Perpetual motion machine

F

frogjake10

Registered Senior Member
I know, this concept iws constantly ridiculed, I am merely attempting to see if any of my ideas will work, if they do, awesome. If not. Doesn't matter, only a little time wasted. I am new to this site, so, I do not know how to upload an image, I will describe my idea though
+ is the positive side of the magnet.
- is the negative side
Code: 
       +
       -
            
+              +
-               -
       +
       -               +
                        -
As I have said, It is crude, if you do not understand it, please reply
Sorry about the failed diagram, I will upload one when I get home.
 
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I fixed your diagram a bit.

It is your idea that the outer magnet orbits the four inner magnets?
 
I would imagine it would work in a total absence of friction... but that would mean that it isn't doing anything either.
 
Kittamaru said:
I would imagine it would work in a total absence of friction... but that would mean that it isn't doing anything either.
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Yes, And I've emphasized the key phrases above - they both have to be true for any perpetual motion device.
 
No, the outer magnet is supposed to push the inner magnets, as they are connected to a pole in the center of them, I have an idea to take friction out, but, I have not perfected it, so, I will not talk about it yet. This concept is that the inner magnets are pushed by the pole of the outer one. I know that it may stop, so I was thinking of angling the outer magnet in order to get it to have optimal push.
 
What do you mean by that, that perpetual motion is impossible, or that with current resources for a child that it is?
 
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If friction is a problem, then you don't have a workable system. Why don't you try it, frogjake, and see what happens.

No need to call someone names when they simply pose an idea.

Someone afraid of new ideas that may conflict with those who live here? No free thought on this site?
 
Perpetual motion does exist for my Ex wife could spend my money faster that I could make it without ever stoping for me to catch up! :D
 
eclectician said:
If friction is a problem, then you don't have a workable system. Why don't you try it, frogjake, and see what happens.

No need to call someone names when they simply pose an idea.

Someone afraid of new ideas that may conflict with those who live here? No free thought on this site?
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I was not calling him a name, I am a child, and the resources I can aquire are minimal, so, I thought he may be saying it is imposible for me, or just generally impossible. I am wishing to get the ideas of others from this site, so, please supply them.
 
I am going to move this thread to the Pseudoscience subforum, this isn't because the initial Poster has made some startling boo boo in logic, in fact it's just that Perpetual Motion gets discussed from time to time and it usually ends up in Pseudoscience.

I'd obviously suggest trying to look at the Laws of Thermal Dynamics (1 and 2) and the Conservation of Energy, you should then perhaps be able to look at your model and attempt to either justify how those laws are either not invalidated or understand how they are.

(Note: While I have supplied links to wiki, I would really suggest that if you are interested to perhaps look more into various books you can get out from the Library on the subject)
 
I have looked into thermodynamics. But, I was thinking that it is possible for these laws to be broken, as they have not been tested with every possible machine. Henceforth I am attempting to break one, I know, it is an idea that is, infeasible but, I would like to try.
 
Perpetual motion is everywhere. The moon orbits the earth, which orbits the sun, which orbits the milky way, which orbits the local galaxy cluster, which orbit the super cluster. All of which are on the move and will never stop.
 
frogjake10 said:
I have looked into thermodynamics. But, I was thinking that it is possible for these laws to be broken, as they have not been tested with every possible machine. Henceforth I am attempting to break one, I know, it is an idea that is, infeasible but, I would like to try.
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You are wasting your time. No machine is 100% efficient. So perpetual motion is impossible. There is friction, air resistance, flexing and warping that slightly heat the substance, and the heat is radiated, all losses to your system, energy losses that will eventually add up and cause your machine to slow, and stop.

Take a really simple machine, a pendulum, even in a a vacuum, as no vacuum is perfect, there will be some resistance, however small. The fulcrum will wear as it swings back and forth (you'd need two infinitely hard bearing surfaces to avoid this) and then, the beam that holds your pendulum will flex (so you'd need an infinitely stiff member). You do not have infinitely hard, nor stiff materials at your disposal.

Adding complexity will just add more loss, so you cannot mitigate imperfection with complexity. Employ your interest in achievable physics. Your curiosity is good, explore, but don't chase wild geese.
 
phlogistician said:
You do not have infinitely hard, nor stiff materials at your disposal.
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That's what she said! Sorry..couldn't resist. :)

I'm trying to remember a quote I heard here before...it went something like

"People would doubt Relativity are <something>...People who doubt Newton are <something>...People would doubt the Laws of Thermodynamics are just wrong"

My memory fails me....anyone remember that?
 
Blindman said:
Perpetual motion is everywhere. The moon orbits the earth, which orbits the sun, which orbits the milky way, which orbits the local galaxy cluster, which orbit the super cluster. All of which are on the move and will never stop.
Click to expand...

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the Earths orbit (and rotation) is, by nearly immeasurable amounts, slowing down.
 
frogjake10 said:
I have looked into thermodynamics. But, I was thinking that it is possible for these laws to be broken, as they have not been tested with every possible machine. Henceforth I am attempting to break one, I know, it is an idea that is, infeasible but, I would like to try.
Click to expand...

Just a word of advice here: You can try all you like. But you should know that thousands of people have spent their entire lives - and all their money! - and not one of them even came close to breaking those laws. It cannot be done.
 
Read-Only said:
Just a word of advice here: You can try all you like. But you should know that thousands of people have spent their entire lives - and all their money! - and not one of them even came close to breaking those laws. It cannot be done.
Click to expand...

Well... I wouldn't say it "cannot be done"...

more likely... it "cannot be done with our (comparatively limited) understanding of how the universe works and our (comparatively limited) resources at our disposal"...

Likely, it is possible to break even the most fundamental of the laws of the universe... just that it is not within our power to do so at this time.
 
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