Proof of Heaven

[Spellbound]

It is just fine if you believe in God and he gives you comfort or whatever, but the thread is about evidence and you have given no credible evidence of heaven, God or the supernatural. Don't feel bad though, no one has.

I have been in the walking around it the dark many times and I have never seen God that I recall.
One time a friend and I decided to climb a mountain on the Olympic Peninsula and the time got away from us. We got trapped in the dark on our return and it was so dark that we had the walk for the last half hour in a stream because our base camp was by the stream and there was no way we stay on the trail in the dark. Didn't see God at all, I did 'see the light' and I NEVER go anywhere in the wilderness without a day pack with food, water, a space blanket and a damn flashlight!

I probably should have mentioned that I smelled the foul stench of demons around me and I defeated them with fearless acts of ninjitsu. While in the dark. So there's dark in the absence of evil and dark in the presence of evil.

 

[Spellbound]

This is no proof. It might as well be a sign of mental disorder, drug abuse or just an illusion. A proof needs more than a single man telling some words.

See, with the same approach I can come in and say I have disproven gods existence. Also disproven heaven. Then my word stands against yours, and neither of us has something to back the words - i.e. to give outsiders, which do not share our personal experiences, something to gain trust in our words, beyond the way we speak and argue.

So please, don't call a single-person experience that no one else can share a proof. It isn't. It might be a hint, an indication, that there is something unusual going, but the conclusion "this must be god and heaven", is not the only valid explanation.

It would be nice if someone had proof of God and Heaven. Oh wait! There already is! Look up CTMU.

 

[timojin]

timojin:




You shouldn't believe in the big bang just because I, or anybody else, tells you it is real. You should ask questions like: how do we know the big bang happened? What objective evidence is there that supports the idea of a big bang? Investigate for yourself. Don't put your trust in me. James R is just this guy, you know?

You should try doing the same thing with your belief in God. Investigate. Don't just trust in what somebody told you.

Stars are build they collapse they get combined and the cycle go on and on . That is what the astronomer tell us based on the available equipment . Beside literature tells us that our telescope have limitation on how far can we see. So tell me , how far can you push , then project me your information as true evidence.?
As my belief in God . I have examined more then once and twice . and I have questioned my self. Man does not have any knowledge on how life started. but I am here and we in chemistry don't know how to make life, except to continue what was made and observe changes taking place.
My spiritual experience I am not going to share with nonbelievers because they won't believe

 

[origin]

I probably should have mentioned that I smelled the foul stench of demons around me and I defeated them with fearless acts of ninjitsu. While in the dark. So there's dark in the absence of evil and dark in the presence of evil.

Are you joking?

 

[origin]

Stars are build they collapse they get combined and the cycle go on and on . That is what the astronomer tell us based on the available equipment . Beside literature tells us that our telescope have limitation on how far can we see. So tell me , how far can you push , then project me your information as true evidence.?
As my belief in God . I have examined more then once and twice . and I have questioned my self. Man does not have any knowledge on how life started. but I am here and we in chemistry don't know how to make life, except to continue what was made and observe changes taking place.

Just because we do not know everthing that does not mean that we know nothing.

 

[origin]

It would be nice if someone had proof of God and Heaven. Oh wait! There already is! Look up CTMU.

That is not proof or even evidence.

 

[Yazata]

There is proof of heaven among other kinds of proofs. I have verified the existence of God long after (since 2012) witnessing his manifestation in various forms (right before my eyes). Heaven's verification only came recently however. It simply stood to reason. I have also witnessed and felt the presence of various kinds of spirit all the way up to merging with Christ himself (the Son of Man) temporarily on New Year's morning 2016.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you did have an unusual experience. What convinces you that the experience had anything to do with God, heaven and Christ? (Could you recognize any of those things if you saw them?) Isn't it more likely that the experience was caused by psychiatric problems? Many people report hearing voices in their walls, but that doesn't mean that there are spirits in their walls speaking to them. In other words, why should any of the rest of us believe that what you experienced was objective rather than subjective?

Such entities are composed of another kind of particle altogether and have a deeper connection to the manifestation of thought yet are still as real as you and I. They come from the world of Mind and are not imaginary in any way, shape or form.

Then presumably your hallucinations and delusions exist in the objective world and will be perceivable by other people. So go to the University of Toronto's physics building and dim the ambient lighting with your mind, the way you say you can. Go to their religious studies department and make God appear at your command or conjure up a demon. You already know that you can't do that, don't you? Your weirder experiences just happen to you privately when you are alone, where you can convince yourself that things have happened that really haven't, right?

You can test this for yourself. I used to roam around in the pitch black darkness of my basement quite a bit where I've seen and felt things that were not there after turning on the lights. They came from the world of Mind. It is not a delusion. It is the world of Mind.

In other words you imagine things.

Or rather, the world of Reality.

And then convince yourself that whatever you imagine is more real than the world around you that everyone else experiences in common.

As you may recall in A Being That Syntactically Self-Distributes Itself I merged with God a number of times while still living at home in my bedroom, where the sun's light exhibited the distinct characteristic of self-awareness. I will provide you with a more satisfactory argument as we go along.

You haven't provided any argument so far. You just relate fantastical experiences unique and private to you and then jump to equally fantastical conclusions about the nature of what you experienced and what you think the experiences's meaning was. None of it has any logical continuity. You never begin with premises everyone can accept and then argue plausibly and persuasively for your conclusions. Your thought-process looks more like free-association to me.

 

[Sarkus]

Are you joking?

I honestly don't think he is.

 

[sideshowbob]

As my belief in God . I have examined more then once and twice . and I have questioned my self.

It isn't enough to question yourself. You have to be able to demonstrate to others that your conclusions are valid.

 

[Spellbound]

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you did have an unusual experience. What convinces you that the experience had anything to do with God, heaven and Christ? (Could you recognize any of those things if you saw them?) Isn't it more likely that the experience was caused by psychiatric problems? Many people report hearing voices in their walls, but that doesn't mean that there are spirits in their walls speaking to them. In other words, why should any of the rest of us believe that what you experienced was objective rather than subjective?

Because you can read what I wrote.

Then presumably your hallucinations and delusions exist in the objective world and will be perceivable by other people. So go to the University of Toronto's physics building and dim the ambient lighting with your mind, the way you say you can. Go to their religious studies department and make God appear at your command or conjure up a demon.

I already see evidence for God all over the place. I don't need to test God because I fear God. I wouldn't even lift a finger to prove myself to anyone else. I no longer live in the Classical world btw Yazata. I'm well into the Quantum existence. And it's wonderful. No longer do I have to delude myself and make assumptions about what's going to happen next. Within the Quantum world, nothing is random. It's Entanglement, superposition, instantaneous communication between minds except blown up to what appears as a Classical overlay.

You already know that you can't do that, don't you? Your weirder experiences just happen to you privately when you are alone, where you can convince yourself that things have happened that really haven't, right?

No. It was objective empirical. Recall that I wrote "right before my eyes" in the OP. I did not say "right within my imagination".

In other words you imagine things.

If this is supposed to be a pick up line it falls short of supporting evidence.

And then convince yourself that whatever you imagine is more real than the world around you that everyone else experiences in common.

You haven't provided any argument so far. You just relate fantastical experiences unique and private to you and then jump to equally fantastical conclusions about the nature of what you experienced and what you think the experiences's meaning was. None of it has any logical continuity. You never begin with premises everyone can accept and then argue plausibly and persuasively for your conclusions. Your thought-process looks more like free-association to me.

You can bet I will provide stronger support for my arguments in the next few weeks.

 

[Spellbound]

I honestly don't think he is.

Correct.

 

[origin]

Correct.

If you seriously think that you are fighting with physical demons, you should discuss this with a health professional if you are not already under the care of one.
Good luck.

 

[sweetpea]

In other words you imagine things.

If this is supposed to be a pick up line it falls short of supporting evidence..

The supporting evidence are your posts.

 

[Daecon]

I probably should have mentioned that I smelled the foul stench of demons around me and I defeated them with fearless acts of ninjitsu. While in the dark. So there's dark in the absence of evil and dark in the presence of evil.

Fundies say the darndest things.

 

[Spellbound]

Fundies say the darndest things.

They sure do.

*rubs hand under nose and sniffs*

 

[sweetpea]

I probably should have mentioned that I smelled the foul stench of demons around me and I defeated them with fearless acts of ninjitsu. While in the dark. So there's dark in the absence of evil and dark in the presence of evil.

This ninjitsu thingy in the dark, has it anything to do with you having sock puppets on these forums?
Do you see the forum's science sections as " the dark"? Who are these demons?
Hong Kong Phooey

 

[Yazata]

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you did have an unusual experience. What convinces you that the experience had anything to do with God, heaven and Christ? (Could you recognize any of those things if you saw them?) Isn't it more likely that the experience was caused by psychiatric problems? Many people report hearing voices in their walls, but that doesn't mean that there are spirits in their walls speaking to them. In other words, why should any of the rest of us believe that what you experienced was objective rather than subjective?

Because you can read what I wrote.

Are you suggesting that I should just accept you as my spiritual/philosophical authority and believe everything you say?

If you ever hope to convince the rest of the world that you experienced something real and aren't just experiencing hallucinations, you need to be able to provide people with some convincing reason to think that what you experienced wasn't just confined to your own personal experience. Why not just show other people the things you believe that you see?

You already know that you can't do that, don't you? Your weirder experiences just happen to you privately when you are alone, where you can convince yourself that things have happened that really haven't, right?

I already see evidence for God all over the place. I don't need to test God because I fear God.

It's isn't about testing God. It's about testing you. It's about whether your experiences are experiences of something real or whether they are just your own personal imagination, hallucinations and delusions.

I wouldn't even lift a finger to prove myself to anyone else.

Yet you write as if you somehow possess all the secrets of the universe and expect the rest of us to accept whatever you say as authoritative. You certainly seem to care about what other people think or else you wouldn't have been preaching incessantly on Sciforums for ten years.

I no longer live in the Classical world btw Yazata. I'm well into the Quantum existence. And it's wonderful. No longer do I have to delude myself and make assumptions about what's going to happen next. Within the Quantum world, nothing is random. It's Entanglement, superposition, instantaneous communication between minds except blown up to what appears as a Classical overlay.

Why is it than whenever the word "quantum" slips into conversation, the probability skyrockets that whatever people are saying is utter bullshit?

I used to roam around in the pitch black darkness of my basement quite a bit where I've seen and felt things that were not there after turning on the light. They were from the world of Mind.

In other words you imagine things.

If this is supposed to be a pick up line it falls short of supporting evidence.

You essentially said it yourself.

And then you convince yourself that whatever you imagine is more real than the world around you that everyone else experiences in common.

It is not a delusion. It is the world of Mind.

So you have convinced yourself that your subjective imagination, the things that only you experience, is a manifestation of the fundamentally real "quantum world", the "world of Mind", while the annoying objective world that other people experience along with you is merely the lesser and ultimately illusory "classical" world?

I fear that identifying physics' classical/quantum distinction with psychology's objective/subjective distinction is intellectually unjustifiable and could too easily serve as a license for believing in the truth of anything and as a rationalization for the symptoms of psychiatric illness.

 

[James R]

Spellbound:

You did not reply to this:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/proof-of-heaven.155237/#post-3358517

 

[kx000]

It's love, faith, and the wish to be singularity. You can but your not perfect. If God were Love how would Know and Faith be.

 

[ajanta]

I think there are many kind of problem to proof something. As like

1) May be you can't proof the Theory of relativity to ant.

2) I can't proof God, heaven, spirits, Ghosts. Because I have not enough knowledge about it.