puzzle pieces we have together today, that there’s a specific distance away from us, around 14 billion light-years distant, where the expansion of the Universe pushes objects away at the equivalent of the speed of light.
I wonder what objects are being "pushed" away at FTL during the Inflationary period.
Closer than that distance, objects recede from us at speeds that are slower than light; farther away, they’re receding faster than light.
IMO, this is meaningless word-salad.

So, Mr. Siegel proposes an "irreducibly complex universe"?
 
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Well, that's a new wrinkle.

There's a 1996 paper which oppositely contends that inflation inherently requires singularities, but accordingly it's just that: an old argument perhaps kicked to the wayside in the years since. Or again, simply reflects that it may be difficult to assemble a truly consensus view of inflation. The video at the bottom served as a critique of a theory proclaimed as the most popular view of today, and yet one which several still hedge on endorsing.

This is exactly what I am talking about. The universe is expanding at FTL, things inside the universe cannot travel @ FTL
I think I made that very point.

During the inflation period space enlarged in far less than a second -- the everyday language way of conceiving it as "FTL speed" is tricky.

Perhaps. But you seemed to have had extraneous items added along the line of the expanding universe consisting of "nothing", that speed wasn't restricted because "no-thing was in the way", and potentially other puzzling "nothingness" facilitated aspects I probably lack the desire to track down through the dense and rollicking seas of former page 13 (and beyond?)

I wonder what objects are being "pushed" away at FTL during the Inflationary period.

The associated particles of the inflaton field that Hertzberg was referring to would have been riding the "size of space" increases.

IMO, this is meaningless word-salad.

But false bravado, since Siegel elaborated in the next two sentences that's there's a better way of phrasing it (with the mathematics itself eventually looming at the end of such journeys through incrementally less inaccurate "everyday-speak" renderings).
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During the inflation period space enlarged in far less than a second -- the everyday language way of conceiving it as "FTL speed" is tricky.
But the question is not how short the inflationary epoch was, but how and why it was at all.
I really like to consider these types of scientific questions from the perspective of "hard facts" rather than "hard questions".
I understand the problem and if there was any doubt about the inflationary momentum however short, I believe it has been fairly accurately measured and there is overwhelming evidence at that instant a quantum event occurred, so powerful, that for an instant everything happened all at once at the same location and it was the instant of a mega-quantum event before universal time began.

Hard facts tell a rich evolutionary tale from creation to some knowledge of the quantum world and usually can rule out entire sets of alternate histories.

The tale of a toroidal universe is self-ordering and exhibits all the required "known" properties "sufficient" for both expanding and contracting spacetime geometrics and even galaxies and solar systems in endless loops.
It seems to have all the dynamic energy for a regular self-renewal on a universal scale.

A toroidal planet (earth!)
At sufficiently large enough scales, rigid matter such as the typical silicate-ferrous composition of rocky planets behaves fluidly, and satisfies the condition for evaluating the mechanics of toroidal self-gravitating fluid bodies in context.[2]
A rotating mass in the form of a torus allows an effective balance between the gravitational attraction and the force due to centrifugal acceleration, when the angular momentum is adequately large.
Ring-shaped masses without a relatively massive central nuclei in equilibrium have been analyzed in the past by Henri Poincaré (1885),[3]Frank W. Dyson (1892), and Sophie Kowalewsky (1885), wherein a condition is allowable for a toroidal rotating mass to be stable with respect to a displacement leading to another toroid.
Dyson (1893) investigated other types of distortions and found that the rotating toroidal mass is secularly stable against "fluted" and "twisted" displacements but can become unstable against beaded displacements in which the torus is thicker in some meridians but thinner in some others. In the simple model of parallel sections, beaded instability commences when the aspect ratio of major to minor radius exceeds 3.[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_planet

And that would also account for the occasional new universal BB emerging from (a condition outside our) knowledge? That'd be neat, no?
 
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Write4U:

Why did you only selectively reply to my previous post to you? Why did you ignore many of the questions I asked you - particularly the ones in which I asked you to clarify your position?

Were my questions too difficult for you? Or are you trying to avoid things?
So, are you advancing the concept that there was no beginning?
I'm not advocating any particular theory of the big bang.

The fact is: nobody knows what happened right at the start of the universe. Certainly nobody has any idea of what happened before $10^{-43}$ seconds after the "big bang", because our current physical theories can't cope with conditions that were present at that time.

There are many different hypotheses about the start of the universe. Nobody knows which of them is correct, if any. It is conceivable that there is a multiverse or that there isn't. It is conceivable that time started with the big bang, or it didn't. It is conceivable that there was something "before" the big bang, or there wasn't. It is conceivable that something caused the big bang, or that it was just a random occurrence. And so on and so forth.

I don't know the answers, so I don't pretend to know the answers. I say I don't know. Which, by the way, is the only rational position to take on this at present.
Does anyone have evidence other than logical reasoning?
Yes, there is lots of evidence for what happened in the early universe.

You seem to have missed my point, which was that your personal gut feelings don't count as evidence. Understand?
If not, then why are you singling me out ?
You'd rather I didn't reply to anything you post? Do you just want to blog by yourself? Why are you here?

If you come to a discussion forum, the assumption people will make is that you want a discussion. That involves "singling out" your posts, when people want to reply to you. Is this a new idea for you?
That is what I wrote, no? What's the problem?
I explained the problem in detail in my post, most of which you ignored. Why did you ignore it, Write4U?

Why didn't you work through the specific questions I put to you? If you had done that, you might understand what the problem is.
Do you believe science has all the answers, if not then we agree, no?
Try to keep up. I responded to this previously. You essentially accused me of believing that science has all the answers, in a previous post of yours. I told you that I had never said any such thing.

If you still haven't caught up: no, I don't believe science has all the answers. This is in contrast to your Tegmark religion, in which you seem to believe that your idol has all the answers.
See, you keep critiquing my posts for, but always end up agreeing with the actual content.
I thought I was pretty clear in my previous post. I have no idea why the message you would take away from what I wrote there was that I agree with your content. That sounds almost delusional to me.
And where are the constructive corrections? Is misquoting my posts and then calling them word-salad all you can do?
Where did I misquote you? Please be specific, or retract your accusation that I misquoted you.

You have not asked me for constructive corrections. It seems to me that you already think you have found all the answers you need. You don't seem interested in learning any science from me, or anything else for that matter.
You are not critiquing at all. You are criticizing without offering anything constructive... difference.
That is not true. I pointed to specific flaws and contradictions and gaps in what you wrote. The constructive advice I would give you is: think harder. Settle on a position that is not self-contradictory. Use accepted scientific terms in the way they are commonly understood - don't try to redefine the English language to suit yourself. Learn some actual science. Don't just invent your own pseudoscience using your own invented language.
 
Case in point:
The tale of a toroidal universe is self-ordering and exhibits all the required "known" properties "sufficient" for both expanding and contracting spacetime geometrics and even galaxies and solar systems in endless loops.
I don't for one second believe that you have any effective working understanding of what a "toroidal universe" might entail, or how such a thing might be usefully described. I think "toroidal universe", for you, is just another sciency-sounding buzz word that you can cut and paste at random into conversations, so you can pretend (and perhaps believe) that you're good at science.

Why not have a bit of humility, settle down and do some actual learning, instead? Why keep wasting time on your fantasy science?
It seems to have all the dynamic energy for a regular self-renewal on a universal scale.
Word salad. Dynamic energy. What a crock.
A toroidal planet
The fact that you can't tell the difference between a discussion about a hypothetical toroidal planet and a hypothetical toroidal universe shows that you can't even see first base on this particular topic, let alone reach it.

Why talk about stuff you don't understand at all, pretending that you do understand it? Why not be honest about what you don't know? Why not ask questions? Try to learn something.
And that would also account for the occasional new universal BB emerging from (a condition outside our) knowledge? That'd be neat, no?
You're in a fantasy world. Wake up.
 
I explained the problem in detail in my post, most of which you ignored. Why did you ignore it, Write4U?
Because I had no issue with your explanation. I have agreed with you on many things and I have made that known also.
in which you seem to believe that your idol has all the answers.
Nooo......, Tegmark himself admits to his own limitations. But the rest of his argument is both powerful and elegant in the abstract as well as in expressed reality.
He does not deserve anyone's derision for bringing a persuasive scientific argument to the world, especially because his posits are in the spirit of the early philosophers about "The Language of the Universe".
You're in a fantasy world. Wake up.

"A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s science for? (loosely based on Browning)

https://www.google.com/books/editio...ZStsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1&printsec=frontcover
 
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Because I had no issue with your explanation.
Great! So, just to be clear, you're agreeing with me on the following matters, which I asked you about:
  • You agree that you were in error about claiming that the universe is "expanding into" something.
  • You agree that the universe has not "outside" to expand into.
  • You agree that "riding the emerging fields?" is a nonsensical answer to the question "What did you mean by photons being transmitted FTL?"
  • You agree that you contradicted yourself in claiming, alternately, that nothing emerged from the permittive condition and that the permittive condition emerged from nothing.
  • You agree that I used no "bad logic" when I explained the meaning of the term "background independent" to you.
  • You agree that all your talk about "Nothing" and a "permittive condition" does nothing to explain how or why the universe started.
Let us move forward, then, on the basis that you have no issues with any of these things.

Is there something else you want to talk about?
 
I don’t think it’s either - science or a “religion.” It sounds like a fringe philosophy which anyone is allowed to have. Religion gives the impression of dogma, strict ways of thinking, etc…and this isn’t science because there’s no evidence to really back up the idea of “quantum creationism.”

I don’t think this thread belongs in the “Comparative Religion” section.
 
But the question is not how short the inflationary epoch was, but how and why it was at all. [...]

Cosmological inflation has an explanation for itself, but by its very nature bars access to any "history" that might be prior to it. Eternal inflation arguably remedies that in a way, but at the cost of generating universes forever (a multiverse). The latter is perhaps what the essence of this thread is about, though that's purely an "impression" on my part rather than from trying to earnestly glean a non-obtuse meaning from the first or original post.

Although proclamations that the "Big Bang is dead" or that "cosmology must be radically modified" are premature hyperbole, one nevertheless can't rule out that JWST data might be a terminal cancer for something, after the dust has finally settled years from now.

(Apr 13, 2023) James Webb Space Telescope images challenge theories of how universe evolved
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/985998

(Jan 30, 2023) No, the Big Bang theory is not 'broken' [by JWST]. Here's how we know.
https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-didnt-break-big-bang-explained
_
 
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Great! So, just to be clear, you're agreeing with me on the following matters, which I asked you about:
You agree that you were in error about claiming that the universe is "expanding into" something.
Yep, read my posts.
You agree that the universe has not "outside" to expand into.
Yep, read my posts.
You agree that "riding the emerging fields?" is a nonsensical answer to the question
Wha is on-sensical about it?
"What did you mean by photons being transmitted FTL?"
When there are no restrictive conditions, speed limits don't exist.
You agree that you contradicted yourself in claiming, alternately, that nothing emerged from the permittive condition and that the permittive condition emerged from nothing.
NO. You completely misread my posts. Read them again and think about what it is I am saying.
You agree that I used no "bad logic" when I explained the meaning of the term "background independent" to you.
Let's see. You wrote
"Background independent" means that the thing doesn't care about the background. Any background will do. It doesn't demand a background of "nothingness"; that doesn't even make sense as a concept.
I agree with your explanation of "background, except that you drew the wrong conclusion.
Independence from background includes independence from nothingness as a background. IOW, CDT is independent of all backgrounds. No one suggested that there needs to be a "demand" for anything. That is where your logic failed.
You agree that all your talk about "Nothing" and a "permittive condition" does nothing to explain how or why the universe started.
I am expected to explain how the universe started? If you know so much more than I do about the origin of the universe, why don't you tell me how the universe started.
Let us move forward, then, on the basis that you have no issues with any of these things.
Sure, I am not doing the complaining, you are.
Is there something else you want to talk about?
Do you?
 
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Write4U:
Wha is on-sensical about it?
There's no sense in which photons "ride emerging fieids". Fields aren't something that anything can ride.
When there are no restrictive conditions, speed limits don't exist.
When are there no restrictive conditions?
NO. You completely misread my posts. Read them again and think about what it is I am saying.
I don't need to read them again. If you're unable or unwilling to express yourself clearly, I'm not going to bother with it. Let's just forget that all that nonsense about permittive conditions and nothingness.

You know, the point of writing something on a public forum is usually to communicate something to other people. Worth thinking about, maybe.
Independence from background includes independence from nothingness as a background.
Nothingness is not a thing. Ergo, it is not a background.
IOW, CDT is independent of all backgrounds.
What are the main tenets of CDT? Please give me a brief outline of the theory, in your own words.
No one suggested that there needs to be a "demand" for anything. That is where your logic failed.
Clearly, you haven't followed the conversation. You've completely lost track of what you were trying to argue. Forget it. Waste of time.
I am expected to explain how the universe started?
Eh?

You were talking about nothingness and permittive conditions and inflationary theories. But none of that was you attempting to talk about how the universe started?

What were you trying to talk about, then?
If you know so much more than I do about the origin of the universe, why don't you tell me how the universe started.
Didn't you read my post #264? I already answered your question. Do me the courtesy of at least reading my responses, if you're going to engage with me.
Sure, I am not doing the complaining, you are.
I'm trying to get through to you that at lot of the content of your recent posts is nonsensical. Other people's words seem to have no effect on you. You just continue along with your three-track mind regardless of anything anybody tells you. Why is that?
Not with you. As usual, I'm regretting wasting more of my time of you. You seem to be in a sort of cosy fantasy bubble all of your own.

Snap out of it, man!
 
There's no sense in which photons "ride emerging fields". Fields aren't something that anything can ride.
David Bohm disagreed with you.
Quantum Physicists Catch a Pilot Wave
Experiments with bouncing oil droplets could change our understanding of quantum mechanics and the nature of reality.
BY JENNIFER OUELLETTE, WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 2014 THE NATURE OF REALITY
n October 1927, some of the greatest minds in physics gathered for the Fifth Solvay International Conference to debate the troubling implications of the then-nascent theory of quantum mechanics. A particularly contentious topic was the perplexing “wave-particle duality,” in which objects we typically think of as particles—like photons and electrons—exhibit wave-like properties as well, and things we think of as waves, like light, sometimes behave like particles.
The French physicist Louis de Broglie proposed a means by which a photon or electron could behave like both a particle and a wave, complementary aspects of the same phenomenon. He reasoned that the particles could be carried along by what he dubbed “pilot waves”—fluid-like ripples in space and time—much like a buoys bobbing along with the tide
droplet_620.width-990_F47A9JE.jpg

At the heart of the discomfort is the question of uncertainty. Flip a coin, and it will land either heads or tails; in principle, with complete information about the coin, the hand doing the flipping, and the movement of air molecules around the flip, it is possible to predict the outcome. In the quantum world, things hover in a fuzzy, nebulous cloud of probability called a wave function that encompasses all potential states, with no prospect of gaining further information. Flip a quantum coin, and it is both heads and tails until we look. Things become definite only when an observation forces them to settle on a specific outcome.
To Einstein, the notion of observation dictating the outcome of an experiment was ridiculous, since it denied the existence of a solid underlying reality. Even Schrödinger, inventor of the wave function, was deeply disturbed by the implications of what he’d helped create, memorably declaring, “I don’t like it, and I’m sorry I ever had anything to do with it.”
De Broglie’s alternative pilot wave theory was an attempt to restore that underlying solid reality. Instead of the wave function, de Broglie’s pilot wave theory employs two equations, one describing an actual wave and the other describing the path of an actual particle and how it interacts with, and is guided by, the wave equation. It is deterministic, like a classical coin flip. In principle, at least, we can glean sufficient information to plot a particle’s path, something that is not allowed in Bohr’s interpretation of quantum mechanics.
While the idea of pilot wave theory never really caught on, it stubbornly refused to die. A physicist named David Bohm proposed a modified version in the 1950s that also failed to gain much traction. But perhaps the pilot wave’s time has come at last.
more ...... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/quantum-physicists-catch-a-pilot-wave/[/quote][/quote]
 
I don't for one second believe that you have any effective working understanding of what a "toroidal universe" might entail, or how such a thing might be usefully described. I think "toroidal universe", for you, is just another sciency-sounding buzz word that you can cut and paste at random into conversations, so you can pretend (and perhaps believe) that you're good at science.
Really? And on what evidence do you assert that ad hominem? I could tell you what you are not very good at, but I wouldn't waste my time.
At sufficiently large enough scales, rigid matter such as the typical silicate-ferrous composition of rocky planets behaves fluidly, and satisfies the condition for evaluating the mechanics of toroidal self-gravitating fluid bodies in context.[2]

Do you think that the mathematics of a toroidal universe are different than the mathematics of the earth's magnetic field?
Geodynamo_Between_Reversals.gif

Computer simulation of Earth's field in a period of normal polarity between reversals.[1] The lines represent magnetic field lines, blue when the field points towards the center and yellow when away. The rotation axis of Earth is centered and vertical. The dense clusters of lines are within Earth's core.[2]
Earth's magnetic field, also known as the geomagnetic field, is the magnetic field that extends from Earth's interior out into space, where it interacts with the solar wind, a stream of charged particles emanating from the Sun. The magnetic field is generated by electric currents due to the motion of convection currents of a mixture of molten iron and nickel in Earth's outer core: these convection currents are caused by heat escaping from the core, a natural process called a geodynamo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field
 
James R said: Great! So, just to be clear, you're agreeing with me on the following matters, which I asked you about: You agree that you were in error about claiming that the universe is "expanding into" something.
W4U said: Yep, read my posts.
To be clear, I do not agree that I was in error. I never claimed the universe is expanding into nothing. Nothing is the absence of time and dimensions. Space does not expand into anything, it expands because there is nothing that prevents it from expanding, i.e. totally permittive (abstract) condition.
You agree that the universe has not "outside" to expand into?
Yep, read my posts.
You agree that "riding the emerging fields?" is a nonsensical answer to the question
What is non-sensical about what I wrote, not what you think I wrote?

To tell people they are wrong is not doing science.
The point is that you are not engaging and citing science at all, other than demeaning my efforts.

p.s. CC has produced more usable information in 10 posts than you have in 100.
 
About Toroidal guiding equations.
800px-Dynamo_Theory_-_Outer_core_convection_and_magnetic_field_generation.svg.png

The mechanism by which the Earth generates a magnetic field is known as a dynamo.[51] The magnetic field is generated by a feedback loop: current loops generate magnetic fields (Ampère's circuital law); a changing magnetic field generates an electric field (Faraday's law); and the electric and magnetic fields exert a force on the charges that are flowing in currents (the Lorentz force).[55] These effects can be combined in a partial differential equation for the magnetic field called the magnetic induction equation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field

Electromagnetic toroidal excitations in matter and free space

Abstract
The toroidal dipole is a localized electromagnetic excitation, distinct from the magnetic and electric dipoles. While the electric dipole can be understood as a pair of opposite charges and the magnetic dipole as a current loop, the toroidal dipole corresponds to currents flowing on the surface of a torus.
Toroidal dipoles provide physically significant contributions to the basic characteristics of matter including absorption, dispersion and optical activity.
Toroidal excitations also exist in free space as spatially and temporally localized electromagnetic pulses propagating at the speed of light and interacting with matter.
We review recent experimental observations of resonant toroidal dipole excitations in metamaterials and the discovery of anapoles, non-radiating charge-current configurations involving toroidal dipoles.
While certain fundamental and practical aspects of toroidal electrodynamics remain open for the moment, we envision that exploitation of toroidal excitations can have important implications for the fields of photonics, sensing, energy and information.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nmat4563

Isn't at this level that quantum operates, creates, maintains, and ultimately is expressed in the dense patterns of physical reality?
 
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Write4U:
David Bohm disagreed with you.
Not about photons "riding emerging fields", he didn't.
To be clear, I do not agree that I was in error.
Of course not. Whenever somebody posts substantive criticism of something you've written, you just claim that their correction agrees with what you wrote in the first place, even though the point of the correction was to make you aware of an error you made.
I never claimed the universe is expanding into nothing.
Don't tell lies, Write4U.

Post #253 (you): "Note , that outside the expanding universe is nothing. not even what we call vacuum."
Nothing is the absence of time and dimensions.
You use the word "nothing" as if it is something. Nothing is, literally, not a thing.

It follows that it is not possible for anything to "expand into" nothing, because "nothing" is not a thing. For something to be expanded into, there has to be a something in the first place.
Space does not expand into anything...
Better.
... it expands because there is nothing that prevents it from expanding
That's not an explanation of why the universe is expanding. It is merely a statement that the universe could expand. To say something more useful, you need to explain why it does expand.
i.e. totally permittive (abstract) condition.
Word salad.
To tell people they are wrong is not doing science.
Correct.
The point is that you are not engaging and citing science at all, other than demeaning my efforts.
I am certainly engaging. However, I notice that whenever I ask you a specific question about your claims, you either ignore them or you just cut-and-paste something random that mentions (in any context, relevant or not) whatever word seems most important to you at the moment.

I have given you information about science whenever you have asked me scientific questions. In general, I do not take the time for include formal citations when I am talking about well-accepted scientific principles and ideas. It should not be hard to find sources that will verify what I have said. If you think something I have told you is wrong, we can discuss that, with citations if necessary.

Mostly, though, you don't seem very interested in asking me questions or in learning stuff from me.
p.s. CC has produced more usable information in 10 posts than you have in 100.
I'm not going to downplay the relevance or usefulness of CC's contributions. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, for what it's worth.
---

By the way, it looks like you missed my helpful post #265, above, too.

There, I pointed out that toroidal planets have nothing to do with toroidal universes. Here I will add that toroidal magnetic fields have nothing to do with toroidal universes, either. Nor do toroidal circulations of magma in the Earth's mantle. Nor do "toroidal dipoles".

DaveC is correct. Mention the word "toroidal" and it sends you off on a mission to gather random cut-and-pastes from all over the internet. Any mention of the word is enough for you to cut and paste a random chunk and post it here, regardless of relevance to the discussion here. 95% of the time, those random cut-and-pastes are irrelevant as answers to the specific question (s) I asked you and/or they tell me something obvious that I already knew but did not ask you about - something that was never raised as a point of disagreement.

I think, actually, that the lack of any sort of relevance filter is probably why you're never able to post coherently on any scientific topic. Instead of learning something about an area of science and then discussing that, you're really more of a stamp collector or autograph hunter. The content or context of any article or web page doesn't seem to matter to you at all. As long as your google search throws up the site as using whatever buzzword triggered your search, you assume that the content must be relevant to whatever it was that you vaguely wanted to discuss.

Instead of running around the interwebs collecting examples of word usage, why don't you try to dig into the content once in a while, and try to learn some of the science? You could do that by identifying things in your readings that you don't understand, then following up on the those things. You could even try asking some questions, when you find yourself in the company of people who know something about the topics that are confusing you.

Of course, actually learning stuff requires focus and concentration, as well as patience (because good understanding doesn't always come quickly). Stamp collecting is easier, but at the end of the day all you have is your stamp collection; you don't have any actual use for it.
 
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Not about photons "riding emerging fields", he didn't.
Yes he did.
Bohm proposed that particles do not have duality and any resemblance to a wave function is due to the particle being guided (riding) the pilot wave. He is the one who solved the duality conundrum.

An Alternative Quantum Theory?
According to the orthodox interpretation of quantum mechanics, subatomic entities such as electrons or photons are either waves or particles — depending on how the physicist chooses to observe them. Actually, until they are observed, quantum entities have no real existence; they exist in a probabilistic limbo of many possible ‘superposed’ states.
This did not sit right with many scientists for the better half of the 20th Century. However, no physicist was more dedicated to these conundrums or worked harder to resolve them than David Bohm who spent 40 years promoting an alternative to the orthodox interpretation.
Bohm’s theory envisages a world of particles that all have definite momenta and positions, albeit the values of which are generally inaccessible. It is important to point out that the concept of momentum in Bohm’s theory is not straightforward. We will get to this in a bit. The fact that we can assign a value of mv to a particle is not directly related to what we would find if we performed a quantum mechanical measurement of momentum. The particles are deterministically “steered” or “guided” by a universal field which is described by the quantum wave function. It is sometimes said that Bohm’s view is a return to a classical picture of the world, embracing atomistic particularity and determinism. But it is also sometimes accepted that Bohm’s view offers a more complete description of reality.
In addition to the wavefunction, Bohm also postulates an actual configuration of particles that exist even when unobserved. The evolution over time of the configuration of all particles is defined by a guiding equation. The evolution of the wave function over time is given by the Schrödinger equation. Together, they come together to form the Bohmian interpretation.
1*fclVCucALa48pzNw92bn5A.png

The governing equation for Bohmian mechanics. In its non-relativistic form, the theory asserts the following: N material points (“particles”) move in 3-dimensional Euclidean space (denoted for simplicity as R³) in a way governed by a field-like entity that is mathematically given by a wave function ψ (as familiar from standard quantum mechanics). More precisely, the position Qk(t) of particle number k at time t obeys the above Bohm’s equation of motion. Where Q(t) = (Q1(t), . . . ,QN (t)) ∈ R³N denotes the configuration of the particle system at time t, mk is the mass of particle k, Im the imaginary part of a complex number, ψ is the wave function
more..... https://medium.com/quantaphy/an-alternative-quantum-interpretation-c31ce073e1a5#

This isn't old stuff, the matter is far from settled.
 
Don't tell lies, Write4U.

Post #253 (you): "Note , that outside the expanding universe is nothing. not even what we call vacuum."
Right, and I did NOT say that the universe is expanding into nothing.
Outside the Universe there is nothing. Yet the Universe is expanding, not into nothing but outward, creating space from nothing. And it was able to do so @ FTL, ending the BB, because the creation of space where there was none, was unobstructed and perfectly permitted without any restrictive mathematical values.

Here is where CDT proposes a fractal unfolding of the spacetime fabric (geometry). And a fractal Universe would answer the question of "irreducible complexity" and reduce it fundamentally to a simple causal function. Input --> Function --> Output, the biblical triune.
 
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