Possible Yeti Remains Found

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this paw look a LOT like the footprint that was casted by the Tom Slick expedition to the Himilayas in the 1960's?
 
Yeti has been treated like UFO's and other phenomenon by lots of skeptics. If it's existance was finally verified, it would make skeptics as a whole look just as bad as they did when they claimed meteorites wern't real.
 
And with them out of the way we finaly wont need proof for anything. Thank god.
 
No, I didn't say that :) What I said is that some skeptics and debunkers need a real lesson in humility and I doubt it is going to be something they are going to relish.
 
And having the lock ness monster's baby would do just that! You crazy bigfoot/lockness/ufo people are worse than Bush and his WMD.
 
Sooo, let me get this straight. A piece of TANGIBLE evidence which might be supporting a claim made by believers of the paranormal is comming to light and the reaction I'm getting from the "skeptics" is ridicule and slander. No follow-up questions, no objections on what is presented, just angry outbursts?

My god, you sound like you are at war. What have the believers of the paranormal ever done to you? For that matter, where are the paranormal believers in this thread? Is NO ONE interested in a piece of real scientific evidence to be tested?

It seems to be the whole Paranormal vs. Skeptics argument has NOTHING to do with science at all anymore. The "Skeptics" are uninterested in tangible evidence despite their claim to be because it would make them look like fools if it is real. The "Believers" are likewise, because it could just as easily go against them.

Thank you both for highlighting the lack of science in skepticism and in believers, and showing us all that the the whole issue has more to do with ego and money... on both sides.

I'm still waiting for someone to engage in a discussion about the paw, by the way.
 
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I looked at the photograph, and I'm reserving judgement until the analysis is complete. Plenty of these creatures have been sighted worldwide, but there have been plenty of hoaxes as well. Here's food for thought, Xevious. Could it be that the hoaxers are really debunkers making it look like that such a thing doesn't exist?

As for Loch, pronounced Bach but with an 'L' in front of it, Ness monster, it's not just Scotland. Lake Champlain apparently has something big in it as well as Okanagon Lake in B.C. I might add that Ogopogo, the name for whatever it is in Okanagon Lake, has been sighted by natives for years well before white man came, well before hoaxes, and well before dollar signs light up in some people's eyes. So, it seems to me that the possibility of something big in Okanagon Lake is great, but the question is, what is it? Could it be some type of huge fresh water fish not categorized? Could it be some type of whale, or family of whales, that were trapped in these lakes. I don't know.

I viewed some photographs taken in the 70's by an underwater camera placed in Loch Ness. The photograph of the fin was especially intriquing because it did look like a Plesiosaur's fin-some believe this is the creature that people have been seeing. It was four feet long and two feet wide. The question though is how can something from millions of years ago, I think scientists speculate Plesiosaurs have been extinct for 120 million years, survive ice ages let alone a food shortage! There's no way a lake could sustain something that big! I just cannot see that happening even with the size of Loch Ness and Lake Okanagon. One never knows though. Wasn't there a man off the coast of Japan that caught a fish that was supposedly extinct for 60 million years? So, I still remain in the middle. I don't deny, but I cannot confirm either.
 
It is very fair to reserve judgement, and that is indeed a WISE perspective, but to me, this looks really promising. The paw resembles lots of what we find in Yeti tracks. The DNA so far looks right. It was found in an area the Yeti is more likely sighted. If it is some kind of hoax, someone went through a LOT of trouble to nesassarily kill a primate and doctor it, and then put it in a highly remote, difficult to access area and just HOPE someone might find it some day.
 
My psychic told me it's a bear's foot.
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:) You never know, it does kind of resemble a bear's foot, flattened out.

Xevious, do you think such a creature exists? Is it some type of primate not yet categorized? Mountain gorillas were thought to be some type of 'monsters' until one was captured in the '50s; don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 1950's that one was eventually caught.

Could the Yeti be the missing link? Or could the Yeti be a common ancestor between man and primate? Who knows...there's a lot of wilderness out there that hasn't been travelled by man.

As for the appendage itself, you're right. It would be a lot of trouble to doctor something like that and take it to a remote region. Could a debunker be that determined? If so, god, they have no life.
 
Yes, you are right about the Mountain Gurilla. So too were the Red Pandas of China... oh, and Colecanth. We can't forget him :) I'm not sure it is a bears paw. It might be, but if that were so I think Russian scientists would have already made that determination based on the skeletal structure. Trust me, Russian scientists aren't as bad as many people think.

I think the Yeti and Sasquatch populations could be members of the Australiophicles, Africanus, or possibly Homo Habbitus. I do not think they are Neanderthals. If they were, they would probably have been absorbed by our population, since many scientists think that Neanderthal man was genetically similar enough to have been compatible for reproduction.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
No, I didn't say that :) What I said is that some skeptics and debunkers need a real lesson in humility and I doubt it is going to be something they are going to relish.
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Why would that give skeptics a lesson in humility? What is it what skeptics have said about Yeti:

1) All evidence up to now was false.

2) No evidence for existense does thus exist.

That we might now, or tomorrow, or next year, find valid evidence in no way makes those statements wrong today.

It is not impossible that large, hitherto unknown primates exists on Earth, it is just not very likely.

But if the yeti is actually found, I can already hear the woowoos: "See, so we were right about Rosswell too!!!" :rolleyes:

Hans
 
Originally posted by Xevious
Yeti has been treated like UFO's and other phenomenon by lots of skeptics. If it's existance was finally verified, it would make skeptics as a whole look just as bad as they did when they claimed meteorites wern't real.
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Was there an official declaration by the organisation The Skeptics, about meteorites not being real? Do you have any references to Skeptics not believing in meteorites?

And if the yeti was proven, it wouldn't make Skeptics look bad at all. Skepticism is the logical choice when there is a lack of evidence. I think you need to rethink what it means to be a skeptic, it doesn't mean that the possibility of anything is denied, just that there is insufficient evidence to convince. First, we need evidence. Here, we have an object, time will tell what it is. To scream 'Yeti' is a bit premature.
 
Was there an official declaration by the organisation The Skeptics, about meteorites not being real? Do you have any references to Skeptics not believing in meteorites?
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Yes, I do. I'll be glad to find them for you, but the most significant that sticks out in my mind was Thomas Jefferson. He, and many of his European coleagues thought the idea of stones falling from the sky was the delusions of the "stupid masses". Put into modern lingo, the ramblings of trailer park trash. Sound familiar?

If you really think about it, is this really hard to believe? We are talking over 200 years ago. When you don't know what Asteroids are yet (the first wern't discovered until the 1800's any how) then the idea of stones falling from the sky is rediculous. Backtrack skeptical thinking. Where were these supposed stones comming from? How do they survive falling through the atmosphere? In the abstract, doesn't the idea of a stone falling out of the sky seem rediculous if you had no knowledge of Meteoroids / Asteroids yet?
 
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Xevious

although i believe in a 95% probability that creatures like the yeti actualy exist the "paw" is maybe more likely to be that of a bear or gorrilla species that pre-dates the yeti stage and might be of a different line of dna
although might share some genes
my thought is that, what would a petrified frozen defrosted frozen again paw of a bear look like

if there are any species like the loch ness monster or yeti left then their only chance of survival is if the world as a whole do not discover them... just look at the other animals that are being killed and eaten for sexual gratification of hedonistic rich elite
its pathetic
are there any vegetarian skeptics?

other examples would be
ellephant graveyard
giant squid
deep sea life/thermal vent habitats

most people who claim to be skeptics in so much as, acting out there self justification for being a shallow intellectual human
with little to no regard for environmental issues and animal welfare
a common theme among such people!
using ridicule of others as a personal ego boost
just like the school yard bully
that has been spoilt or victimised by their parents

poor pathetic skeptical bully!!!
poor pathetic skeptical victim!!!
i shed a tear for your childrens children

that they might not know what you have chosen to not do
while you sit in your warm wet patch as you defacate in your own
seat
spending resources on perfume and pills to cope with your lazzyness
and the sickness it breeds and fosters

the term skeptic has just as much credibility as the term
alien abductee
although it is more common for the skeptic to seek the other
while science is sitting on the side line feeling lost and confused

debunkers and their cronie skeptics are just the same as tabloid reporters
they doth make money from the sensationalising of something that they perpetuate and or generate at the expense of another person or persons

anywho

groove on all :)
 
Originally posted by Xevious
Yes, I do. I'll be glad to find them for you, but the most significant that sticks out in my mind was Thomas Jefferson. He, and many of his European coleagues thought the idea of stones falling from the sky was the delusions of the "stupid masses". Put into modern lingo, the ramblings of trailer park trash. Sound familiar?

*snip*
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Jesh Xevious, thats a double straw man. First you allege that there is such thing as Skeptics (capital s), in the form of a society or something, then you claim that the ideas of somebody 200 years ago somehow has any bearing on how modern skeptics (no capital s) are thinking.

Can't you do better than that?

Hans
 
Jesh Xevious, thats a double straw man. First you allege that there is such thing as Skeptics (capital s), in the form of a society or something, then you claim that the ideas of somebody 200 years ago somehow has any bearing on how modern skeptics (no capital s) are thinking.
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With respect guys, you should know me better than this. I know I'm probably not explaining my position well, so I will try to carefully sort it all out, emotionalistm, expectations, and ranting aside. First, there is no mass conspiracy on the part of skeptics to debunk everything. I never said there was, I wasn't even addressing that in my last post. Perhaps the way I answered mislead you, and if so that is my mistake.

THE HISTORY OF METEORITE DISCOVERY
It was not until the late 1700's to early 1800's before science accepted the existance of Meteorites. Before then, they were considered by most to be the superstition of the masses. Like other phenomenon, they had historic precidences. A 13th century Hitite King reported a "black iron of heaven from the sky".

When Thomas Jefferson was told that two Yale University professors had seen meteorites fall over Weston Connecticut, he said with typical skepticism: "I could more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall from heaven." His sentiments were echoed by Antoine Lavoisier, the founder of modern chemestery, who stated "Stones cannot fall from the sky, because there are no stones in the sky!" With this being the current additudes of science, museums all over Europe shamelessly threw out their ancient meteorite collections as relics of past superstitions. To date, not ONE meteorite to be found in any museum predates 1792, accept for one which was simply too large to remove.

The reason the case of meteorites sticks out in my mind is that the statements of Lavoisier and Jefferson bear a striking similarity to those statements that are made by skeptics to paranormal phenomenon. Indeed, in those times meteorites were considered fringe science: It WAS considered paranormal. But, despite all the statements that something did not exist, the masses refused to be silent. Eventually, the prejudices of scientists caved in like a house of cards, and one Charles P. Oliver left a final, stern warning for skeptics of the future: "In the face of all this evidence...the example should stand for all ages as...a warning to any man who feels that he can give a final verdict upon a matter outside his immediate experience."

This lesson, I feel has been lost. So far in this forum, Ivan Seeking has been the only to make any claim one way or another reguarding the remains. I too am reserving judgement, but I am hoping that IF this paw is what it is thought to be, it should be the same lesson to skeptics of this time, as meteorites were to the scientists and skeptics of Thomas Jeffersons generation.

Maybe the paw is from a bear, but so far no one knows.

REFERENCES:
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF8/805.html
Article from the Alaska Science Forum

http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-05-10/features/body.html
"Jefferson's Balance" by Shawn Carlson

http://www.alternativescience.com/chapter_11.htm
From the Book "Alternative Science" by Richard Milton. Even for me, some of his views are extreme, but he has good insights
 
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