People should have the right to discriminate

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or what......

Anyway....

If the person is good at what they do, they'll find another job.

If the person wasn't so irrationally anal about something so trivial, one wouldn't have to worry about moving to another city, or looking for work somewhere other than he may want to originally. That is absolutely ridiculous.

It is self-destructive to descriminate someone based on race... but it is your choice. (It is is a different matter if you are not the company owner)

It is self destructive, while being destructive to another also if a man cannot feed his family because someone is so ignorant that they cannot look past something so insignificant as the color of one's skin, and does not give him work or equal pay.

It is destructive if a man cannot look at himself as an equal to another because he is discriminated against.

Aren't you aware of why segregation was ever outlawed??

The boss at a company I used to work for was incredibly racist. He hired minorities because we worked n government contracts, and he was satisfying 'equal opritunity'. There was ABSOLUTELY nothing positive that came out of it. You can not force someone to suddenly leave their racism behind them. They'll just act on it more subtly. Atleast if it was in the open people wouldn't be hired into a position in which they have no opion to move up.

What was positive about it is that the minority did not have to worry about being unemployed. What is positive about it is that if your boss WAS racist he could have been sued for it. And what is positive about it is your bosses actions of discrimination would not influence others outside of his company and their families. (i.e. the company owner next door deciding that he would not allow minorities to work at his company either.)

As in chemistry, "A" is considered more negative than B, it is B that is considered postive relative to "A", despite that both COULD be considered negative.

 

[Nasor]

It's an interesting question. I'm under no obligation to hire anyone. Why am I not free to hire whomever I wish? No one has a fundamental right to work for me. Why is it legal for me to fire all of my employees but illegal for me to fire all of my female employees?

 

[Tiassa]

What is it that people don't understand?

If a person can't find some other reason to discriminate against a person than the circumstances of their birth, that person needs to f-ck off.

Take "profiling", for example. Outside the Gorge Amphitheatre in BFE, Washington, the cops set up the strangest dragnet. The frontside approach is profiled, the backside approach is left unguarded ... :bugeye: But it was always fun standing at the roadside reminding the cops that they needed a better reason for this stupid roadblock than a concert in town. We noticed them profiling once when every car pulled over had a minority in it; there were three white guys and a mixed-black in our car; we got stopped. After the "no racial profiling" hammer started beating law enforcement in the head, everyone complained, it seems. But the cops who ran the roadblocks didn't bat an eye. The next time I went to a show, we passed through the roadblock. The profile that day, I can tell you, was simple: Japanese-brand SUV, pickup truck, or minivan; balding, bearded male with female companion. It's amazing how many of those were skulking around the Roger Waters show.

See, I still think the whole thing is stupid, but they found a way to get what they wanted without making race and gender the primary obstacles.

Seriously, if the only grounds for firing someone is their race or gender, they shouldn't be fired. If you're not creative enough to find a better reason and hide your bigotries in the process, you deserve to get sued, at least.

:m:,
Tiassa

 

[airavata]

racial discrimination is a product of ignorance.

frenchee watever......you think racial discrimination is ok? you think it's perfectly normal? are you living in this century?

employers can employ whomever they want....they can run an all male or all female company.....but they can't deny employement oppurtunities to an individual just because he/she is of a particular colour..or was born in a particular place etc.

racists are ignorant bigots...are you one frenchee?

 

[Nasor]

Originally posted by airavata
employers can employ whomever they want....they can run an all male or all female company

No they can't.

racists are ignorant bigots...are you one frenchee?

Yeah, he's interested in discussing the topic of individual rights vs. the rights of groups, so he must be an ignorant bigot.

 

[airavata]

don't misquote me nasor. i asked him......you are assuming that i am implying that he is an ignorant bigot.
don't make false assumptions and hence reveal your ignorance.

 

[Mrhero54]

For Those who want "The Right to Discriminate in the Work Place"

We do not live in a world were everyone has developed a sense of morality, and ethics out of pure reason. Most morality and ethics come from family, religion, nationality, and race. These sources are flawed which will eventually equate to things like racsim and discrimanation in ignorant people. The mere fact that people identify themselves with race, religion or nationality will lead to racism and such in ignorant people. The government (yes, the baised, incompent, and racsist gov't) provides a moral service by making laws that hinders people's right to extend their personal faults into public and semi-public arenas. Yes, the gov't does and should impose morality to a certain extent.

Unfortunetely, ignorance will not stop an individual from being successful but it can stop other people from following suit.

Example. White country hick starts a business in his rural hometown. It begans to grow so he starts hiring more empolyees. Because of his limited knowledge of asian people he refuses to hire two koreans despite their qualifications. He instead hires to like minded hicks. The koreans, rightfully feeling discrimated against, eventually find a job and start their own business 10 years later. They decide that they are not hiring white country hicks. The korean's business starts to grow and one day two white hicks come to find a job....and the cycle continues. The right to discrimate in the work place will only lead to separation and division between people wheter it's based on race or nationality and the people that are economically superior NOW will band and further distant themselves from those trying to get there, eventually making it near impossible to enter the realm of the "haves" and leave the realm of the "have-nots"

A huge gap between rich and poor coupled with race, nationality, etc. issues will lead to a whole nest of other problems...

Think on that, if your all upset about not having your precious "right to discrimate against people"

 

[Nasor]

Airavata. you phrased your question in a way that suggested anyone who disagreed with you must be an ignorant bigot.

 

[Nasor]

Re: For Those who want "The Right to Discriminate in the Work Place"

Originally posted by Mrhero54
The government (yes, the baised, incompent, and racsist gov't) provides a moral service by making laws that hinders people's right to extend their personal faults into public and semi-public arenas.

The government could use this same sort of justification to outlaw any public expression or action that it doesn't consider to be in the 'best interest of society.'

 

[Frencheneesz]

Damnit, I've created a monster. I'm going on vacation for a week and I wonder if Ill be able to read all the material when I get back.

tiassa: Good point of view, but seriously, just cause I read it all doesn't mean everyone will. Try to consolodate a bit.

"If the person wasn't so irrationally anal about something so trivial, one wouldn't have to worry about moving to another city, or looking for work somewhere other than he may want to originally. That is absolutely ridiculous."

It would also be nice if we could all sit back and enjoy ourselves without working too, but nice isn't the point. The government doesn't (or I should say shouldn't) have the right to force people to spend their money on something they don't want.
Yes, you don't make something illegal because you think it leads to something else that is illegal.

"One can think as MUCH as he likes. It isn't "free thought" that's outlawed. It is acting on those thoughts that is prohibited."

Ok, you're right here. But what I was getting at is imposition of ideas. We should give people the opportunity to follow the law. Just because you don't think racism is a good mind set, doesn't mean you are right.

"Maybe it's within someone rights, however beating someone very brutally, because they made you "really mad" should also be within someone's rights. "

Are we arguing about the legality of a beating or of racism? Think about the negative affects of anti-racism laws. Stupid people in "minorty" groups can sew for the most legitimate firings, refusals, and arrests. Laws like this give people a way to use the law for their own unearned profit.

"What was positive about it is that the minority did not have to worry about being unemployed."

How is that in any way positive for anyone but that one person? Sure it is great for that minority, but maybe he has a reason for worrying. Maybe he really is inept and if he is fired by those that are racist he won't be hired by those that aren't. Like I said before, HOLDING A JOB IS NOT A PERSONS RIGHT. A job should be earned not forced.

ya, ok I gtg. see yall in a week

 

[Carnuth]

augusta golf-club argument:

THe descrimination isnt about whether woman can play, they CAN play, but as guests. Its whether they can become members. If they can play, they should be able to be members, its pretty simple. You cant say we dont want women being members because we dont want them to play golf with us if they are already playing golf! Something else is up. That something else is business deals between major CEOs going on behind closed doors which women arent allowed to take part in. Is that fair?

 

[Frencheneesz]

1. Its their decision. A private organization has every right to descriminate as far as I'm concerned (of course as long as they abide the rest of the law). Why should you force them to do something like that if they don't wanna?

2. If you want a golf-club that lets in both male and female members, then build one yourself, don't force others to conform to your ideas.

3. Oh man seriously, its golf. Who cares?

 

[Asguard]

the question is would you be happy surporting a chef if he cant find work cause all the restrants dont employ gays, or women

if you would all be happy with your taxs paying for him then go discrimination

 

[Salty]

If you want to racist be racist as long as you don't violate somebodies rights I don't care. You don't have a right for somebody to be nice to you. If a business man won't hire you then go find another job. Most people arent racist so there is not a problem.

If the person is the companies owner he will probably loose some money because of his views. If he is the manager for a corporation he will probably get fired for not hiring people for thier skill instead of thier.

There isint a big shortage of work in the United States. Any competant entrepreneur puts profit before who he thinks is cool.

Example. White country hick starts a business in his rural hometown. It begans to grow so he starts hiring more empolyees. Because of his limited knowledge of asian people he refuses to hire two koreans despite their qualifications. He instead hires to like minded hicks. The koreans, rightfully feeling discrimated against, eventually find a job and start their own business 10 years later. They decide that they are not hiring white country hicks. The korean's business starts to grow and one day two white hicks come to find a job....and the cycle continues. The right to discrimate in the work place will only lead to separation and division between people wheter it's based on race or nationality and the people that are economically superior NOW will band and further distant themselves from those trying to get there, eventually making it near impossible to enter the realm of the "haves" and leave the realm of the "have-nots"

Or the korean guys grow up and don't do that. They probably see how the other company failed because of racist hiring practices and hire anybody that is qualified.

THe descrimination isnt about whether woman can play, they CAN play, but as guests. Its whether they can become members. If they can play, they should be able to be members, its pretty simple. You cant say we dont want women being members because we dont want them to play golf with us if they are already playing golf! Something else is up. That something else is business deals between major CEOs going on behind closed doors which women arent allowed to take part in. Is that fair?

Some guys don't like to play golf with women. There is an all girl gym in my town should I join it? No! I know when I go to the gym the opposite sex distracts me and I can see why they seperate it.

Is it fair for big brother to step into your club/company and say "YOUR BAD PEOPLE DO THIS!" The woman being left out can go and start her own company.

the question is would you be happy surporting a chef if he cant find work cause all the restrants dont employ gays, or women

He can just not tell them he is gay. Or get a job at the 100s of other non-discriminating resteraunts. Or she can start her own company.

 

[Balder1]

A very controversial issue. I want to keep my own freedom of choice in my moral views, but racist bigotry really is rooted in ignorance(even if whites are smarter) and blind hatred, and so far the effects of making it illegal to discriminate have been pleasant.

Discrimination against people because of their views and their choices(i.e, homosexuals/bisexuals/trisexuals) is a different matter, though.

I'll just say affirmative action and all that stuff is bad. Hopefully the Supreme Court'll get rid of it.