That's why they are called virtual. They have been inferred though...The Casimir Effect.
We have never observed a BH either, but likewise they are inferred by their actions on matter/energy and space/time in their vicinity.
Possibility of star formation around black holes
- Thread starter Beaconator
- Start date
That's why they are called virtual. They have been inferred though...The Casimir Effect.
We have never observed a BH either, but likewise they are inferred by their actions on matter/energy and space/time in their vicinity.
Light does have momentum. It also has energy. [E=Mc2]
Light follows geodesic paths in space/time and gravity is a consequence of that space/time curvature.
Light also causes its own space/time curvature, due to its momentum, albeit very infinitesimally small.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
Oh. So that's the reason quasars exist. Black holes create vacuum fluctuations which repel energy itself. Neat.
I still can't draw a conclusion toward virtual particles under the casimir effect.
I refuse to debate the similarities between distance and time imposed by frequency and wavelength.
Janus58
Valued Senior Member
No quasars are black holes that are actively taking in surrounding matter. As the matter falls in toward the black hole it is accelerated to extremely high speeds, the collisions between this matter is what creates the radiation of the Quasar, it is the "death cry" of that matter as it fall into the black hole. Eventually these black hole will sweep up all the local matter quit being quasars.
???? Again, Quasars are no more than AGN. For all we know, the Milky Way may have been A Quasar at one time.
In all likelyhood, they are a phase of galactic evolution.
see.....What is the Casimir Effect?
The Casimir effect is a small attractive force that acts between two close parallel uncharged conducting plates. It is due to quantum vacuum fluctuations of the electromagnetic field.
The effect was predicted by the Dutch physicist Hendrick Casimir in 1948. According to the quantum theory, the vacuum contains virtual particles which are in a continuous state of fluctuation (see physics FAQ article on virtual particles). Casimir realised that between two plates, only those virtual photons whose wavelengths fit a whole number of times into the gap should be counted when calculating the vacuum energy. The energy density decreases as the plates are moved closer, which implies that there is a small force drawing them together.
more at.....
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/casimir.html
or.....
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424111/first-observation-of-the-dynamical-casimir-effect/
or....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
Again frequency and wave length are the same thing.
I still havn't worked out what you are debating. If you are proposing another theory, then you are in the wrong forum....
This is mainstream science and thought.
You may like to clear that small point up.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
Another example of matter turning into energy, but this isn't what we are looking for. We are looking for energy transforming into matter.
More likely the cesspool I think, but then somehow Victor's managed to stay out of it, so I could be wrong.
No it wouldn't. That's true of anything in motion, not just light. If you are driving in a car at 50mph and you round a corner while staying at 50mph, you are staying at 50mph. Anyone accurately tracking your speed would be able to tell you are still going 50mph.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
I just haven't seen enough evidence to suggest stars can not form in the vicinity of a black hole. I see many hypothetical options and acknowledge there is no observed evidence.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
Is it possible for a star to form from these collisions just before it is swept away?
The astronomers, and astrophysicists that use the state of the art equipment probes and telescopes certainly have plenty of evidence for that.
What you see or think is neither here nor there.
No, how many times has that been told to you?
Janus58
Valued Senior Member
No, an example of gravitational potential converted to kinetic energy and then converted to electromagnetic energy.
Janus58
Valued Senior Member
No. While individual particles can collide, you can not get large scale clumping. Tidal forces from the black hole would rip clumps apart. Even a preexisting star would be ripped apart by tidal forces before it got very close to the black hole. For example, our Sun could get no closer than 27 times the radius of the event horizon for the black hole at the center of our galaxy before being torn apart.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
You certainly are full of useful information.
"Quasars show where massive black holes are growing rapidly (via*accretion). These black holes grow in step with the mass of stars in their host galaxy in a way not understood at the present moment One idea is that jets, radiation and winds created by the quasars shut down the formation of new stars in the host galaxy, a process called 'feedback'. The jets that produce strong radio emission in some quasars at the centers of*clusters of galaxies*are known to have enough power to prevent the hot gas in these clusters from cooling and falling onto the central galaxy." http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar
But again, with access to numerous Satellites and probes and giant earth based telescopes as well as the HST, they do now have a good idea of what is more likely.
And stellar formation in the vicinity of a BH is not one of them, for the stated reasons.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
It also states the jets prevent matter from cooling the surrounding area and falling into the gravitational center.
The black hole is growing. The stars are growing while this jet is going. New stars aren't forming around the quasar, because it is devouring matter and dispersing heat.
When two galaxies collide there is a greater possibility of jets stalling in falling materials and gas.
Here is an article showing two galaxies after collision. The result triggers star formation. http://www.universetoday.com/108720/greedy-galaxies-gobbled-gas-stalling-star-formation-billions-of-years-ago/
If the resulting collision were able to disturb the normal trajectory of the photon sphere it is possible more energy is observed to produce stars and create larger elliptical galaxies.
The black hole is growing. The stars are growing while this jet is going. New stars aren't forming around the quasar, because it is devouring matter and dispersing heat.
When two galaxies collide there is a greater possibility of jets stalling in falling materials and gas.
Here is an article showing two galaxies after collision. The result triggers star formation. http://www.universetoday.com/108720/greedy-galaxies-gobbled-gas-stalling-star-formation-billions-of-years-ago/
If the resulting collision were able to disturb the normal trajectory of the photon sphere it is possible more energy is observed to produce stars and create larger elliptical galaxies.
Last edited: