People of the Book

kmguru

Staff member
An excerpt from the net. Comments are welcome.

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I urge all of my readers to make copies of this report and send them to your friends and relatives. The information is too critical to be overlooked in the madness of this election year.

Watching and listening to the Democrat Party candidates is tantamount to enduring the Chinese water torture. The blah, blah, blah goes on and on and nothing of value comes out except the pain of listening to the same nothingness over and over again. I won't take the time or space to repeat what you have heard so many mind numbing times but what you have not heard is crucial.

President Bush and his administration spokesmen are not telling the American people what they really need to know about this "war". If they don't do that between now and November, it may cost them the election.

The war against terror did not begin on September 11, 2001, nor will it end with the peaceful transition to civilian authority in Iraq, whenever that may be. In fact, Iraq is but a footnote in the bigger context of this encounter, but an important one nonetheless.

This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the "Third Great Jihad." They are operating within the framework of a time line, which reaches back to the very creation of Islam in the seventh century and are presently attempting to recreate the dynamics, which gave rise to the religion in the first two hundred years of its existence. No religion in history grew as fast, in its infancy, and the reasons for the initial growth of Islam are not hard to explain when you understand what the world was like at the time of Muhammad's death in 632 AD. Remember that the Western Roman Empire was in ruins and the Eastern Empire, based in Constantinople, was trying desperately to keep the power of its early grandeur while transitioning to Christianity as a de facto state religion. The costs to the average person were large as he was being required to meet the constantly rising taxes levied by the state along with the tithes coerced by the Church.

What Islam offered was the "carrot or the sword". If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn't, you faced death. The choice was not hard for most to make, unless you were a very devoted martyr in the making. At the beginning, even the theology was not too hard for most to swallow, considering that both Jewry and Christianity were given their due by the Prophet. There is but one God-Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet, as was Jesus, and the pre-Christian Jewish prophets of the Torah (Old Testament). Both were called "children of the book" –– the book being the Koran, which replaced both the Old and New Testaments for former Christians and Jews.

With this practical approach to spreading the "word" Islam grew like wildfire, reaching out from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula in all directions. This early growth is what the Muslims call the "First" great Jihad and it met with little resistance until Charles Martel of France, the father of Charlemagne, stopped them in the battle of Tours in France, after they had firmly established Islam on the Iberian Peninsula. This first onslaught against the West continued in various forms and at various times until Islam was finally driven out of Spain in 1492 at the battle of Granada.

The "Second great jihad" came with the Ottoman Turks. This empire succeeded in bringing about the downfall of Constantinople as a Christian stronghold and an end to Roman hegemony in all of its forms. The Ottoman Empire was Islam's most successful expansion of territory even though the religion itself had fractured into warring sects and bitter rivalries with each claiming the ultimate truths in "the ways of the Prophet". By 1683 the Ottomans had suffered a series of defeats on both land and sea and the final, unsuccessful attempt to capture Vienna set the stage for the collapse of any further territorial ambitions and Islam shrunk into various sheikhdoms, emir dominated principalities, and roving tribes of nomads. However, by this time a growing anti Western sentiment, blaming its internal failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and setting the stage for a new revival known as Wahhabism, a sect which came into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian Peninsula shortly before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam, which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites.

Wahhabism calls for the complete and total rejection or destruction of anything and everything, which is not based in the original teachings of The Prophet and finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afghani Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of the "Third Jihad", who is Wahhabi as were his 9/11 attack teams, 18 of which were also Saudi.

The strategy for this "holy war" did not begin with the planning of the destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the toppling of the Shah of Iran back in the late 1970's. With his plans and programs to "westernize" his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target. Remember "America Held Hostage"?

Thanks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the Jimmy Carter State Department, the revolution was set into motion, the Shah was deposed, his armed forces scattered or murdered and stage one was complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to support its grand design or what they call the "Great Caliphate".

What this design calls for is the replacement of all secular leadership in any country with Muslim majorities. This would include Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, all the Emirates, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Malaysia, Indonesia and finally what they call the "occupied territory, " Israel.

As a part of this strategy, forces of the Jihad will infiltrate governments and the military as a prelude to taking control, once the secular leadership is ousted or assassinated. Such was the case in Lebanon leading to the Syrian occupation and in Egypt with the murder of Anwar Sadat, along with the multiple attempts on the lives of Hussein in Jordan, Mubarak of Egypt and Musharraf in Pakistan. Pakistan is a particular prize because of its nuclear weapons. (Please note al Qaeda call for the Islamic-militant overthrow of Musharraf in Pakistan on March 25, just recently.)

The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic goals. First, the U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in Southeast Asia following Vietnam. Second, taking control of the oil wealth in the Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves. Third, using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations and paralyse western resistance, leading to total withdrawal from all Islamic dominated countries.

Evidence of the Bush Administration awareness of this plan is found in the events immediately following the 9/11 attack. The administration's first move was to shore up Pakistan and Egypt, believing that these two would be the next targets for al Qaeda, while Americans focused on the disaster in New York. The administration also knew that the most important objective was to send a loud and clear message that the U.S. was in the region to stay, not only to shore up our allies but to send a message to the Jihadists.

The attack on Afghanistan was necessary to break-up a secure al Qaeda base of operations and put their leadership on the run or in prison. The war in Iraq also met a very strategic necessity in that no one knew how much collaboration existed between Saddam Hussein and the master planners of the Third Jihad or Hussein's willingness to hand off WMDs to terrorist groups including the PLO in Israel. What was known were serious indications of on-going collaboration as Saddam funnelled money to families of suicide bombers attacking the Israelis and others in Kuwait. <O:p></O:p>

What the U.S. needed to establish was a significant base of operations smack dab in the middle of the Islamic world, in a location, which effectively cut it in half. Iraq was the ideal target for this and a host of other strategic reasons. Leadership of various anti-American groups both here and abroad understood the vital nature of the Bush initiative and thus launched their demonstrations, worldwide, to "Stop The War". Failing this, they also laid plans to build a political campaign inside this country, with the War in Iraq as a plebiscite, using a little known politician as the thrust point –– Howard Dean. This helps to explain how quickly the Radical Left moved into the Dean campaign with both people and money, creating what the clueless media called the "Dean Phenomenon".

By building on the left-wing base in the Democrat party and the "Hate Bush" crowd, the campaign has already resulted in a consensus among the aspirants, minus Joe Lieberman, to withdraw the U.S. from Iraq and turn the operation over to the U.N. And, if past is prologue, i.e., Vietnam, once the U.S. leaves it will not go back under any circumstances, possibly even the destruction of Israel. Should George W. Bush be defeated in November we could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic countries and The Clash of Civilizations, predicted several years ago by Samuel Huntington, would then become a life-changing event in all of our lives. <O:p></O:p>

What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attacks was how American sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism spread across the country. They were not expecting this reaction, based on what had happenned in the past, nor were they expecting the determined resolve of the President himself. I also believe this is one of the reasons we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to wait, just as one of their tactical mentors; V.I. Lenin admonished..."two steps forward, one step back". <O:p></O:p>

A couple of additional events serve as valuable footnotes to the current circumstances we face: the destruction of the human assets factor of the CIA during the Carter presidency, presided over by the late Senator Frank Church. This fact has plagued our intelligence agencies right up to this very day with consequences which are now obvious. And, Jimmy Carter himself, the one man who must bear the bulk of the responsibility for setting the stage of the Third Jihad. Americans should find little comfort in how the Democrat contenders constantly seek the "advice and counsel" of this despicable hypocrite. <O:p></O:p>

Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French. Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria (by turning the country over to the first of the Arab terrorists, Ammad Ben Bella), the country itself is now occupied by Islamic immigrants totalling twenty percent of the population. <O:p></O:p>

We are in the battle of our lives, a battle which will go on for many years, possibly even generations. If we fail to understand what we are facing or falter in the challenge of "knowing our enemy" the results will be catastrophic. Imagine a world where al Qaeda regimes control 75% of the world's oil, have at their disposal nuclear weapons, legions of willing suicide soldiers, and our national survival is dependent on the good graces of Kofi Annan and the United Nations.

There is one final footnote which may be the scariest of all. Either none of the Democrats currently leading the drive to their party's nomination are aware of the facts of the Great Caliphate and Third Jihad or they do know and they don't care so long as their power lust is satisfied.

But, I can guarantee you one thing for sure: some of their most ardent supporters are aware of this and will do anything they can to bring it about.

-Larry Abraham
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A fine example of what will make america into a very dangerous "third world country".

This man mingles a couple of fact and half truths and fantasies to be able to see the theater set for armageddon and to make his followers see it too. What scares me are the "hillbilies" that will believe him. Btw it is the pinnacle of idiocy is to believe the "Wahabi" and the Shi'a plotting together.
 
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"Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French. Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria (by turning the country over to the first of the Arab terrorists, Ammad Ben Bella), the country itself is now occupied by Islamic immigrants totalling twenty percent of the population."

Surely a cause for alarm for any self-respecting French citizen. :rolleyes:

And I won't even read it all, to tell you the truth, hardly anyone is going to read this (all).
 
So, are we saying that Christians do not have anything to fear - even if Saudi Arabia kingdom falls to the Islamists in the next few years?

Here is another interesting item that could have some links.

Seymour Hersh | Plan B: Israel Backs Iraqi Kurds
 
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Why the West Is Losing the War on Terror
 
Bruce Wayne said:
When did they ever need to fear from Muslim dominion?

Incompetence, heresy and the like!

Muslim dominion in your dreams! :p

The Holy Crusaders of our Lord have already proven INFINITE superiority.

Bow your head to God!

:D
 
§outh§tar said:
Incompetence, heresy and the like!

Muslim dominion in your dreams! :p

The Holy Crusaders of our Lord have already proven INFINITE superiority.

Bow your head to God!

:D

Oh, this is your reply for "Are all gods egocentric?"!?

You are a funny man :rolleyes:
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Oh, this is your reply for "Are all gods egocentric?"!?

You are a funny man :rolleyes:

I do believe you are gravely mistaken.

We are not in the "Are all gods egocentric" thread.
 
Since this is the Religion subforum, I thought the debate should reflect what is going on currently and the trends in each of the 3 religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). My understanding is that according to Islam, Mohammed is the third and final prophet and their expectation was that by accepting Moses and Jesus - there would be one religion to cover the people of the Book (old, new and quran).

In essense except Moses (because he was the first), all the prophets wanted to integrate the religions rather be a part of the division. Yet, here we are in a situation where Wahabism is in full force with billions already spent.

So, what is the future in the coming conflict? Where it is going to end? Do Christians even think, there is a conflict brewing or blow it off as mere political posturing? What are the solutions in a "live and let live" scenario or is that possible?

While there are hardcore group in all three religions, if the common and moderate group gets severely impacted, then how that would play out? Should we question what is happening or bury our head in the sand and wish the problem go away?

Though social issues are complex, it is integrated into the religion of each group. So we can not discuss socio-econo-political issues without discussing religion.

Hence my post. It is similar to the thinking in many thinktanks in USA.
 
kmguru said:
So we can not discuss socio-econo-political issues without discussing religion.

Quite a mouthful..

Christians will/should not sit on their hands because it is not in their neck of the woods.

I have seen some very disturbing images of Christians being mutilated by Moslems and it makes me want to return the favor in it's fullness. Imprisonment, torture, starvation.. just to have the elect of Christ turn over to Satanic doctrine.

Christians must continue to be 'tolerant', that is to refrain from retaliation. If a Muslim is being treated, or is treating, another in an ungodly way, we must stand up for truth.

We must never be like Americans, who only scream murder when their own is killed but do not even bat an eyelash when a muslim is killed.
 
SouthStar,

The Holy Crusaders of our Lord have already proven INFINITE superiority.
I hope you realize that the last time Christians mounted a Holy Crusade against Islam they were well and truly defeated. So what is this “already” nonsense?

Kat
 
Katazia said:
SouthStar,

I hope you realize that the last time Christians mounted a Holy Crusade against Islam they were well and truly defeated. So what is this “already” nonsense?

Kat

I was referring to the outcome of Armageddon, which has already been decided.

He who laughs last, laughs best.

Anyway,

Does anyone think the article seems to be overly-biased? I smell a hint of someone who worships the west as superior but maybe it's just me.
 
Kmguru,

An interesting article, a good read. But I think you give the jihadists and Bush far more credit than either deserve. It is good fodder for the conspiracy theorists but Bush is simply a moron and his cronies are pure political extremists who have so far irresponsibly bluffed their way through this whole debacle.

The Islamic terrorists truly think they have a divine destiny and cannot lose, such is the stupidity of religious fanatics, but their actions are simply turning the world against them, and if they continue their barbaric beheadings then the rest of the Islamic world will turn against them.

We do not need the brash irresponsible actions of the Bushists and we need to return to a more considered and responsible government, something the rest of the world can respect since Bush is very much out of favor throughout most of the world outside the USA.

Kat
 
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SouthStar,

I was referring to the outcome of Armageddon, which has already been decided.
Oh I see, you are just quoting fantasy mythology when we were discussing history.

He who laughs last, laughs best.
Only a fool counts his chickens before they hatch.

Does anyone think the article seems to be overly-biased? I smell a hint of someone who worships the west as superior but maybe it's just me.
Even your opinions are ill-informed.

Kat
 
Katazia said:
SouthStar,

Oh I see, you are just quoting fantasy mythology when we were discussing history.

Please do not fool yourself so.

Only a fool counts his chickens before they hatch.
But even the fool knows his chickens will hatch.

Even your opinions are ill-informed.

Kat

Be still and read the article first.
 
Katazia said:
The Islamic terrorists truly think they have a divine destiny and cannot lose, such is the stupidity of religious fanatics, but their actions are simply turning the world against them, and if they continue their barbaric beheadings then the rest of the Islamic world will turn against them.

Not quite. All the information coming out of the terrorists are based on the following items that they are against:

(1) U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia
(2) U.S. military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan
(3) U.S. support for Israel
(4) U.S. government doctrine of regime change towards a nonmuslim based government

Because of this, they get the tacit support from the Arab world. And that is the problem. It has really nothing to do with religion per se, but somehow integrated to it. (similar to the perception of Bushes higher power telling him to invade Iraq!)
 
Bush was divinely inspired? Heresy and malice mingled with hatred!!

A divinely inspired man would not send troops to slaughter others and then condemn the victims for retaliation.

Lunacy of the highest order!
 
"What Islam offered was the "carrot or the sword". If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn't, you faced death."

Untrue.

"Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French. Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria "

What were they doing there in the first place?

this is not to justify anything. but i dont understand why people are so shocked at any of this. the egyptians did bad things to the jews. the jews to the christians. the europeans to the arabs. the arabs to the europeans. etc.

for someone to think that ALL members of their country/religion/race/civilization have been innocent throughout the entire history of human kind, is very much mistaken. and it is not wise to pursue a logical aurgument with.

in todays day and age, there is blood on everyones hands in one way or another.

peace.
 
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