M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Oh, I'm sorry d. There was me thinking we both know your out of answers and floundering. Tsk! Silly me... 
professional skeptics group proves UFOs real
- Thread starter duendy
- Start date
- Status
no, i'm just amazed where you skeptics keep getting your hogenized theories rom which pertain to explain away ALL reports of 'anomalies'....'weird events that cant be explained?'...oh, Shaver did it....Mr Anonymous said:Oh, I'm sorry d. There was me thinking we both know your out of answers and floundering. Tsk! Silly me...
kind of thinghey. you have found THE ANSWER. write a book and make yer million. we can all go home now
ahhhhhhhhhhh
Ok so back on the topic of Billy Meier.
Two more photos I found in another forum.
There seem to be a lot of photos where the object is leaning (or attached) to a tree. The tree here is possibly quite small. See the size of the grass.
This one is so stupid I can't believe it would be taken seriously.
The Billy Meier website mentions that there were over a thousand taken but only shows a select few. If anyone finds the rest of them please post the link.
Two more photos I found in another forum.
There seem to be a lot of photos where the object is leaning (or attached) to a tree. The tree here is possibly quite small. See the size of the grass.
This one is so stupid I can't believe it would be taken seriously.
The Billy Meier website mentions that there were over a thousand taken but only shows a select few. If anyone finds the rest of them please post the link.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Well, indeed Shaman. Kind of where I was going anyway, but you're timing here couldn't have been more apt. Well interjected, many thanks.
Yes, Billy Meier....
d - you began this topic with a very definite assertion gleaned from the specific website you linked to - quoting something to the effect that -
"The professional skeptics of te Meirs case have concocted all sorts of fanciful notions and theories as to how he hoaxed te evidence. But when challenged to prove their claims they repeatedly replied thqt it was not their job to attempt to duplicate evidence, although conducting temselves according to the scientific method would require it.... "
Clearly the author of which maintains the position that there remains nothing either untoward or else in anyway suspect regarding Meier's photographs - and yet, even casual scrutiny of the actual photographs themselves clearly demonstrates Meier's own technical expertise when it comes to producing obviously quite crude fanciful images leave a very great deal to be desired.
As photographic images go they remain neither terribly plausible or particularly well accomplished - some work better than others, but the point remains Meier himself maintains throughout that all of his photographs depict actual space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - all of them. The good, the bad, the crashingly awful. These are all, if Meier is to be believed, UFO's here visiting earth and clearly very much of most of what Meier offers for scrutiny are actually no such thing of any sort.
Yet the gentleman in your quote eludes to no such recognition of any observation of the kind - and still you feel compelled to ask me:
These "anomalies" as you care to put them simply don't exist as reality, only in peoples belief. You're opening quote serves as the perfect example of this - the gentleman writing it alludes something otherwise extraordinary and inexplicable is being demonstrated by the "evidence" provided by Billy Meier and that it remains incumbent upon the rest of us to prove him wrong - yet, clearly, with regard to the material the gentleman is referencing nothing in the slightest "inexplicable" is being presented in the first place -
And it is this continuous ongoing process of first a someone maintaining that a "mystery" exists and b providing something spurious and not terribly plausible by way of "evidence" to support it that by in large very much does compromise the entire spectrum of ideas and notions UFO Belief occupies itself with hashing and re-hashing year after year after year - with not the slightest bit of forward headway to show for it.
In the intervening years between 1947 and the present day mankind has harnessed atomic power, developed the revolution in electronics and microprocessing, put men on the moon and has looked into space far enough to actually take photographs of literally the very dawn of time. The individual can now communicate globally to a considerable audience without need for vast wealth or great technical skill. Medicine, medical treatments, social and economic conditions have combined to actually increase the span of the individuals life itself. There has been progress and forward motion in every kind of human endeavour - except the beliefs associated with UFOs.
As soon as the term Flying saucer was first coined people started talking blathering nonsense about them and 58 years down the line people are still blathering on about the same sorry old bollocks still with nothing to show.
If the stuff UFO Belief bangs on about is real duendy, no one would have to fake anything - but they do. Frequently and all the time. Chaps like Billy Meier aren't the architects of this, they are merely people who help satisfy a vast, ill defined cultural belief that there's exists more to heaven and earth than life as we are constrained to live it provides us with.
We live in a culture that provides us with plenty of time to sit and idly wonder about life, the universe, what may or may not be out there. It's a pursuit we all follow, one way or another.
Yet the notion that, as with all other things, there exist some people who simply can't distinguish between what they believe in their heads and the actual world they're living it - this becomes the great unthinkable if the matter to hand happens to be the subject of peoples personal "experiences" with the occupants of UFO's?
What actually happened to that famously open mind the rest of us are supposed to demonstrate, but when it comes to certain notions and concepts, ones that don't agree with whatever dippy notion is being proposed as being real, suddenly we become at fault simply through being open minded enough to consider that possibility that actually, yes, people are actually capable of fantasising, of making things up, of (and perish the thought) actually lying through their teeth whenever the mood takes them.
Generally people in all walks of life are not only capable of acting in such a way, they act that way with either little or no provocation whatsoever - but if these people happen to believe in UFO's...
What, suddenly they become incapable of telling a fib or stretching the truth in the slightest little bit?
Given the sorts of outrageous claims people make about their experiences, I think not. And moreover, I think you think that to.
Y'know d, you're forever branding me as a "sceptic" - not that I'm in the slightest offended by the term, I singularly fail to see precisely how the term "sceptic" could ever possibly be taken as a sign of intellectual weakness or shortcoming on the part of the person possessive of such a characteristic.
But in my particular case I'm doubly delighted because, although y'don't like digging through things and reading up on stuff terribly much I know, as far as dyed-in-the-wool UFO nut-jobs go - I actually qualify as quite by far one of the most serious nut-jobs with regards to the subject resident in possibly the boards entire history.
I'm possibly the only board member ever to have ventured seriously that a vehicle that conforms to UFO Classification can actually be explained in terms of real world, applied physics.
I'm certainly one of the very, very few individuals around here that have ever published extensively on the subject outside the media of the internet - if this doesn't qualify me as a genuine nut-ball, I singularly fail to imagine what might.
In what has become an actual career that's kept me fully occupied for the last 15 years full time that I can do that and still come over as a sceptic believe me is a validation that is without price - but I don't manage to achieve that through being sceptical.
I do it because I have the ability to actually read.
And as for the sorts of spurious claims routinely discussion on the subject inevitably forces one to consider, I can honestly say all one is ever actually reading about isn't actually about human experiences, its about human perceptions. What people think, what people believe, what people yearn about.
It's got bugger all to do with UFO's themselves.
Oh, and for the record? Actually, yeah. I did write the book. And I got paid handsomely for it too and spent every penny on pure frivolity -
Yes, Billy Meier....
d - you began this topic with a very definite assertion gleaned from the specific website you linked to - quoting something to the effect that -
"The professional skeptics of te Meirs case have concocted all sorts of fanciful notions and theories as to how he hoaxed te evidence. But when challenged to prove their claims they repeatedly replied thqt it was not their job to attempt to duplicate evidence, although conducting temselves according to the scientific method would require it.... "
Clearly the author of which maintains the position that there remains nothing either untoward or else in anyway suspect regarding Meier's photographs - and yet, even casual scrutiny of the actual photographs themselves clearly demonstrates Meier's own technical expertise when it comes to producing obviously quite crude fanciful images leave a very great deal to be desired.
As photographic images go they remain neither terribly plausible or particularly well accomplished - some work better than others, but the point remains Meier himself maintains throughout that all of his photographs depict actual space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - all of them. The good, the bad, the crashingly awful. These are all, if Meier is to be believed, UFO's here visiting earth and clearly very much of most of what Meier offers for scrutiny are actually no such thing of any sort.
Yet the gentleman in your quote eludes to no such recognition of any observation of the kind - and still you feel compelled to ask me:
duendy said:
These "anomalies" as you care to put them simply don't exist as reality, only in peoples belief. You're opening quote serves as the perfect example of this - the gentleman writing it alludes something otherwise extraordinary and inexplicable is being demonstrated by the "evidence" provided by Billy Meier and that it remains incumbent upon the rest of us to prove him wrong - yet, clearly, with regard to the material the gentleman is referencing nothing in the slightest "inexplicable" is being presented in the first place -
And it is this continuous ongoing process of first a someone maintaining that a "mystery" exists and b providing something spurious and not terribly plausible by way of "evidence" to support it that by in large very much does compromise the entire spectrum of ideas and notions UFO Belief occupies itself with hashing and re-hashing year after year after year - with not the slightest bit of forward headway to show for it.
In the intervening years between 1947 and the present day mankind has harnessed atomic power, developed the revolution in electronics and microprocessing, put men on the moon and has looked into space far enough to actually take photographs of literally the very dawn of time. The individual can now communicate globally to a considerable audience without need for vast wealth or great technical skill. Medicine, medical treatments, social and economic conditions have combined to actually increase the span of the individuals life itself. There has been progress and forward motion in every kind of human endeavour - except the beliefs associated with UFOs.
As soon as the term Flying saucer was first coined people started talking blathering nonsense about them and 58 years down the line people are still blathering on about the same sorry old bollocks still with nothing to show.
If the stuff UFO Belief bangs on about is real duendy, no one would have to fake anything - but they do. Frequently and all the time. Chaps like Billy Meier aren't the architects of this, they are merely people who help satisfy a vast, ill defined cultural belief that there's exists more to heaven and earth than life as we are constrained to live it provides us with.
We live in a culture that provides us with plenty of time to sit and idly wonder about life, the universe, what may or may not be out there. It's a pursuit we all follow, one way or another.
Yet the notion that, as with all other things, there exist some people who simply can't distinguish between what they believe in their heads and the actual world they're living it - this becomes the great unthinkable if the matter to hand happens to be the subject of peoples personal "experiences" with the occupants of UFO's?
What actually happened to that famously open mind the rest of us are supposed to demonstrate, but when it comes to certain notions and concepts, ones that don't agree with whatever dippy notion is being proposed as being real, suddenly we become at fault simply through being open minded enough to consider that possibility that actually, yes, people are actually capable of fantasising, of making things up, of (and perish the thought) actually lying through their teeth whenever the mood takes them.
Generally people in all walks of life are not only capable of acting in such a way, they act that way with either little or no provocation whatsoever - but if these people happen to believe in UFO's...
What, suddenly they become incapable of telling a fib or stretching the truth in the slightest little bit?
Given the sorts of outrageous claims people make about their experiences, I think not. And moreover, I think you think that to.
Y'know d, you're forever branding me as a "sceptic" - not that I'm in the slightest offended by the term, I singularly fail to see precisely how the term "sceptic" could ever possibly be taken as a sign of intellectual weakness or shortcoming on the part of the person possessive of such a characteristic.
But in my particular case I'm doubly delighted because, although y'don't like digging through things and reading up on stuff terribly much I know, as far as dyed-in-the-wool UFO nut-jobs go - I actually qualify as quite by far one of the most serious nut-jobs with regards to the subject resident in possibly the boards entire history.
I'm possibly the only board member ever to have ventured seriously that a vehicle that conforms to UFO Classification can actually be explained in terms of real world, applied physics.
I'm certainly one of the very, very few individuals around here that have ever published extensively on the subject outside the media of the internet - if this doesn't qualify me as a genuine nut-ball, I singularly fail to imagine what might.
In what has become an actual career that's kept me fully occupied for the last 15 years full time that I can do that and still come over as a sceptic believe me is a validation that is without price - but I don't manage to achieve that through being sceptical.
I do it because I have the ability to actually read.
And as for the sorts of spurious claims routinely discussion on the subject inevitably forces one to consider, I can honestly say all one is ever actually reading about isn't actually about human experiences, its about human perceptions. What people think, what people believe, what people yearn about.
It's got bugger all to do with UFO's themselves.
Oh, and for the record? Actually, yeah. I did write the book. And I got paid handsomely for it too and spent every penny on pure frivolity -
admit it mr ananymous. you dont know it all. ...please dont say yes you do or i will poke yu in the eye
your hubris backed up by your 'nuts and bolts' materialistic bias science cynially assumes that EVEYONE EVER to have shared areport about 'paranormal', abductions, seeing UFOs etc etc, must by either lying or 'mentaly ill' or 'fantasizing'....well, that to me is just NOT science for me. it is conclusion. and as far as i am aware, that aint science. real science doesn't lay down the myth of what reality 'is'--and if it DOESit becomes sciencism--a dogma like any other which i wont follow, and i hope others wont either
you attitude demeans our experience. yu push your view onto us with no qulification...and i dont mean letters after your name or a book under your belt etc, i mean HUMA qualification....someon who assumes to tell another THEIR experience....
even science is honest enough to admit they dont know that. as it cannot be measured--thus 'te mind/body/brain/mind problem' and the Hard Problem. ie., we dont KNOW the entireity of consciousness. and we dont KNOW matter/energy......if you say YOU do, your makin a fool of yourself. as flim flammy as ypu regardothers makig unsubstantiated claims
so, Do you understand consciousness my annonnymous?
your hubris backed up by your 'nuts and bolts' materialistic bias science cynially assumes that EVEYONE EVER to have shared areport about 'paranormal', abductions, seeing UFOs etc etc, must by either lying or 'mentaly ill' or 'fantasizing'....well, that to me is just NOT science for me. it is conclusion. and as far as i am aware, that aint science. real science doesn't lay down the myth of what reality 'is'--and if it DOESit becomes sciencism--a dogma like any other which i wont follow, and i hope others wont either
you attitude demeans our experience. yu push your view onto us with no qulification...and i dont mean letters after your name or a book under your belt etc, i mean HUMA qualification....someon who assumes to tell another THEIR experience....
even science is honest enough to admit they dont know that. as it cannot be measured--thus 'te mind/body/brain/mind problem' and the Hard Problem. ie., we dont KNOW the entireity of consciousness. and we dont KNOW matter/energy......if you say YOU do, your makin a fool of yourself. as flim flammy as ypu regardothers makig unsubstantiated claims
so, Do you understand consciousness my annonnymous?
duendy said:
Duendy, I cannot help but roll on the floor laughing after reading one of your posts like this one!
All your spitting & sputtering and verbal thrashings are nothing but vain attempts to try and cover your lack of knowledge of practically anything beyond your own little artist's world.
You try to bait and switch and make it sound as if anyone who cannot explain consciousness must therefore not know anything else either. What a pathetic, dull-minded creature you are.
And yes, I'm about to contribute something to this thread - and in very plain English, too. You can believe whatever you wish. That the atmosphere is filled with alien craft or with secret flying machines that belong only to the super-rich; that your bellybutton is inhabited by the survivors from Atlantis; that your neighbor is plotting to poison the whole world - whatever you like.
But just don't expect normal, intelligent people to agree with you.
And here's a little more plain English: you, and those like you that buy into every bit of UFOology that comes your way, alien abductions and the whole nine yards, are in serious need of a white jacket and padded room. Your pot is more than cracked, it's lying all over the place in broken shards.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Of course I don't understand consciousness d, I don't in the slightest claim to. But equally, simply because we have the capacity to believe a thing is possible, it doesn't mean that simply because we can think it, that it is -
Consider the Middle Ages and the popularly held belief in Witchcraft - how many women found themselves tortured and brutally murdered only through the completely spurious belief that Witches and Daemons exist.
Actually, when y'gets down to it, History is replete with truly idiot notions both compelling people and being used as excuses to perform the most unspeakable acts.
I mean, I take your point implicitly d so, please, not poking out m'eyeballs just yet but why actually is it so unbelievable that large quantities of people can simply make a thing up and run with it - Nations are founded on such myths, entire Peoples go to war through ill founded and poorly conceived beliefs regarding their place in the world and that of the the next door neighbours.
Why should UFO contactees, in practice, be any less screwed up than the rest of the people on this planet? Moreover, if they're actually telling the truth to begin with, then why do people like Billy Meier have to lie about their "experiences" - because, when Meier and the like do these sorts of things, fake up "evidence" and call it the real thing, this is what they are doing.
Lying.
And y'can't say it doesn't happen d because, all too rather often, it does.
I don't for an instant doubt peoples sincerity concerning the sorts of experiences people personally believe in. But, exactly as with the people who bought into the whole business concerning The Shaver Mystery as discussed, I don't doubt for an instant that anyone of the ordinary people writing in to Amazing Tales concerning their own experiences of The Deros believed with every fibre of their being that what they were describing actually happend...
But it didn't, and that's really been the whole point all along. It didn't happen.
And not a one of them ever seemed to understand that.
So, yes. It happens. Delusion. A horrible word, but real.
Consider the Middle Ages and the popularly held belief in Witchcraft - how many women found themselves tortured and brutally murdered only through the completely spurious belief that Witches and Daemons exist.
Actually, when y'gets down to it, History is replete with truly idiot notions both compelling people and being used as excuses to perform the most unspeakable acts.
I mean, I take your point implicitly d so, please, not poking out m'eyeballs just yet but why actually is it so unbelievable that large quantities of people can simply make a thing up and run with it - Nations are founded on such myths, entire Peoples go to war through ill founded and poorly conceived beliefs regarding their place in the world and that of the the next door neighbours.
Why should UFO contactees, in practice, be any less screwed up than the rest of the people on this planet? Moreover, if they're actually telling the truth to begin with, then why do people like Billy Meier have to lie about their "experiences" - because, when Meier and the like do these sorts of things, fake up "evidence" and call it the real thing, this is what they are doing.
Lying.
And y'can't say it doesn't happen d because, all too rather often, it does.
I don't for an instant doubt peoples sincerity concerning the sorts of experiences people personally believe in. But, exactly as with the people who bought into the whole business concerning The Shaver Mystery as discussed, I don't doubt for an instant that anyone of the ordinary people writing in to Amazing Tales concerning their own experiences of The Deros believed with every fibre of their being that what they were describing actually happend...
But it didn't, and that's really been the whole point all along. It didn't happen.
And not a one of them ever seemed to understand that.
So, yes. It happens. Delusion. A horrible word, but real.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Mr Anonymous said:
me]]]]]]]but as i am pointing you. YOU are under one. ypu dont understand consciousness yet seem to knpw what is going on, i hasten to guess you believe the mental illness myth, and materialistic positivist reductive science.....THAT aint delusion??
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Gustav said:
Mr Anonymous said:
And?
duendy said:
Then duendy, with the greatest possible respect, in that case then there is no evidence that anything at all took place, is there?
Last edited by a moderator:
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
So that's what you've been up to - I'd been wondering where you've been for the past couple of light years...
Yeah, the trips really have been awesome! ^_^
Been travelling a bit around, spent some time at Alpha Centauri jump station, then there was an awesome party in Andromeda galaxy. It's a yearly (Galaxy Middle Time) all galaxy celebration counting till it collides with Milky Way. They put bets for which galaxy will remain with more stars intact, then the local party divides into two totally drunk groups and mashes at one another, that group of which most remain standing wins, and presumably the galaxy which they represent.
But nothing is cooler to see than M45 Pleiades, it's a magical place, and their crystal amulets are guaranteed to keep you stoned as long as you are wearing them.
Now I'm just relaxing a bit on this planet, quite a nice, mostly harmless place.
Been travelling a bit around, spent some time at Alpha Centauri jump station, then there was an awesome party in Andromeda galaxy. It's a yearly (Galaxy Middle Time) all galaxy celebration counting till it collides with Milky Way. They put bets for which galaxy will remain with more stars intact, then the local party divides into two totally drunk groups and mashes at one another, that group of which most remain standing wins, and presumably the galaxy which they represent.
But nothing is cooler to see than M45 Pleiades, it's a magical place, and their crystal amulets are guaranteed to keep you stoned as long as you are wearing them.
Now I'm just relaxing a bit on this planet, quite a nice, mostly harmless place.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
"I am so high, I can hear Heaven.
Oh, but Heaven... No Heaven, don't hear me."
.... can't for the life of me remember where that comes from. Seemed of the appropriate somehow.
:m:
Oh, but Heaven... No Heaven, don't hear me."
.... can't for the life of me remember where that comes from. Seemed of the appropriate somehow.
:m:
- Status