Pleased or dis-pleased.???

I would be very very surprised if Just Lovely was a Muslim. :rolleyes:

Of course you mite be rite about Just Lovely... however... his "argument" is no diferent than the circular argument ive herd Christans make about other people who clame to be "Christan"... which is:::

Anyone who clames to be a Christan... ant a true Christan if they behave or beleive diferent than me... an i know this to be true cause im a true Chistan... an as proof... jus ask any true Christan an they will agree wit what i jus said.!!!

Do you thank that a person who clames to have Muslim beleifs... dont truly have Muslim beleifs if they offer circular arguments as proof of the truth of ther beleifs.???
 
Yes I did.
what were you smoking? ( i want some)

how long were you fasting? (no food will cause lots of fun)

did you go a few weeks without sleep?
i asked you

so the first question is, do you listen to god or to god?

and you asked what the 'or' was for



either you are lying about 'hearing' god speak

or

breaking the rules (from god) and just lying because you can

not much in between, since God don't talk to people!

perhaps watch the movie Dogma (morset didn't talk, as she was too powerful for mankinds ears; 'beep')

or perhaps your god is another pharoah and you have him over for pork chops on fridays?
 
How would you know? Just because god doesn't get his own winky out is not an argument that god is not the cause of the event.

If a carpenter builds a very high quality theater stage so that his children can have the opportunity to put on a play - and his only intention is to bring happiness to everyone - would it be his fault if his children made a mockery of the stage and ended up just fighting with each other and causing themselves misery?

I'll repeat what I said again: I have never seen the entity known as God rape or cause the starvation of a child.

All of these miseries that we witness in the world are within human ability to solve - wouldn't that be evidence that we were the ones who caused them in the first place?
 
If a carpenter builds a very high quality theater stage so that his children can have the opportunity to put on a play - and his only intention is to bring happiness to everyone - would it be his fault if his children made a mockery of the stage and ended up just fighting with each other and causing themselves misery?


If the carpenter also created the children in such a way that he knew it was inevitable that they woud fale... whos fault is it that the children faled... which begs the queston... was the creators intentons to brang happyess to "everyone".???
 
If the carpenter also created the children in such a way that he knew it was inevitable that they woud fale... whos fault is it that the children faled... which begs the queston... was the creators intentons to brang happyess to "everyone".???

how about the carpenter creating himself? How about the so called children being that carpenter? what than?

A social infrastructure that God is, each person makes up part of God...each segment fills God's image.
 
Originally Posted by stateofmind
If a carpenter builds a very high quality theater stage so that his children can have the opportunity to put on a play - and his only intention is to bring happiness to everyone - would it be his fault if his children made a mockery of the stage and ended up just fighting with each other and causing themselves misery?

If the carpenter also created the children in such a way that he knew it was inevitable that they woud fale... whos fault is it that the children faled... which begs the queston... was the creators intentons to brang happyess to "everyone".???

pretty clever clueless.

What will be truely clever is a rebuttal from stateofmind which will refute my argument.!!!
 
If a carpenter builds a very high quality theater stage so that his children can have the opportunity to put on a play - and his only intention is to bring happiness to everyone - would it be his fault if his children made a mockery of the stage and ended up just fighting with each other and causing themselves misery?

Your analogy is inaccurate. The parent doesn't build a theater, instead he builds a beautiful playground and puts his children in that playground. He says to his children that they must not touch the bag of sweets that are sitting in the playground for no particular reason.

What the parent also knows is that a paedophile is in the playground just waiting to 'corrupt' your children, (the parent also knows he'll succeed).

Note: You might ask why I said there's a paedophile in the playground. The reason is because I submit that most of us would consider them the most evil of people. They would be further linked in that they, (I assume), put on a nice face and deceive the innocent child into becoming corrupted. What we do know from the bible is that the garden was inhabited, (without parental complaint or intervention), by the most evil entity in all existence. Think about it - the most evil entity you could ever possibly ever imagine was walking around in that garden made specifically for his children without the parent batting an eyelid. No human that I know of would consider that reasonable. Can you name me any human that upon finding out that the place made for and inhabited by their children is also home to the most evil entity they can possibly think of, wouldn't get right down there and defend their children?

Yes, our children can make mistakes, bad decisions and ignore our requests but that never prevents us from protecting them if we have the ability to do so. Unless we're god, in which case christians would have us believe the exact opposite of what we know as parents.

So anyway, this parent knows the playground is inhabited by a paedophile and sits there doing nothing to prevent the inevitable outcome. Nothing at all. The parent saw the paedophile walk in to the playground. He did nothing. The parent saw the paedophile approach the sweets. He did nothing. The parent saw the paedophile approach his children with those sweets. He did nothing. The parent sat idly by watching as those he claims to love more than anything got corrupted.

He then cursed his children for his own unforgivable bad parenting.

All of these miseries that we witness in the world are within human ability to solve - wouldn't that be evidence that we were the ones who caused them in the first place?

I don't see that this statement holds up when observing such suffering and misery in other forms of life. Did we make the spider wasp lay its eggs inside spiders which then proceed to eat it from the inside out while it's still alive?

Did man invent the fly? Did man sit down and design a creature that would terrorise both people and animals? Did we decide that in order to survive it would have to puke on our food and stamp it in? Did we create the fly with it's uncanny ability to spread disease and germs?

So, because we can, (not), solve all the misery that the fly causes by completely eradicating it, how do you claim it is "evidence that we caused [them] in the first place"?

No my friend, the fly is a masterpiece - clearly and undeniably intelligently designed. Come on, the christian demands it. They tell me only a fool would believe that these things came about naturally, but that they were actually designed specifically by an all powerful intelligence. Which is it?
 
If the carpenter also created the children in such a way that he knew it was inevitable that they woud fale... whos fault is it that the children faled... which begs the queston... was the creators intentons to brang happyess to "everyone".???

To be honest, these arguments are fun but they're pointless. It's all speculation.

I liked dragon's point that we, ourselves, make up parts of the greater entity "God" - in which case the "children" would have also made the stage.

Now, if I was God and had infinite knowledge and power, what kind of stage would I make? Probably one that allowed any and all possibilities. Infinite resolution (God is a videophile.) Infinite audio quality (God's also and audiophile) Infinite taste resolution (maybe God's just a "phile" in general :p) You get the idea...

By splitting itself infinitely on an equal playing field, it makes possible infinite variation and experience. This is all just speculation though. :cool:
 
SnakeLord said:
I don't see that this statement holds up when observing such suffering and misery in other forms of life. Did we make the spider wasp lay its eggs inside spiders which then proceed to eat it from the inside out while it's still alive?

Did man invent the fly? Did man sit down and design a creature that would terrorise both people and animals? Did we decide that in order to survive it would have to puke on our food and stamp it in? Did we create the fly with it's uncanny ability to spread disease and germs?

So, because we can, (not), solve all the misery that the fly causes by completely eradicating it, how do you claim it is "evidence that we caused [them] in the first place"?

No my friend, the fly is a masterpiece - clearly and undeniably intelligently designed. Come on, the christian demands it. They tell me only a fool would believe that these things came about naturally, but that they were actually designed specifically by an all powerful intelligence. Which is it?

It's called the circle of life - haven't you ever seen the Lion King??
 
Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
If the carpenter also created the children in such a way that he knew it was inevitable that they woud fale... whos fault is it that the children faled... which begs the queston... was the creators intentons to brang happyess to "everyone".???


To be honest, these arguments are fun but they're pointless. It's all speculation.


Stateofmind---"I'll repeat what I said again: I have never seen the entity known as God rape or cause the starvation of a child.

All of these miseries that we witness in the world are within human ability to solve - wouldn't that be evidence that we were the ones who caused them in the first place?"


Are those you'r beleifs or not.???
 
Are those you'r beleifs or not.???

The thoughts I've shared are among the most compelling explanations for this kind of stuff, in my opinion. Is it a belief? It's more like what I think it most likely is - based on the belief that the universe is rational. I don't know whether these things are true or not because I haven't experienced them first-hand.
 
"I'll repeat what I said again: I have never seen the entity known as God rape or cause the starvation of a child.

All of these miseries that we witness in the world are within human ability to solve - wouldn't that be evidence that we were the ones who caused them in the first place?"

---The thoughts I've shared are among the most compelling explanations for this kind of stuff, in my opinion. Is it a belief? It's more like what I think it most likely is - based on the belief that the universe is rational. I don't know whether these things are true or not because I haven't experienced them first-hand.


Do you thank/belive that "God" created humans.???
 
It's called the circle of life - haven't you ever seen the Lion King??

What it is or is not called is completely besides the point. Can you please address the post properly?
 
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