Possession

Cyperium

I'm always me
Valued Senior Member
Once it is done it is done.

Only return to loose control, only return is to loose control.

It is not involuntary, you feel you want to, you are deceived and it is powerful. As if the very voice were your will.

You have all felt it (at least if you have had twitches in a muscle (often they may occur around the eyes)), if you think about it, it is as if there were a longing for the twitch, allthough you are really bothered about it. Like if "it's going to happen anyway, better that you want it" but somehow the other way around. Don't ask me.

The voice in the head of those that are possessed can be very empowering, it moves you, you fight back giving it energy to continue moving you. It doesn't feel natural at that point to loose control, but if you loose your control, he looses his control over you (you are you, you shouldn't have to fight for you, the inability to grasp this is fueling him and making you "want" to follow him). This is not the full answer though, and shouldn't be treated as such, that is not the intention of this thread either! If I could I would help every last one of those possessed. But it is done by love by the ones near, and the love within the individual.

Most people have experianced voices in the head, (not only thoughts, but spontanious voices), the difference is that they aren't that empowering over you, so you don't see it as a threat, but often it is in situations that you need advice. I got the drivers license last week, and when I drive in certain situations I can almost hear my teachers voice, also my fathers voice, repeating the advices I got in a similiar situation before. This 'hole in the filter' is probably needed because of such things, that others teachings sometimes should go past the filter and give you advice when it is needed. However like a computer can be open for hackers, so I believe that this hole can be a entry point for evil forces. It is believed that evil can only come in if they are invited, I have no support for this in the bible, but let's for a second assume that it is so. Cause there must be some restrictions for demons and such evil (or we would all be lunatics), could also be that most people are aware of this security hole, and are guarding it somehow (or just totally ignore everything that comes from it), could also be that our nature of sinning determines what restrictions and what resources the evil forces may have with us (however let us not stay too long wondering from their view) also of course how much we actually sin of what we are tempted (and how eager we are to change it for the better).

We should guard our "castle" (temple), it actually doesn't take much, you don't have to visualise yourself in a armor going about to destroy the enemy. If that was the case, would anyone make it? Once, twice, but your whole life?

Be on guard though, but don't expect too much, cause if you expect too much, you think that you need to do much more to face it.

The rules are made so there is a way to follow them, for anyone, for you.

--this is also one of the reasons why there is a importance for believing in God, that we are made to succeed, that we get justice in the end, and that is worth fighting for--

I know there is much injustice in the world. One that is self-knowing shouldn't have to die, it's not something that anyone should face, the fear of not knowing, cause in this life we will never know.

We live now, what is death compared to life?

Fear is like food for bad things. Not that fear in itself is bad for you, it keeps you from doing dangerous things, but since fear is unnatural in the greater schemes of things (we wouldn't be afraid if we lived with God) the evil can use it against us to make us do things that are sinful.

This is not something new, anyone that has been bullied knows about these things.

Fear can also be a motivation to keep sinning.

So fear is needed, but it shouldn't rule over us. Use your fear to keep you from doing harmful things (if you rob banks, use your fear in a way that keeps you from robbing banks, instead of using it as motivation to avoid getting caught, quitting robbing banks will also keep you from getting caught, for as long as you want - and without fear).

Life is hard, it isn't easy. Imagine having voices in your head telling you in the most demanding voice you have ever heard, so demanding that you can't keep yourself from following it. Not strange that some can mistaken it with God. But when it is God you will know, when it is evil, you will allways be unsure and feel uncertain. Evil uses fear, God uses truth. (I write this so that you can get a sense of the difference), I guess we should fear God, not fear Him, but fear for our inability to do what is right in His eyes, fear to do wrong against His (law)s. Fear because we know that He is the ultimate ruler. The creator of all things, visible and invisible.

However, God doesn't use this fear against us, He doesn't want us to follow Him because of fear, but because of love, because when we follow Him we do the right thing. That is my understanding of it (as is the rest in this post).

We shouldn't really have to build in disclaimers, people should trust eachother.

Would we have to lie if we did the right thing? How easy is it to defeat evil when you do it yourself? If you were to face it, would you be able? If someone got lost, could you lead him right?

We reep what we sow.
 
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Cottontop3000 said:
...and you're sowing shit.
You think?

Actually, what you say means nothing, since it is completly empty, and the closest I come to "shit" in the current state of this thread.

So, what's your story?
 
Wow, thats really good Cyperium...
One of the best post I've read in a while ...written from the heart too.
I apreciate that.
To be a "son" over your own house.....
That balance we arrive at in time by the grace of the Lord.
He fought and won the war....that makes the victory in our daily battles possible.
We learn how to let go, and get "ourselves" out of the way.....and He can operate through us.
God is glorified IN His people.
 
Cyperium's apparent delusions provide us with a good example for scientific study.

Robin Horton (1960) suggested that people turn to relationships outside "purely human society" when human relationships fail. Small, simple societies that are low in technological advancement are typically good at creating intimacy and political bonds within, but they have difficulty with prediction and control of their environments. Larger, more complex socities of high technological advantage are relatively impersonal: their individuals alienate one another and there is more separation from the familial level through to the state level. But these complex societies can predict and control their environments.

The small societies look to religion, therefore, for technical assistance with the weather, crops, pestilance, illness, etc. The larger societies turn to religion for personal relationships ("a personal relationship with God;" "Jesus is my co-pilot;" etc).

The main point of Horton, however, is that religion becomes an extension of human society. But the point that I draw from it is that religion is an anthropomorphism of humanity. Humans find themselves in other things, even to the point of animation.

Cyperium's rant above exemplifies this notion because of the recognition that humans need connection with others. If not a god, then demons. Both demons and gods are anthropomorphic in that we apply human characteristics and traits to their existences, but we also give them power over humanity in the form of magic (that imagined quality that doesn't exist in reality but provides imagined power to other things or entities).

Even "good" and "evil" can be inferred in Cyperium's post as anthropomorphic, existing as entities with intention and deliberation. The deities in Cyperium's imagination, therefore, become either "good" or "evil" and seek intentions that are either "good" or "evil."

The reality, of course, is that there are no apparent deities that control us, only our own need to enhance relationships with the imaginary where those that are real are absent. Perhaps what is missing in Cyperium's relationships is accountability. Surely the ability to pin misbehavior on a demon that is possessing him justifies his poor behavior (admittedly, I'm assuming that Cyperium is referring to himself with regard to possession); believing in demon possession appears to provide a motivation for making himself "think right" instead of entertaining "evil thoughts" or engaging in immoral behaviors. But if such behaviors or thoughts end up being tolerated, the believer need only release himself from accountability by blaming the resulting behavior on possession.

Doubtless, one such as Cyperium would argue that the accountability remains with the individual, since it was the individual's initial behavior, thoughts, or lack of faith in god that allowed the demon 'in.' This counter-argument is only minimally effective, however, because the "possessed" will still release himself from being accountable for his actions and redeem himself only with the condition that he or others acknowledge the behavior was the "demon" and not him.

Additionally, there are good medications that will keep your "demons" at bay, Cyperium. Prozac, Welbutrin, etc.

Reference:

Horton, Robin (1960). A definition of religion, and its uses. Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, 90, pp. 201-226
 
Cyperium said:
Most people have experianced voices in the head, (not only thoughts, but spontanious voices),...

Oh? I was under the impression that most people do NOT experience distinct voices in their head. Please enlighten us with some research on this.
 
by skinwalker;....The reality, of course, is that there are no apparent deities that control us, only our own need to enhance relationships with the imaginary where those that are real are absent

You can wish that to be true....of course,
But it is not,....your body is a vessel.
You are a host...whiether you know it or not.
The nature in your very blood, i.e. your spirit, is at eminty, or "war" with the Spirit of God.
You are either resisting that nature....striving with God's spirit, crucifying the nature of flesh, having surrendered as a captive of the kingdom of God asking for His mercy, or you are a slave and captive of the kingdom of Satan..who is the "prince of the power of the air"
The only choice you have is which side you surrender to.
 
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TheVisitor said:
WOOT! A wiblle wobble dribble wobble spirit body a chuck puuka cakka sbuffle Him kerererererererereer werneerrrerevererrr aviviuvas Satan wat wibt nmmmm phhht

Which makes about as much sense.

Thanks Phlog!
 
Cyperium,

Most people have experianced voices in the head, (not only thoughts, but spontanious voices),
Umm, I don't think so. Certainly not something I have experienced. Do you have any support for the claim?
 
Cris said:
Cyperium,

Umm, I don't think so. Certainly not something I have experienced. Do you have any support for the claim?

superluminal also wondered if I had any support for the claim, I haven't got any other support than my memory. I read about it some time ago.

I will look it up and let you know, but it has little bearing in the case anyway.
 
There's at least 3 claims in the original post for which evidence must be provided for it to be taken as anything more than a fantasy.

Claim 1) God exists
Claim 2) Demons exist
Claim 3) Evil exists

Look forward to seeing the presentation.
 
Cris said:
Cyperium,

Umm, I don't think so. Certainly not something I have experienced. Do you have any support for the claim?

I would agree with Cyperium on this actually and I can support it. Everyone hallucinates on a nightly basis whether they remeber it or not. I am referring to dreams of course and in dreams, other characters will interact with you verbally. Considering this is all hallucination taking place internally, it is correct to asseret that not just most people but everyone has heard spontaneous voices in their head.
 
However, God doesn't use this fear against us, He doesn't want us to follow Him because of fear, but because of love

I'm going to ask you right now whether you'd really like to get into this. I will hereby give you the opportunity to show me every single instance where god says he wants you to follow him because of love, and I will then show you 10 times the amount showing that fear is what he really wants.

The first major instance was seen when Abraham's son was only saved because - and no, not because of love - Abraham feared god:

""Do not lay a hand on the boy.. do not do anything to him Now i know that you fear god..."

This is actually quite consistent in the bible. Fear is the ruling aspect, however - I give you the chance right here and right now to show that I am wrong. In the meantime I state that your claims are wrong. Completely wrong. Eagerly awaiting response.
 
Cyperium, to really explore the meaing of 'possession' we have to look at prepatriarchal mythologyand its rituals...TRYYY if you can read this, which will really explain much more in depth: From Orphism to Gnosticism www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/ukraine/231/dionysian/orphism.html

the term 'possession' is translated from the Greek term meaning 'ENTHUSIASM'. which was/is?

it is te feeling celebrants of te religion of Dionysos got after taking te psychedelic sacrament.

in their myth they believe the ctual psychedelic vegatative 'herb' they mized with their wine WAS the 'god of Nature', Dionysos. are you wil me? so they would feel 'hir' resurrected---tis is why godmen in te prepatriarchal myths---which Christianity ripped off--he wa 'Twice Born'---ie once As the acred 'plant' and once as the feeling of possession. AND tis is most most important to understand. this feeling wasn't tought of as bad, or evil, or even cathartic, but as CELEBRATORY

it is only when te more ascetic reformers (the Orphics) of tis originary Dionysianism take over is when tey divide the tew individual from him/her self by creating beliefe of a separation between matter and 'spirit'

Orphism was a MASSIVE influence on Christianity. wit this we get the idea of a separate 'God'/'all-good' creator and a 'Satan/Devil all-bad demon.........Are you getting tis. cause ican see this myth refelcted in how you speak. one could alost see you wit the angel on one shoulder and the demon ont other....!

this is really needing exploring ...really really. because what tis divisory belief does is...divides us up. we can feel under threat from 'evil' and take on the role of the all-good idea. do you see. we are in othe words playing out the patriarchal propaganda

UNDERstand tat Nature is benevolent/ ypu dont need to protect yourself from 'demons'......'demons' realy when you sexplore about all this are really aspects mof orself tat have been demonized by te fascistic patriarcy which pretends to be ...ever so fukin pure----. what it really is is autoritarian. wat do ou imagine tier war on drugs is bout?? war on drugs includes the very sacramentsour ancestors took before the patriarchs suppressed tis freedom of union with organism and arth and substituted a terrible psychological burden

also notice how Skinwalker spins you a differnt mode of tis patriarchal mode. one one hand he tells you notto believe in te patriarhal religious myt, and on the oter to belive in the patriarhal secular myth. which includes its myth of mental illness, and the drugs it DOES allow, so called 'medication'---which HARM the bodymind!!
 
Crunchy,

Dreams are essentially the result of synaptic protein replacement. Protein is consumed as synapses fire (connections between neurons). During sleep and dreaming the synapses are replenished with fresh protein and that process causes random firings. The brain attempts to interpret the random firings and the results are dreams.

Similar results can occur using recreational drugs and even nicotein, all of which affect the way the synapses behave.

None of which are the result of external forces or supernatural voices.

I have no trouble recognzing dreams and I certainly don't see them as voices talking to me no more than when I recall any memory of a conversation during normal wake time.

I'd say that the perception of possession resulting in negative activity is no more than simple emotional imbalance, i.e. entirely natural.
 
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Cyperium,

Early perceptions of possesion came from the idea that spirits were airborn and that one could breathe in an evil spirit. This was further supported by the idea that the 'soul' was your breath which of course left the body when the body died.

All of these ideas were born out of sheer ignorance of human physiology. We know better now and the idea of possession is as hilariously idiotic as the concept of souls.
 
Hey Cris,

Cris said:
Crunchy,

Dreams are essentially the result of synaptic protein replacement. Protein is consumed as synapses fire (connections between neurons). During sleep and dreaming the synapses are replenished with fresh protein and that process causes random firings. The brain attempts to interpret the random firings and the results are dreams.

Similar results can occur using recreational drugs and even nicotein, all of which affect the way the synapses behave.

This is correct and consequently not all there is to it. Take lucid dreaming for example. People can recognize they are dreaming and directly influence the dream's content in very predictable ways.

Cris said:
None of which are the result of external forces or supernatural voices.

I would say the latter is very true as the supernatural doesn't appear to exist. Regarding the former, transcranial magnetic stimulation (an external device) can cause hallucination. Thats technically an external force.

Cris said:
I have no trouble recognzing dreams and I certainly don't see them as voices talking to me no more than when I recall any memory of a conversation during normal wake time.

Most people don't have trouble recognizing dreams. They are nonetheless hallucinations, regardless the mechanics, and the content of those hallucination includes voices. How you choose to view the experience of interacting with a dream character verbally doesn't discount that all of it occured in your head.

Cris said:
I'd say that the perception of possession resulting in negative activity is no more than simple emotional imbalance, i.e. entirely natural.

I agree that emotional imbalance can be a cause. I would also assert that poor timing of various parts of the brain can throw things out of sync and give rise to cognitive and interpretation imbalance that can also lead to the perception of posession.

The main point I did want to make however is that regardless of the cause, everyone has experienced voices in their head without exception. The context that Cyperium is working in is the supernatural and the original objection to his assertion of most people experiencing voices didn't include that context.
 
Cris said:
Cyperium,

Early perceptions of possesion came from the idea that spirits were airborn and that one could breathe in an evil spirit. This was further supported by the idea that the 'soul' was your breath which of course left the body when the body died.

All of these ideas were born out of sheer ignorance of human physiology. We know better now and the idea of possession is as hilariously idiotic as the concept of souls.
Aren't you "possessing" your body?

What about people with multiple personality disorder? Are the personalities aware as is he/she who has them? Then shouldn't that count as actual possession?

Since the person who has this disorder perceive him-/herself as being in the background while the other personalities is acting it effectivly discounts that it is just he/she that "switch" personality, and also shows that it is a actual possession where the persons body is taken over.

The real question which would prefferably be answered "yes" is "are the other personalities aware of themselves?".

Why it would be preffered? Because we allways assume that other people are aware of themselves, why stop when the other people exist in one body?
 
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