Purpose????

S

Scaperzrule

Registered Member
I was discussing with my friend the other day whether or not God exists (she is a Muslim). The crux of her argument seemed to be 'If God doesn't exist what is the point of your life'. Now I don’t believe that life has to have a meaning or higher purpose, but she was adamant. I couldn't get out of her what this 'point' was, but apparently it is important. Anyone able is shed some light?

(I'm not asking what the meaning of life is- that would be stupid, complicated and vary from person to person- just what is it that Islam, or indeed any other religion believe/teach)
 
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I always think that if all animals are equal then you should look at the animal that is furthest away from what you believe you are. So an ant for example. What is the purpose of an ant for us as humans, for the universe, or for a higher being. Do you think they have a god, or just someone in charge. Is their life purpose to survive, or to have fun. Who do they answer to? A God? The "king or queen" ant? For them, is there a purpose to life apart from to live it?

By asking myself questions about an animal like this, I can better understand the purpose of my life. I always consider the ant, and why they are in the world, before I consider myself, and why I am in the world.

I love all this shit. I could go on all day.

The Sox
 
soxisgod said:
I always think that if all animals are equal then you should look at the animal that is furthest away from what you believe you are. So an ant for example. What is the purpose of an ant for us as humans, for the universe, or for a higher being. Do you think they have a god, or just someone in charge. Is their life purpose to survive, or to have fun. Who do they answer to? A God? The "king or queen" ant? For them, is there a purpose to life apart from to live it?

By asking myself questions about an animal like this, I can better understand the purpose of my life. I always consider the ant, and why they are in the world, before I consider myself, and why I am in the world.

I love all this shit. I could go on all day.

The Sox
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You missed out on the Sixties - Far out man....... :D
 
Just because man lacks meaning to his existence does not mean that man can generate any fairy tale that fills that void. Religion dogma falls apart under logical srutiny. There are mysteries to life that man may one day find the answers or he may not.

I take the stance of an agnostic who believes the jury is still out on the meaning of not just our existence but the existence of the entire universe. Yes the search for meaning goes on for me but I'm not willing to settle for some ancient idiotic dogma just so I can feel good.

The existentialists go a step further by stating there's no meaning to life, one can only find meaning in his daily endeavours and assume personal responsibilty for acts of free will in the absence of absolutely knowing what's right or wrong.
 
To "believe" in something isn't wrong because it helps people get through life. What happens many times though is that the people who are very religious want everyone to believe in their way or else if you don't your not worthy of their friendship or even worse. I accept people for WHO they are not what they believe in. I try to avoid religious debates but hold my own when having to do so, I don't believe in God but do believe in myself.
 
Even if there was some answer to that question, it would still lead to another question. If the purpose of life was, for example, a journey to a non-material spirit realm like heaven, where everyone could live in happiness without death, then what is the purpose of that? What is the purpose of eternal happiness? I think the answer is evident, any purpose of life would justify itself. In other words, once found, the purpose would render the question irrelevant.

Perhaps the question of a purpose is only generated by the present structure of society. We have a pathological need for closure, as evidenced by apocalyptic myths. We have an intuition that history is leading to something, but conversly, Hindus stress that existence is cyclical and eternal. With such a worldview, the idea of a climactic purpose is silly and destructive. Could the purpose of life in general be different that the purpose of an individual life? What is the purpose of a cell compared to the purposes of the body? What are the purposes of the body compared to those of society?, the Earth, the galaxy?

It seems to me that the history of the universe shows a trend. From a very, very hot and simple state to an ever cooler and more complex state. Indeed this trend does seem to be speeding up. As the most complex life forms yet occuring, as measured by density of connectiveness in the cerebral cortex, humans are at the leading edge of this process. In physics, there is the principle of phase shifts. It may take a very long time for water to cool down, but once it hits the right temperature, ice can form almost instantly. I think such a thing is taking place, and the field is conciousness, or information. Never before have so many minds been connected by the internet. Never before has information been so rapidly accessable or rapidly processed. What will crystallize out of this is anybody's guess, but something novel is happening, don't take things for granted, just because everyone is pretending that its business as usual.
 
I was discussing with my friend the other day whether or not God exists (she is a Muslim). The crux of her argument seemed to be 'If God doesn't exist what is the point of your life'. Now I don’t believe that life has to have a meaning or higher purpose, but she was adamant. I couldn't get out of her what this 'point' was, but apparently it is important. Anyone able is shed some light?

(I'm not asking what the meaning of life is- that would be stupid, complicated and vary from person to person- just what is it that Islam, or indeed any other religion believe/teach)
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You'e friend is right, believing in a God and an afterlife, does create purpose, however, purpose can also be created by other beliefs and motivations. This purpose is only subjective, and something you fabricate. So Next time, tell your friend, just like he/she chooses to believe in God to create purpose, you believe in life, and life, is your purpose.

Objectively however, you're both wrong, it's completely meaningless.
 
Pehaps we are the purpose, blessed with complete freedom to engineer our own destiny. But how many people even live freely?
 
Scaperzrule said:
I was discussing with my friend the other day whether or not God exists (she is a Muslim). The crux of her argument seemed to be 'If God doesn't exist what is the point of your life'.
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point or purpose of life is obviously survival
even if gods existed it would still be the same.
 
Free will, is a really frail argument. Like any physical or non physical system in this universe, we are too governed by laws - the physical laws of the universe, the physical laws of our environment, the laws of evolution, the laws of society, the law of order, the laws of morals and ethics, the laws of our biology. There is no window open for free will.

In fact, I even argue, are our actions predetermined , like left-handed amino acids being selected by unblind chance, so that a desired result is produced, such as the next stage of evolution, the super intelligent social organism, or even the cybernetic organism.

We could just be cells, aggregating, so the next aggregate object appears.
 
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crazymikey said:
Free will, is a really frail argument. Like any physical or non physical system in this universe, we are too governed by laws - the physical laws of the universe, the physical laws of our environment, the laws of evolution, the laws of society, the law of order, the laws of morals and ethics, the laws of our biology. There is no window open for free will.

In fact, I even argue, are our actions predetermined , like left-handed amino acids being selected by unblind chance, so that a desired result is produced, such as the next stage of evolution, the super intelligent social organism, or even the cybernetic organism.

We could just be cells, aggregating, so the next aggregate object appears.
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You had the choise of posting the above or am I mistaken?
 
That's really trivial, Greco. My "choice", is modelled by the criteria of this topic, my social and intellectual conditioning, and my biological functioning at the time, amongst other things. I urge you to see the bigger picture. Subjectively, at face-value, we can accept everything: existence, good and evil, free will, purpose of life, God. Objectively, none of these abstractions matter.
 
We have free will in the way that we can reflect on the consequences of our actions and in doing so alter what we would otherwise have done. If we had a 'purpose', then we could not be free. The reason why having no meaning in life or higher purpose is so pleasurable is that we get to make it up ourselves. I would hate to be told by some creator that although I can comprehend other ways of living, I am required to do nothing in my life than, say, herd sheep. Purpose is enslavement.
 
Scaperzrule said:
I was discussing with my friend the other day whether or not God exists (she is a Muslim). The crux of her argument seemed to be 'If God doesn't exist what is the point of your life'. Now I don’t believe that life has to have a meaning or higher purpose, but she was adamant.
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I am curious if you asked (and what she answered)...
What is the point or purpose of her life?

If the purpose of her life directly relies upon a deity, that no one can be certain actually exists, then I would argue her life is pointless, but that would likely fall on deaf ears.

Is it to serve God? If God is omnipotent, he does not need servants.
Is it to obey God? That is not a purpose, it is simply rules to follow that "allow" you to not have to think for yourself and figure out what the point of life is.
Is it to praise God? What would a being such as God want or need with throngs of mindless obsessed fans here on Earth who praise him blindly?

How does God give her life a purpose?
 
Alaric said:
Purpose is enslavement.
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I don't think I can accept that life with a purpose is inherently enslaving.
I think it would all really depend on what specifically the purpose is.
 
It's fine if you have a choice to avoid or rebel from the initial purpose (like breeding!), but its sad if you need some life goal appointed by someone else to feel good. There are so many options out there, and the more, the merrier!

My 'goal' for humanity right now is to get as far as we can technologically - I want to see future generations colonising space and understanding to the full our own potential, and realising it.
 
Alaric said:
My 'goal' for humanity right now is to get as far as we can technologically - I want to see future generations colonising space and understanding to the full our own potential, and realising it.
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Funny.
My outlook couldn't be more opposing.
My 'goal' is exactly the opposite. :D
 
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