Perceptions of sciforums moderation

[scott3x]

Originally Posted by scott3x

While this forum is apparently not for criticizing the administration

What forums is???

None :-/. However, a mod hasn't yet closed down the thread yet, so that's something anyway.

I think that it should be allowed, atleast in a civil manner. I have already protested 2 times to James concerning post deletions that Skinwalker has made but James was apparently fine with his decision. Seeing as how protesting to the administration doesn't seem to do much,

James it the kind of guy that writes down every complaint and grudge on a kill list, and when the list gets long enough he pulls out the pithier and undertakes the job with extreme prejudice (in a sort of nice guy, passive aggressive, "I think it wise for you to freely resign your position in good faith, and this is not a suggestion" sort of way) it happened to SAM and countless mods before (not me I resigned without a word from James... he just that scary). and with enough complaints silently registered by James it will happen with Skinwalker.

This is assuming that James finds any flaw in his moderation. I have seen no indication to this point that that is the case. Anyway, if James is scary, I would contend that it's only because he seems to clearly command respect here; rankwise, he's also the only admin that posts something and he never did deny my probing question as to whether he's the one who pays the bills around here. In terms of insults, the worst I've seen him use is "buffoon", which, while it certainly may offend, is atleast different from the usual tired fair (such as 'idiot', 'moron', f word derivatives). I've only heard of him doing it once, too.

I think it might be better to get the issue out into the open.

"Hey Stalin we want to talking about your problems out in the open" yeah that will work.

This isn't the U.S.S.R.; the worst that can happen is that James or whoever really does pay the bills around here closes shop. Failing that, the person criticizing part or all of the administration could be banned temporarily or permanently. While some may feel they can't live without sciforums, I'm not one of them. Although I do think I'd miss some parts of it .

Nevertheless, I don't think that name calling will help anything. Besides the fact that I haven't referred to anyone in this forum using the term you have used above and don't think it's helpful for a constructive conversation, there is also the fact that while I may disagree with Skinwalker's methods, he has certainly been better then some of the posters here. However, this doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement.

I been able to get by with mild profanity here for what, 8 years, perhaps its because they like my rocking tits or something. Profanity does not bother the admins as much as over all behavior and annoyance, if you annoy the mods and admin in one way or another, they will find a reason to ban you someday. As rule #9 of the internet states this is simply the way of things, can't complain about it and expect it you to get fixed (or even to not get banned), the only way you could fix it is if you made your own forum and ruled it the unbias benevolence you think you can provide...

I ran my own forum for a time on a specific subject; it was ok for a while, but then it petered out. It was one of those free forum things. I don't know if ads manage to pay the bills here, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's not the case. Anyway, to anyone who believes that making a lively forum is easy, I definitely recommend trying to start one, laugh .

chances are you will becoming an anal retentive power lording asshole, or if not you will notice that there will always be people complain about the administration that you feel is unwarranted but that they feel is completely warranted and will never think otherwise, but you will allow them to stay because you like providing at least the artificial vista of fairness, this latter is something I can live with, it is sciforums and it far better then the former, trust me, I've been there!

In my forum, I didn't ban a single person. However, I believe my forum never ran over 25 people or so. Not only that, but the only people who were even invited were hand picked by me and my moderators; they were all fairly civil. I seriously dislike it when someone cracks open the usual can of insults and if that had happened things may well have been different.

 

[scott3x]

His own, clearly... but to be more precise, I don't believe he has really looked at the arguments against Skinwalker; he certainly hasn't addressed the points I've raised, and I don't believe he's addressed SAM's or joepistole's either.

Well if he needs some material for perusing, I can certainly provide it.

You'll have to wait in line, laugh ;-).

 

[ElectricFetus]

None :-/. However, a mod hasn't yet closed down the thread yet, so that's something anyway.

Hey now your seeing the bright side of life.

This is assuming that James finds any flaw in his moderation. I have seen no indication to this point that that is the case.

Maybe you have not been around to see all the moderatores he has demoted, scared off, even banished, Here is a short and incomplete list:
http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/Ex-moderator

Anyway, if James is scary, I would contend that it's only because he seems to clearly command respect here; rankwise, he's also the only admin that posts something and he never did deny my probing question as to whether he's the one who pays the bills around here. In terms of insults, the worst I've seen him use is "buffoon", which, while it certainly may offend, is atleast different from the usual tired fair (such as 'idiot', 'moron', f word derivatives). I've only heard of him doing it once, too.

Let me get this straight with all the things a admin could abuse, your giving him credit for good language? Did you ever see the movie the Royal Tenenbaums with Gene Hackman, Ben Stiller and the Wilson brothers? There this scene were Owen Wilson come flying through a window due to a car accident and this mentally abnormal kid picks up Owen Wilson shoe and says "your drop this", you just made an equal significant misjudgment in priorities! James is trying to extrude fairness and restraint from every pore on his body and you are most impressed with his good language, the horror!

This isn't the U.S.S.R.;

No worse this is the internets!

the worst that can happen is that James or whoever really does pay the bills around here closes shop. Failing that, the person criticizing part or all of the administration could be banned temporarily or permanently. While some may feel they can't live without sciforums, I'm not one of them. Although I do think I'd miss some parts of it .

No the worse that could happen is someone would actually care. The internet is vast if you don't like it here, move on, if the here is no longer here, move on, don't look back.

In my forum, I didn't ban a single person. However, I believe my forum never ran over 25 people or so. Not only that, but the only people who were even invited were hand picked by me and my moderators; they were all fairly civil. I seriously dislike it when someone cracks open the usual can of insults and if that had happened things may well have been different.

Wow, wow.. that is sooooooo lame. Did you ever see someone crawl so far up their own ass that their head protrudes from their mouth? I just did! ... I should lay off the dramamine.

If I was to make my own forum, it would be a no rules mush pit where trolling is rewarded and civility is pissed on, and porn and vulgarity would be posted in big flashing images and I would rule it like the king of idiots... oh wait that the #chan I don't need a forum of my own, never mind.

 

[scott3x]

None :-/. However, a mod hasn't yet closed down the thread yet, so that's something anyway.

Hey now your seeing the bright side of life.

"Always look on the bright side of life", laugh ;-).

This is assuming that James finds any flaw in his moderation. I have seen no indication to this point that that is the case.

Maybe you have not been around to see all the moderatores he has demoted, scared off, even banished, Here is a short and incomplete list:
http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/Ex-moderator

I'm sure the list of posters is even longer. This forum is fairly big; I think it stands to reason that there will be a fair amount. However, based on what I've seen of James, he seems to be fairly good at his role as moderator in chief. I disagree with him at times, but he virtually never uses the base insults and other highly biased tactics that other posters and even a certain moderator has used. True, he seemed to think that Skinwalker's deletions of my posts were 'fine', but atleast I've never seen him delete for absurd reasons.

Anyway, if James is scary, I would contend that it's only because he seems to clearly command respect here; rankwise, he's also the only admin that generally posts and he never did deny my probing question as to whether he's the one who pays the bills around here. In terms of insults, the worst I've seen him use is "buffoon", which, while it certainly may offend, is atleast different from the usual tired fair (such as 'idiot', 'moron', f word derivatives). I've only heard of him doing it once, too.

Let me get this straight with all the things a admin could abuse, your giving him credit for good language?

It's not just language, as I mentioned above; he also doesn't go looking for reasons, regardless how petty, for deleting one's posts either.

Did you ever see the movie the Royal Tenenbaums with Gene Hackman, Ben Stiller and the Wilson brothers?

Heard of it, but didn't see it.

There this scene were Owen Wilson come flying through a window due to a car accident and this mentally abnormal kid picks up Owen Wilson shoe and says "your drop this", you just made an equal significant misjudgment in priorities! James is trying to extrude fairness and restraint from every pore on his body and you are most impressed with his good language, the horror!

Perhaps the best way of describing James for me is that he has class. Something that is in rather short supply. And I will give even Skinwalker this; he atleast gave lip service to actually having good reasons for deleting my posts. The problem is that it was just lip service, a facade.

This isn't the U.S.S.R.

No worse this is the internets! [/quote]

...worse? If You were to post a message saying that James was all that was wrong with the world, at worst, you could get perma banned. If you only said it once, you'd probably simply get a and be forgotten soon after. I don't think you'd want to say the same of Stalin when he was in power.

the worst that can happen is that James or whoever really does pay the bills around here closes shop. Failing that, the person criticizing part or all of the administration could be banned temporarily or permanently. While some may feel they can't live without sciforums, I'm not one of them. Although I do think I'd miss some parts of it .

No the worse that could happen is someone would actually care.

I care. I can -live- without sciforums.. I just don't want to. Atleast not yet

The internet is vast if you don't like it here, move on, if the here is no longer here, move on, don't look back.

Sometimes it's best not to look back, I agree. This doesn't mean the people not looking back don't care necessarily.. at times, it actually means that sometimes it's best to forget what's painful to remember.

In my forum, I didn't ban a single person. However, I believe my forum never ran over 25 people or so. Not only that, but the only people who were even invited were hand picked by me and my moderators; they were all fairly civil. I seriously dislike it when someone cracks open the usual can of insults and if that had happened things may well have been different.

Wow, wow.. that is sooooooo lame.

Do I win the 'king of lame' award or something ?

...I should lay off the dramamine.

Indeed

If I was to make my own forum, it would be a no rules mush pit where trolling is rewarded and civility is pissed on, and porn and vulgarity would be posted in big flashing images and I would rule it like the king of idiots... oh wait that the #chan I don't need a forum of my own, never mind.

Tell me something Electric.. if #chan is so great, why are you here ?

 

[ElectricFetus]

scott3x,

You no not of the powers of the Internets, many a fools have come thinking it be serious business, and died for their foolishness.

Tell me something Electric.. if #chan is so great, why are you here ?

I never said its 'so great', rather it fulfills only one of my many needs (unadulterated black comedy). Sort of like how masturbation may deal with general sex drive but can't help the need for romantic companionship.

 

[draqon]

what's #chan?

 

[Challenger78]

4chan I'm assuming.

 

[copernicus66]

None :-/. However, a mod hasn't yet closed down the thread yet, so that's something anyway

Ironically, I was banned for offering excessive criticism of the moderation on this thread.

 

[pjdude1219]

Ironically, I was banned for offering excessive criticism of the moderation on this thread.

actually I'm pretty sure you were banned for being an asshat.

 

[copernicus66]

actually I'm pretty sure you were banned for being an asshat.

No. The reason give was 'Post something useful instead of criticism of moderation'. Which is ironic, since criticism of moderation is a minority of posts.

 

[pjdude1219]

No. The reason give was 'Post something useful instead of criticism of moderation'. Which is ironic, since criticism of moderation is a minority of posts.

You were being a whiny little bitch making claims with no substance.

 

[copernicus66]

By the way, does anyone find it counterproductive for the mod squad to try and make me complain less about the moderation by moderating me *more*? That's so fucking stupid, it's like kicking a guy in the balls to stop him from screaming in agony.

 

[copernicus66]

You were being a whiny little bitch making claims with no substance.

I have plenty of substance to my claims. The fact that particular moderators and their valets choose to ignore them does not negate that fact.

Edit: By the way, my banning for daring to question the lack of integrity shown by particular moderators has taught me a valuable lesson. I will no longer be issuing complaints on Open Government or via PM to particular moderators. All complaints will go directly to the administrator.

 

[pjdude1219]

being more of a whiny little bitch is not going to help your cause any.

 

[draqon]

copernicus66...those who hold loaded guns to our heads, are to be respected. Or else we will be shot without questioning.

 

[copernicus66]

copernicus66...those who hold loaded guns to our heads, are to be respected. Or else we will be shot without questioning.

The moderators don't own this forum, they don't pay for its upkeep. They were chosen by the powers that be to enforce the rules in a fair and impartial manner, and are accountable to the owners and the rules, just as we are. Banning someone for simply pointing out that a moderator isn't adhering to the code of conduct is fucking ridiculous.

You see, I have the upmost respect for the rules enshrined by the owners of this forum. It's *their* forum, and the rules they supply us with guide our code of conduct. I adhere to them and will accept punishment without complaint if I violate them. If I don't like the rules, I'll just leave. However, I will protest when moderators fail to enforce the rules in a fair, impartial and non-arbitrary manner, and god forbid, fail to adhere to the rules themselves.

The problem is that moderators have become a law unto themselves, and Plazma is a bit like a benevolent monarch who can't keep tabs on every little bit of shit his enforcers do. I mean, just imagine reviewing all of Tiassa's posts in response to a perceived complaint! Now add to that James R's, Skinwalkers, and up until recently, SAM's. Much easier to just get a summary from the moderator themself, which is often a distorted version of events.

I wonder what the owners would say about the fact that moderators feel that sometimes one can disobey the 'no personal attacks' rule if they think it is merited? Say, that's a good question to PM to Plazma. I'll ask him to clarify exactly when it is permitted to insult another poster. After all, the moderators can't keep their fucking story straight.

 

[James R]

copernicus:

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that as far as moderation here goes, one hand does not know what the other is doing.

As a matter of fact, there is an entire moderators' subforum that you cannot see, where moderators discuss problem posters, potentially contentious decisions, possible changes to site policies, the day-to-day housekeeping that moderators do that is largely invisible to members such as yourself, and a lot more besides.

If you think that whinging to a particular administrator will allow you to play off that administrator against another administrator or a moderator or whoever, think again. You won't be telling them anything they aren't already well aware of. The moderators are way ahead of you in this game.

 

[Enmos]

If a mod issued a string of unreasonable infractions, deleted posts etc, how would you be aware of it?

When you determine that a mod is being reasonable, exactly what body of information are you assessing to make that judgment?

I think you should learn to read my friend.

 

[Enmos]

His own, clearly... but to be more precise, I don't believe he has really looked at the arguments against Skinwalker; he certainly hasn't addressed the points I've raised, and I don't believe he's addressed SAM's or joepistole's either.

Nope, I didn't. How would it make any difference without any hard evidence ?
There's is something called character judgement and Skin has always appeared respectable to me. And, yes, I did receive an infraction from him once that I didn't agree with.

 

[Stryder]

copernicus:

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that as far as moderation here goes, one hand does not know what the other is doing.

As a matter of fact, there is an entire moderators' subforum that you cannot see, where moderators discuss problem posters, potentially contentious decisions, possible changes to site policies, the day-to-day housekeeping that moderators do that is largely invisible to members such as yourself, and a lot more besides.

If you think that whinging to a particular administrator will allow you to play off that administrator against another administrator or a moderator or whoever, think again. You won't be telling them anything they aren't already well aware of. The moderators are way ahead of you in this game.

It doesn't just stop there, we know when disgruntled ex-members return under sockpuppet's with their personal vendetta's which they continue to hash out like a scratched recorded.

One in particular might very well be near the end of another life expectancy.