Proof of the existence of God through logic

[spacemanspiff]

Kenshi,

your argument of the existance of a god as a understand it is basicly this:

How and where we and this univserse came from is a difficult problem to solve. since i can't think of an explanation then i'm going to instert God as a magic bullet of sorts. the absence of a currenlty known explanation does not prove the existance of God. it mearly makes the God option one of the many possible explanations.

it's kind of like encontering a novel technology and being unable to explain how it works i assert that it is magic despite the fact that it could merely be that i just don't understand how it works. if that logic is correct then my TV is magic.

also absence of proof against god does not prove that God exist. just keep that in mind.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by Alpha
You missed his point. He's saying that these unknown things you're explaining with the theory of god can be explained without god, and there's no reason to believe god is the correct solution because there's no evidence.

And more. KenshiSoro foolishly believes that he "refutes" atheism by introducing us to his pathetically simplistic desription of agnosticism. In fact, there is absolutely nothing about agnosticism that prevents someone from being an atheist or, for that matter, a theist who bases that theism on faith alone.

 

[Q25]

Originally posted by KenshiSoro
Where did our universe come from?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it didn't come from anywhere,
by the looks of it,it always existed,
in one form/shape or another,
making up some imaginary allmighty skydady doesn't explain anything!

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

----------------- .............................B
l----------------l
l-------0-------l
l----------------l
l----------------l ...........A
-----------------

Allah would be there where 0 is .

Kenshi

you are subjective to your enviroment, you are mortal, your will is rarely accomplished in its entirety. This cannot describe God characteristics in you.

How am I subject to my environment , if my environment does not exist to me when I am not there to view it ? Bringing me to mortality ? First of all , I can be mortal and still be the superior creator , can I not ? Because what is mortal , it is dying in YOUR world , because after my death I am no longer in that world . And my will being accomplished , what is will ? Will is merely an emotional force , something I create myself . I can decide how much I want something if I can be fully conscious on what I am dealing with , how do u not know then when I dont accomplish something , I simply do not want it enough ? God characteristics go beyond that , I am combining ethics , aesthetics , epistemology and ontology , into 1 person , the person that has created epistemology , ontology , aesthetics and ethics . Good is what I create to be Good etc ......
Being God is merely reaching perfection , u can only coprehend as a perfect being .

you dont create what you see, you see what is created

I know I think , and there it ends . For all the rest I am perfectly capable of creating whatever I see to be whatever I want them to be , nothing needs to exist whatsoever .

You dont (in a sense) create your emotions (not of your own cognative will) but you see your emotions are subjective to your enviroment.

No u dont create emotions out of cognitive will , because will is emotion itself , only Allah can create conscious emotions , and thats the shit Im talking about . And my emotions being subjective to my environment , what about the my environment to be the subject of me ? I create each and every environmental aspect of whatever I experience as environment . Perhaps only Allah can see how empty the world really is .

If you disagree, then what would happen if your most beloved died today? you would be distraught. You create your own logic. But you dont create what is generally accepted as logic. You create physics (to a degree) but you are subjective to the laws of REAL physics. You see we are subjective to everthing. we are mortal.

If my most beloved died my emotions would take over , because I am not Allah to perfection . If I was , I would be conscious of my own creation of belovedism . And no I dont create what is generally accepted as logic , what is generally accepted as logic is simply that what is general logics , we all function the same way in certain aspect . If u ask me 1-1 my brain says 2 , while anothers brain does the same . Have u ever asked a duck ? Perhaps he simply doesnt agree with u and doesnt want to get into discussions . Real physics are as real as real ethics , real aesthetics , real mathematics , they are sciences created by and for Allah . It is only your idea that we are subjective , we are as far as we choose to be , and we choose within the boundries of our knowledge , whitch we decide for ourselves . Epistemology=Ontology=Ethics=Aesthetics

In a sense you are God of your destiny, but then again, fortune favors the few.

It is God who creates the concept of fortune , I might be fortunate with A while another is fortunant with B while I would kill people over B and he would kill people over A , its a relative to the subject , because it is the subject who creates the object : relativism .

If we created our own reality logic would tell us that we would have alot more freakish anomolies in our world. With as many psychopathic denizens of earth it can be safe to say that there should be a more twisted and altered reality. In fact, the laws of our physics shouldnt even be constant, because our human minds are never constant. Want to disprove me? Try to focus on one thought for more than 5 minutes before you attempt.

Not necesary we focus on the same thoughts a million times .
U go into more customs , peoples , etc , and Ull see your twisted and altered reality , although everywhere u will find the basic things that are human or even animal , but surely enough people think they can walk over water , and perhaps they do , perhaps u simply dont acknowledge it because u would do so urself and ud surely drown , as u believe .

And on scientology , Im sure if u would care abit u would find many similarities between the essence of dianteics and freuds teachings , interestingly how in my created world they are both equals , while perhaps in yours freuds the man and scientology's a joke . Allah knows best .

Hey........and we are to compare scientology with religion , religions kicks scientologic ass when it comes to ignorance

 

[(Q)]

How am I subject to my environment , if my environment does not exist to me when I am not there to view it ?

And when I close my eyes, the universe disappears.

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

Q

And when I close my eyes, the universe disappears.

If ur eyes are the only way u can perceive ur universe , Im seriously sorry for u .

 

[(Q)]

If u ask me 1-1 my brain says 2

Mine says zero.

So much for the Mathematics, Allah.

 

[SnakeLord]

I know I think , and there it ends . For all the rest I am perfectly capable of creating whatever I see to be whatever I want them to be , nothing needs to exist whatsoever .

Nothing needs to exist? Does that include allah? You did say whatsoever and then flaw your own statement by including all this allah assumption in the rest of your post.

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

Nothing needs to exist? Does that include allah? You did say whatsoever and then flaw your own statement by including all this allah assumption in the rest of your post.

Well indeed that was a flaw I did not mean to imply , I would like to correct it : Nothing needs to exist but Allah . Everything else exists just Allahs Image . As I said :

I know I think

This implies I exist .

My whatsoever was the error , you are right about that .

Is that all that I flawed ?

 

[SnakeLord]

Is that all that I flawed ?

No...

Nothing needs to exist but Allah

The flaw here comes from saying Allah needs to exist. A) There's no evidence to suggest 'need'. Answers have not been established to prove or even show substantial credibility to the existence or need of/for a higher being. B) If he does exist im sure he doesn't 'need' to do anything. If he 'needs', he too is flawed.

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

The flaw here comes from saying Allah needs to exist. A) There's no evidence to suggest 'need'

Sure Allah has to exist . If Allah does not exist , then how can I experience MY environment ? Do you understand that I and Allah are one and the same ? Without me NOTHING exists . Not to me , and I am all that matters since I am the only thing needed to think , and come up with this entire system of sciences and everything elese I use to prove existence of that what I create .
The evidence that suggests need , is Allah himself , I . If I do not exist , I do not exist .

Allah needs Allah to be Allah .

Answers have not been established to prove or even show substantial credibility to the existence or need of/for a higher being

There is no higher being than me in the world I create . Whatever seemingly superior creature I create , is not superieur because it is created by me , I am sure I can make it vanish as soon as I would become knowledged of the thing I create , existing is a mental issue , thats all Im saying . I made up value by creating myself as a living creature , then I made up value by creating myself as a thinking creature , becoming this thinking creature I again used my physical existence to create emotions that bring me to value certain things a certain way . I care this to be good and I care that to be beautifull , just as I cared me to breathe and think .

If he does exist im sure he doesn't 'need' to do anything. If he 'needs', he too is flawed.

Ofcourse he does , but not in the emotional concept you have of "need" . He must because he is the cause , he must not because somebody else tells him . He must in the context of a mathematical law , and that law is explained by the person starting this thread , if there is no 1 , there can be no 2 . Allah is 1 .

 

[SnakeLord]

Sure Allah has to exist . If Allah does not exist , then how can I experience MY environment ? Do you understand that I and Allah are one and the same ? Without me NOTHING exists . Not to me , and I am all that matters since I am the only thing needed to think , and come up with this entire system of sciences and everything elese I use to prove existence of that what I create .
The evidence that suggests need , is Allah himself , I . If I do not exist , I do not exist .

Allah needs Allah to be Allah .

Well this is all kinda boring but i'll keep on track with it for a second...

Allah does not exist. My mind created you, my mind created you to think allah existed. Your environment and even your ability to type here for me to see comes from my mind. My brain made you up. Isn't this discussion pointless? Btw there's no need to reply. My mind is going to create your response, and as such i already know what it's gonna be.

There is no higher being than me in the world I create . Whatever seemingly superior creature I create , is not superieur because it is created by me , I am sure I can make it vanish as soon as I would become knowledged of the thing I create , existing is a mental issue , thats all Im saying . I made up value by creating myself as a living creature , then I made up value by creating myself as a thinking creature , becoming this thinking creature I again used my physical existence to create emotions that bring me to value certain things a certain way . I care this to be good and I care that to be beautifull , just as I cared me to breathe and think

Yes, and i created you to say that. I know this because im here. I can prove to myself that im real in which case you must just be a creation of my mind. *Yawn*

Ofcourse he does , but not in the emotional concept you have of "need" . He must because he is the cause , he must not because somebody else tells him . He must in the context of a mathematical law , and that law is explained by the person starting this thread , if there is no 1 , there can be no 2 . Allah is 1

Of course there can be a 2 without a 1. Are we discussing mathematics? I don't think so. Trying to compare existence of god/universe etc etc to pre school maths is completely worthless. It's not a law- it's just you lack of understanding to the facts. We're all in the same boat, so dont feel ashamed. Of course if everything's just a creation of our own minds yada yada you can always have a 2 without a 1, you can do whatever you want.

Not to mention Allah is just a name borrowed from Sumerian, (Alla), who was a god of the netherworld. The Allah that came a long time after is just a translation error/metaphor etc etc etc

*Snore* *yawn*

 

[(Q)]

Sure Allah has to exist

Circular Reasoning Fallacy

If Allah does not exist , then how can I experience MY environment ?

Appeal to Consequences of Belief Fallacy

Do you understand that I and Allah are one and the same ?

Confusing Cause and Effect Fallacy

Without me NOTHING exists

Appeal to Consequences of Belief Fallacy

Not to me , and I am all that matters since I am the only thing needed to think , and come up with this entire system of sciences and everything elese I use to prove existence of that what I create .

Circular Reasoning Fallacy

The evidence that suggests need , is Allah himself , I .

False Dilemma Fallacy

If I do not exist , I do not exist .

Appeal to Ignorance Fallacy

Your entire argument is riddled with fallacies and provides little more than senseless ramblings and doublespeak.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

KenshiSoro

There were actually tons of flaws in your original 'proof' but I
wanted to point this one out in particular...

The only possible way for us to have existence is for existence to be put here by something eternal.

That's one limited scope of possibility you got there fella'... and
because you opine this it suddently becomes fact? puh-
leeeeassse.

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

Snake

Allah does not exist. My mind created you, my mind created you to think allah existed. Your environment and even your ability to type here for me to see comes from my mind. My brain made you up. Isn't this discussion pointless? Btw there's no need to reply. My mind is going to create your response, and as such i already know what it's gonna be.

Yes, and i created you to say that. I know this because im here. I can prove to myself that im real in which case you must just be a creation of my mind. *Yawn*

And how exactly are you refuting my point that I am Allah ? The only thing u prove is that your are Allah as well . But lets get beyond this paradox of imagination , lets bring things back for a moment . Is not possible that it is not I who create everything , but that you create everything as well , while when we are communicating we in a certain we agree on eachothers creation ?
And why is it so that just because I create something , that must mean that nothing is there automatically . U have no clue on what I create, neither do i have a clue on what U create . Yet we create the same as far language can help us agree on what we create .

Of course there can be a 2 without a 1. Are we discussing mathematics? I don't think so. Trying to compare existence of god/universe etc etc to pre school maths is completely worthless. It's not a law- it's just you lack of understanding to the facts. We're all in the same boat, so dont feel ashamed. Of course if everything's just a creation of our own minds yada yada you can always have a 2 without a 1, you can do whatever you want.

Do u not understand mathematics ? Ofcourse we are discussing matehmatics , we are always discussing mathematics , mathematics is always relevant because our minds created mathematics in order to coprehend what is created . And pre-school mathematics ? Hey man.....perhaps your algebra gets u anywhere when it comes to abstract and unexisting phenomena , as its that mathematics that has become a study of itself , almost an art . I am speaking of everyday mathematics , and hell yes I wish to compare mathematics to God and the universe , in mathematics lies the answer , perhaps u cant imagine it to be there because u have degraded mathematics t what is today , some insane number-game people who make it up dont even understand , most importantly , its meaningless . No If u would want to get into numerology and how that is relevant for the concept of God , u should wonder urself why Allah is 1 , always and ever , and go from there .....ull end up with understandings beyond what u even could imagine right now .

The facts i lack understanding is the facts u have made for actually no particular reason oither than simply accepting rules already established , perspectives already established , etc etc etc ......perhaps u should open ur mind for something new , because if we are honest and bring shit back to basics , we know SHIT . U know shit and I know shit , it just happens that I have assumed Allah to be the knower , thus as I wish to be Allah I need to know as well , yo man this whole concept is far more complicated than all the bull Im typing here btrying to figure out how shit worx .

Now back to 2-1 . If there is not 1 , how can there be 2 ? Im not saying the numbers 2 and 2 , sure theres 2 there 438348348 whatever u want , but if there is not one ITEM , u can never have 2 nor 3 nor 4 , because U would need 1 to start with . It doenst come any simpler than that .

Not to mention Allah is just a name borrowed from Sumerian, (Alla), who was a god of the netherworld. The Allah that came a long time after is just a translation error/metaphor etc etc etc

wtf is this netherworld ? Let me let u on on some shit , because u obviously dont know any shit on Arabic . Allah = AlifLamLamHah (ALLH) , it comes from the merge of Al-Illah (The God) , that is why Allah means theGod) . Now u speak of ALLA (AlifLamLamAlif) of Babylon not Sumer , who was within the 360 pantheon and considered the Moon God .

I have posted on this around here :
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20671

There I asked u where u got ur info on Akkadian Allah ? U didnt care to respond , but u do care to use the same argument ?

More at : http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11795&perpage=20&pagenumber=5
pg 5-6

But Im sure Im posting this for nothing cuz u aint gonna give a fuck anyhow .

Your entire argument is riddled with fallacies and provides little more than senseless ramblings and doublespeak

Now for my man Q .
Apologies for my lousy mixup between + and - Q

Now u bring in interesting arguments on logic , whitch is wonderfull . As much as I love logics , I dont consider all its fallacy conclusions always relevant . They have taken it way to far with logics if u ask me , and should consider reviewing some aspects , of whitch the whole fallacy list is included .

But first u must understand , that I am merely trying to gain a concept of Allah , as I am based at Nihilism . I have rejected ethics , I have rejected aesthetics , and I am questing ontology and epistemology , I am wondering wheither they do not follow the tradition of ethics and aesthetics and just die in front of my eyes . In this same way U must understand this Allah understanding comes from , I was trying to give ethics and aesthetics a certain meaning , and as I moved int the understanding of Allah , trying to unitfy everything , I bump into epistemology and ontology . So shit....i dunno man , Im just making shit up , if logics is all we go by , then we end up where I ended up a long time ago , skepticism from a nihilistic point of view . Logics doesnt know any facts either , it only knows premisses assumed to be true in order to deduct logically .

Now for the fallacies :

Sure Allah has to exist
Circular Reasoning Fallacy

I am Allah , do I not have to exist , in order to exist ? Yes this sounds circular , but it isnt . Allah is simply the perfect combination that allows me (as a physical creature) to exist , from the perspective of the mind .
Now another thing about the circular reasoning argument , I do think circular reasoning indeed is fallacious , but there is absolutely not one single theory that doesn not end up in a circular argument . All I have to say is why? , and we'll end up repeating ourselves , justifying an answer by mixing up chronologicality . If Allah does not need itself to exist , can it exist without itself ? Nothing can exist without itself . If Im dead , Im not gonna be existing . I need me to BE .

If Allah does not exist , then how can I experience MY environment ?
Appeal to Consequences of Belief Fallacy

No this has nothing to do with consequences of belief fallacy .
There is no necesarry positive nor negative effect that motivates me saying Allah needs to exist , there is a factual effect . The fact is that I experience my own environment (remeber it is ME who is Allah , the creator of my own universe) , u can say I dont ....but hey........I dont know who elese should be experiencing my environment other than me .

Do you understand that I and Allah are one and the same ?
Confusing Cause and Effect Fallacy

Not really , I am Allah and I cause myself to exist in a physical way . The cause is me being Allah , the effect is my physical existence . It is not my physical existence that is Allah , Allah is all my existences put together , trying to become more perfect in their own way (developing of perfection) , that is exactly what Allah is al about .

Confusing cause and effect would be USA bombing Iraq saying its because of terrorism

Without me NOTHING exists
Appeal to Consequences of Belief Fallacy

Nope . Again my existence is neither negative nor positive , If I do not exist I do not exists , if I do I do , no attachements . The attachement u think of is that things depend on me to exist . They do , TO ME . Not to you , you do not even need to exist .
The idea is that wheh I am not arround , MY environmenty goes along with me , not YOUR .

Not to me , and I am all that matters since I am the only thing needed to think , and come up with this entire system of sciences and everything elese I use to prove existence of that what I create .
Circular Reasoning Fallacy

No , same error u make all over . If it is not me that is needed to create MY thoughts , what do I need then to create my thoughts ? You ?

The evidence that suggests need , is Allah himself , I .
False Dilemma Fallacy

No , this is only so when the dilemma that is presented indeed consiuders false assumptions . Can u explain me how I would create a false dilemma when I state that I am needed for me to exist . If Im not there , how the fuck can I exist ? I dont present a dilemma , there simply is no other way . Are u implying I dont need myself to exist ?

If I do not exist , I do not exist .
Appeal to Ignorance Fallacy

How the hell did u come up with that fallacy ? R u trying to say that when I do not exist , I do exist ? perhaps we confuse the meaning of existence .

Hey Q .....u fail the logics immense , and again ........if u didnt , logics needs premisses in the end we know shit , Im just trying to be constructive instead of destructive . And usual when u destroy something , at leats leave something there in replacement . Dont just refute shit by leading to some fallacy without even explaining why it is fallacious , oh u probably thought it spoke for itself , well nothing speaks for itself , it is the creator (Allah) that gives all this bullshit some meaning .

 

[SnakeLord]

And how exactly are you refuting my point that I am Allah ?

Because it isn't your creation. It is the creation of someone thousands of years ago- you are simply standing on his head. You haven't created the world, me, or anything in it. You have observed what others have done and said and stolen that information and assigned it to your own doing. You can be Allah in your own little world, but the fact is he's part of someone elses creation- whether that be through factual historical truths or just the dreams of some other dude who had a similar way of thinking to you.

Do u not understand mathematics ?

Adequately.

ow back to 2-1 . If there is not 1 , how can there be 2 ? Im not saying the numbers 2 and 2 , sure theres 2 there 438348348 whatever u want , but if there is not one ITEM , u can never have 2 nor 3 nor 4 , because U would need 1 to start with . It doenst come any simpler than that

You say this with the limited human mind. We're humans- you can't solve the answers to the cosmos by saying 1+1=2.

I will show an example from your perspective:

"If G=Z+Y-N*H squared / B+R cubed, what is P?"

"I don't know the answer so it must be god."

Im sorry but that's completely worthless and in no way resembles what mathematics is. It's answering any mathematical formula with the same answer: 1+1=2, 37*100=2, 9/1=2. And you ask me if i understand maths? I understand that you must find the real answer instead of assigning any value in place of it.

From your perspective 1+1=2 but that doesn't mean the entire universe shares that same concept- it's just your human minds understanding of it.

But tell me..... if Allah is 1 and there must be a 1, what's to say the universe itself isn't 1? Why must it be an all powerful being? That is assigning random answers to mathematical equations without studying mathematics first.

Does the universe end? How can it not end, everything ends? Tell me, when it ends whats outside of it? Nothing? Hell even nothing is something right?

Answer=45.

Pointless. We do not know the answer thus we can sit here all day saying 1+1=2 but it means bugger all. Wouldn't it be more noble to just admit you don't know the answer instead of taking wild stabs in the dark? It sucks, i agree, but we don't know the answers.

wtf is this netherworld ? Let me let u on on some shit , because u obviously dont know any shit on Arabic . Allah = AlifLamLamHah (ALLH) , it comes from the merge of Al-Illah (The God) , that is why Allah means theGod) . Now u speak of ALLA (AlifLamLamAlif) of Babylon not Sumer , who was within the 360 pantheon and considered the Moon God .

Oh, now im speaking of Alla of Babylon? Aha, and ummm where did Babylonians take their beliefs from? That's right- the Sumerians.

Netherworld= The world of the dead. The Babylonians attributed the belief to the moon as it was a dead planet.

There I asked u where u got ur info on Akkadian Allah ? U didnt care to respond , but u do care to use the same argument ?

Samuel Noah Kramer. You can search up on what he does, or buy his books or go search for yourself.

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

Because it isn't your creation. It is the creation of someone thousands of years ago- you are simply standing on his head. You haven't created the world, me, or anything in it. You have observed what others have done and said and stolen that information and assigned it to your own doing. You can be Allah in your own little world, but the fact is he's part of someone elses creation- whether that be through factual historical truths or just the dreams of some other dude who had a similar way of thinking to you.

Just as I cant prove to you that everything that exists exists because of me , U cant prove to me everything here exists independant of anybody . I do not claim that your world will not exist when Im not here , I claim mine wont . The dilemma is weither you and I are actually perceiving some independant phenomena , or weither you and I agree on the phenoma we see , while there might never be any phenomena to begin with .
Both cant be proven , yours is simply more reasonable , but again thats only because our assumprion is that we are not all powerfull , while perhaps we are and simply dont know it .
Now my little world it may be , so is it yours , u can by no possible way independantly enter into my little world and change anything , only I can do so . And thats why u cant prove that what you believe to be reality as in objective and independant , is nothing but your own creation .
But in the end we both dont know , and your theory I already was aware of and its dead-ending , while this still has to be explored .

You say this with the limited human mind. We're humans- you can't solve the answers to the cosmos by saying 1+1=2.

I will show an example from your perspective:

"If G=Z+Y-N*H squared / B+R cubed, what is P?"

"I don't know the answer so it must be god."

lol , No thats not my quite my perspective . But if I look at it more carefully , does It not make me aware of the fact that about absolutely anything on this planet is being answered with : I dont know thus it must be X . Be it God , or Science , or whatever . Its all based several premisses that cant be proven .

Im sorry but that's completely worthless and in no way resembles what mathematics is. It's answering any mathematical formula with the same answer: 1+1=2, 37*100=2, 9/1=2. And you ask me if i understand maths? I understand that you must find the real answer instead of assigning any value in place of it.

From your perspective 1+1=2 but that doesn't mean the entire universe shares that same concept- it's just your human minds understanding of it.

Thats the whole shit , U presume the universe is some independant thing that can share some concept , while my human mind only understands it . Can it not be that my mind created the whole goddamn thing ?
And back to 1,2,3 : There is no way in hell that something can be multiple before it has been singular , or without being singular , thats what Im talking about . Now u can say , thats just because my logics dont allow other division between things , other relations , I say its because my mind created these whole concepts to begin with why it cant coprehend possibly others , it hasnt created others..........yet .

But tell me..... if Allah is 1 and there must be a 1, what's to say the universe itself isn't 1? Why must it be an all powerful being? That is assigning random answers to mathematical equations without studying mathematics first.

Because it has no life . It depends on how you approach it . As I posted in the beginning , as far as God goes beside me being God concept , I could see anything superior as a force , similar to the Tao , and in that sense hell yes the universe is 1 . But as I studied religions I couldnt but get over the fact these people make God as if he almost is wearing actual clothing and plays baseball n shit....so human . Knowing ethics and aesthetics to be hilarious bullshit , I tried to understand this concept of God (perfection) , in the way that it is God that creates what I find good/bad , beauty/ugly . In that sense I have already reached the point where I can call myself Allah in the ethical sense , because it is I who imagine and create , fully conscious if I wish , exactly what i call good or bad , and why . As this is possible , I can be God . But all this relates to the superior being thing , it has little to do with actually creating the universe by thinking of it , and thats what im trying to figure out , Can I combine what i already know about ethics & aesthetics with ontology and epistemology , through these ancient scriptures that have brought mass hysteria to the world . U must at least respect my attempt to bring some logic into these theologic theories people have nowadays (and yesterday as well) .

Does the universe end? How can it not end, everything ends? Tell me, when it ends whats outside of it? Nothing? Hell even nothing is something right?

Why should everything end , simply because YOU end ? And thats the mortality question , I could add something . I believe it was who mentioned we are mortals . What if we are not mortal at all , we absolutely know shit what happens after death , and we dont even know shit whats going on while we're alive . What if there is some way of mentally understanding some concepts , whitch could create infinity into our being , thus we dont ever die . Just cuz we didnt find it doesnt mean it isnt there , or better yet , just because didnt create it yet doesnt mean it cant exist .

Answer=45.

What if its 1 ? I mean u can joke around about it , but U and I both know shit , and I can give u at least a reasn for why its 1 .

It sucks, i agree, but we don't know the answers.

No we dont , but I wish to find out .

Oh, now im speaking of Alla of Babylon? Aha, and ummm where did Babylonians take their beliefs from? That's right- the Sumerians.
Netherworld= The world of the dead. The Babylonians attributed the belief to the moon as it was a dead planet.

Fair enough......still irellevant for the point I was making , whitch was the refutement of the point u were making . Allah doesnt come from the Babylonian Alla .

Samuel Noah Kramer. You can search up on what he does, or buy his books or go search for yourself.

Thank you I will .

 

[SnakeLord]

Why should everything end , simply because YOU end ?

And back to 1,2,3 : There is no way in hell that something can be multiple before it has been singular , or without being singular , thats what Im talking about

Why should everything start from 1? Simply because YOUR understanding of human maths makes the same applicable to everything we both agree we do not know or understand?

As we can clearly see this is just a discussion based on pure speculation. There's nothing to suggest credibility to any of it. As such there's no reason there would have to be a 1 to create 2, it seems logical to us but is just a human assumption.

Fair enough......still irellevant for the point I was making , whitch was the refutement of the point u were making . Allah doesnt come from the Babylonian Alla

It comes from Sumerian.

What if its 1 ? I mean u can joke around about it , but U and I both know shit , and I can give u at least a reasn for why its 1

What reason? Because humans can't get to 2 without having a 1? Human ability does not neccesarily apply to everything.

 

[Allahs_Mathematics]

Why should everything start from 1? Simply because YOUR understanding of human maths makes the same applicable to everything we both agree we do not know or understand?

This argument goes for absolutely everything ever on this planet as long as it deals with humans . I say this text u read right here write itself . It does , U just cant coprehend it , and neither can I , I type it , and I know its their because of me , but thats only because I assume whenever I type it gets on the screen , and I also assume this is being confirmed by looking at my srceen and actually seeing the cause-effect , still I dont know , could be all coincidence and these letters write themselves .

As we can clearly see this is just a discussion based on pure speculation. There's nothing to suggest credibility to any of it. As such there's no reason there would have to be a 1 to create 2, it seems logical to us but is just a human assumption.

It is , but again , everything is based on the arguments u are giving me . Im not saying i dont agree with u , Im just saying U shoudl not apply them only to thosae thngs science doesnt deal with , science is just as speculative as everything else .

It comes from Sumerian.

lol , Babyl , Sumer , it doesnt matter its all good . Alif Lam Lam Hah comes from Al-Illah meaning the God , not from the Moon God . Alla was a name like Hubal , Al Illah (The God) came with Islam .

That was the point I made to refute the point U made , whitch was Allah comes from Alla .

What reason? Because humans can't get to 2 without having a 1? Human ability does not neccesarily apply to everything.

Doesnt this make u think how extremelly dependable everything (even seemingly universal mathematical concepts) is on the human that imagines it ?
Human ability does not need to apply to anything , but it applies to us , we , the people who are experiencing all this shit .
For all we know there are millions of planets like the earth , perhaps even cloned copies , but we wont ever know of them , doesnt this make u think we only know what we create ourselves ? And when we only know what we create ourselves , are we not God ? Do we done create everything around us , so that we may know it ?

 

[SnakeLord]

This argument goes for absolutely everything ever on this planet as long as it deals with humans

Pretty much yes. Anything that is beyond our current level of understanding. However many don't just say "We dont know the answer so it must be god, feather triceratops, the cosmic space monkey etc"- it's assigning an answer without studying the questions.

Some things though are absolute. For instance eating. From the very second of birth mankind intakes food via the mouth. We do not ingest food by tucking it up our bottoms, that's a fact. That is undeniable. We can argue why and how we instantly know to use our mouths. One is truth the other is speculation. If i then said every other creature in the universe eats the same way we do that too is groundless speculation. Just because mankind and the creatures that inhabit this planet do, doesn't mean it's the same everywhere, if there is other life out there... Same ending: There's no reason to assume you can't have 2 without 1. For humans- yes, for the universe- Who's to say?

It is , but again , everything is based on the arguments u are giving me . Im not saying i dont agree with u , Im just saying U shoudl not apply them only to thosae thngs science doesnt deal with , science is just as speculative as everything else

And science accepts that it's speculation and works to find the truth. Religion says it has the truth- thus it gives up the search. There was a time when medicine was 'new' to man. They made wild potions out of any shit they could find, probably killing many people in the process. Now in 2003 i know when i have a headache i should buy some paracetamol. Science advances, religion does not- namely because religion has found it's truth- where's it going to advance to? Science is aware things are speculation until they are proven to work. Imagine a calculator being speculation- the idea of it does not help you solve maths problems. Once the speculation leads to study and research it ends up giving us calculators. They work, they can be tried and tested and cannot be disputed.

lol , Babyl , Sumer , it doesnt matter its all good . Alif Lam Lam Hah comes from Al-Illah meaning the God , not from the Moon God . Alla was a name like Hubal , Al Illah (The God) came with Islam .

That was the point I made to refute the point U made , whitch was Allah comes from Alla .

By the same as i was asked: Tell me where this version of information comes from please.

For all we know there are millions of planets like the earth , perhaps even cloned copies , but we wont ever know of them , doesnt this make u think we only know what we create ourselves ? And when we only know what we create ourselves , are we not God ? Do we done create everything around us , so that we may know it ?

Yeah, we're god- our brains are. Still no need to summize a big invisible space dood as being fact.