If you are going to defend him you should realize the OP says this:
Do you think that this is likely too?
edit to add: glad to see a new member jump right into multiple threads - it is like you have been here right along.
Possibility of star formation around black holes
- Thread starter Beaconator
- Start date
If you are going to defend him you should realize the OP says this:
Do you think that this is likely too?
edit to add: glad to see a new member jump right into multiple threads - it is like you have been here right along.
I was really hoping someone would say this... even you especially.
I don't give two monkeys about whether his post makes sense, since most posts submitted on internet forums are mostly consistent of nonsensical idea's. What is really troubling, is the intellect of responses. Usually... the response holds more value than the OP.
In this case, the replies show as much misunderstanding as the OP.
Well you are here now....Please enlighten us.
I believe I already have. I explained, that stars are created by gas clouds collapsing upon their own gravity. Black holes, especially of the super category, may have absolutely massive accretion disks around them. Most of this matter and energy is made of gas clouds, you will find that gasses of photons for instance may be expected is a photon gas emanated from a quasar. A gas of photons is nothing more than a black body radiation. Approximately speaking, you are dealing with a black body radiation from ionized particles experiencing an acceleration in the local gravitational field $$\Gamma$$.
These gas clouds can become so heavy, they may break down to their own gravitational weights. Even better when you have the reference frame of a black hole nearby which exaggerates such effects.
I have already surmised the possibility of a star [if we could even call them stars] forming in an accretion disk, for short periods.
Certainly no formation inside 3 Schwarzchild radius.
And Beaconator has made inferences of stars forming near the EH.
I have no problem pointing out problems to the original poster, but trust me, it irritates me more that the OP asked his questions and yet posters have contradicted themselves with less than par answers which indicate serious misunderstandings of nature.
Of course it was possible for stars to form around category super massive black holes. I corrected someone, Russ I believe and it should now be left at that.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
You also believe the photonsphere is inside the event horizon. I'm sorry Mr. Hawking but you should realize the radius of the event horizon varies with the mass and velocity of approaching objects. And there is no limit to the mass of a boson.
The purpose of the thread is to surmise how energy transforms into matter. The most likely scenario is just outside the event horizon.
Nightshade do you by chance have a reference for the photon gas clouds/ black body radiation around quasars? I'm truly impressed with your logical foundations.
Yeh, I could give loads of papers which would help support it, but basically what I am saying is an approximation. The photons emitted for instance, happen from local ionized particles which make up an accretion disk - the presence of this gravitational field, the Schwarzschild core as someone mentioned before, would ensure there is a gas of photons which can be approximated from the black body spectrum.
Beaconator
Valued Senior Member
That was the fastest reply ever. I'm not that quick nor that concise.
What would you think of the spectrum emitted by an experimental object containing most known elements?
What would you think of the spectrum emitted by an experimental object containing most known elements?
An object which emitted all known elements??
That would be an exotic object indeed, but I don't think something nature can freely do.
An object which emitted all known elements??
That would be an exotic object indeed, but I don't think something nature can freely do.
Sorry you said ''most elements...'' my fault.
Well... most of the universe can be sliced up in it's constituents. We actually... make something as small as 4% of all the mass in the universe... it could be smaller than this. The largest chunks of this matter is in the hypothetical form of dark matter and energy.
So... most spectrum we should investigate will hold most of the known elements.
So... most spectrum we should investigate will hold most of the known elements.
And how close to the BH itself is this possible?
That has been the argumentive point. Beaconator infers at or near the EH...I see that as Impossible, and may see some formations of , what at a pinch could be called stars, at the accretion disk, 3 Schwarzchild radius.....
It's possible in and outside of the event horizon, or apparent horizon, as Hawking wishes us to call it now.
There are cases in which distantly-speaking, (I'd have to do calculations to find out what possibility there is in distance) but we are talking about a field only slightly orientated by the gravitational shifts, but get's more violent as you approach the core.
However, there are very special cases inside of black hole in which there inner horizons, in which space and time re-shift their coordinates... this is how the theory of inner galaxies form inside of the horizon in which space and time flow normally. Inside here, would be like living in a universe. You would also see normal star production there. Note, this latter theory is a very exotic case but has been known for a while.
Mr Hawking??? Hey it's you that is trying to rewrite cosmology, not me. Rather hypocritical to say the least.
And of course you are able to show me where I said the photon sphere forms inside the EH?
I mean, you did not even know what the photon sphere was for crying out loud!
I informed you, in no uncertain terms, that the photon sphere may form at 1.5 Schwarzchild radius.
Do you know what the schwarzchild radius is?
And of course your pseudoscientific statement about energy transforming into matter is just that...pseudoscience.
All in all, your claims are just as origin said.
I don't see that as being able to happen. Do you have any reference supporting it?
An object which emitted all known elements??
That would be an exotic object indeed, but I don't think something nature can freely do.
Actually, it's just plain rubbish.
And just another effort from another alternative theorist, to rewrite cosmology.
What part... you mean inside the black hole?
It's not a simple theory, but it has to do with inner horizons. There was a theory very hype in the 1980's which caught on again just recently... it was a theory that our universe was inside a black hole. Well, there was some mathematical evidence to back it up, when you analyzed what the density would look like to us inside the black hole... it turned out not very dense at all to an inside observer. This is of course, very similar to the universe we see around us.
So if star production can happen in our universe and happens freely, yet it is possible also that our universe is inside a black a hole, then technically and theoretically-speaking, it is possible that star production happens not only outside the event horizon (at a notable distance) but in our exotic case, we have possibly entire universes inside of black holes themselves in very special segmented regions.
Last stable orbit, that's a good candidate.
There's two points that need to be conisdered:
The first is the question "At what point do the tidal forces across a stellar body exceed the ability of the stellar body to hold itself together gravitationally" - given the size of protostellar objects that we see, it seems unlikely that a new star will form if an already existing star can not hold itself together.
The second point is that the closest we have evidence for stars forming to a SMBH is within two light years of Sag A*.
And that would be well outside the 3 Schwarzchild radius parameter I think...Good point.
So again, unsound speculative assumptions about stars forming at or near the EH, and with no valid observational evidence to support such claims.