Pedophelia

[Ellimist]

Ha, what an ominous title for a thread...

Anyway, I live in Kansas City, KS, and I just heard something interesting on the news.

The local CBS channel has basically set up a sting operation for pedophelia. Apparently, they put out an ad. This ad brought many older men to a hotel room expecting to have sex with an underage teenage female. "What they found was our cameras".

I assume they were working with police, but they didn't mention it. They did mention that one of the men that showed up works at a high school.

What do you think of this?
Should they have done it? Implications?

 

[Ozymandias]

Do they have the right to do this? Shouldn't this be in the Ethics, Morality, and Justice thread, anyways?

I think it's interesting how they pulled it off, and it seemed to be effective, however, can they verify that all of the men were hoping to have sex with an underage female? Perhaps the men were investigating it themselves, to sting others?

Ah, and do you have the source? (If it's posted online, that is.) It might be helpful.

 

[Gifted]

I could just see a bunch of the men caught in the sting being cops in a sting.

 

[CounslerCoffee]

You forgot the article:

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A local television station can broadcast an investigative report on internet sex predators in its entirety after a federal judge vacated Thursday an earlier order barring parts of the story from the air.

A man identified in the story by CBS-affiliate KCTV5 filed a defamation lawsuit Wednesday, and later in the day, U.S. District Judge Scott O. Wright ordered the station not to broadcast his name and face.

http://kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=1632339&nav=1PucKe8p

 

[cosmictraveler]

I don't believe that anyone should be exposed on TV unless they have had a trial and were found guilty first. Many times when people are arrested for something and are given a trial are eventually found not guilty of their offences. So when you just show people that are arrested but not shown that they were found innocent of anything, that is wrong. What happens if a man just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time? This type of TV show is the bottom of the barrell to do, it costs little to produce and no actors are needed. I'd like to see well written TV shows dealing with this type of situation rather that this bullshit.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Ellimist - if you are surprised by the idea of a high school teacher that wants to have sex with underage kids, then it's probably been a while since you were in high school. There were at least four teachers in my HS known to be a problem, and a few more that people avoided on suspicion.

 

[Athelwulf]

Ellimist - if you are surprised by the idea of a high school teacher that wants to have sex with underage kids, then it's probably been a while since you were in high school. There were at least four teachers in my HS known to be a problem, and a few more that people avoided on suspicion.

You serious? I'm in high school now, and we don't have that problem here.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

You're an ignorant child, you wouldn't know.
Looking back I can unmistakably see plenty of pedo teachers in my schooling history, but I was oblivious at the time.

I could just see a bunch of the men caught in the sting being cops in a sting.

That reminds me of a news story i read a while ago. In a mexican community there was a string of little girls raped and murdered.
For some reason 2 undercover cops working on that case were taking photos of little girls when they were attacked by an angry mob who suspected them of being the pedophilic murderers. They were beaten, covered in gasoline and burned alive on the street.

 

[Tiassa]

A news organization should create its own headlines only by accident. Sort of. Er ... more like creating its own headlines as a symptom of something more legitimate. If CNN is about to be bought out, for instance, we can't expect them to not mention it among one or another bloc of headlines.

Every once in a while, a newspaper reporter fishing for the human side of a story will make his or her own headline by helping identify a Jane Doe at the morgue, or something like that. As long as it's not part of some public-relations scheme where a newspaper has their reporters out doing random "community interest" work, fine.

With something like this pedo sting, it really depends on what direction it flows. If a news outlet gets a reliable (definition subject to debate) lead that, say, the local elementary school principal is a predator, journalistic integrity demands that the story be tracked down and exhausted. Then, and only then should the decision be made to run with it. You got a legitimate story and a predatory educator? Show him the spotlight. You have a bogus lead? Kill it and never speak of it again. You can't close the book either way? Refer it to law enforcement and stay tight on the story.

One of the problems of conducting this sort of investigation is that there is a fine line between a sting and a trap, and traps aren't allowed. Entrapment occurs when law enforcement puts before a person a direct opportunity to violate the law. Drug stings, for instance. There was a period when cops could get away with just walking up to people and offering them drugs. However, it is reasonable to conclude that a person agreeing to buy drugs would not otherwise have been seeking them had they not been offered. Even as a person with a lengthy drug history, I can say this has happened to me. Trust me, I wasn't looking for mushrooms, but some junkie with some good caps gave me a better-than-fair price because his dealer wanted to sell, not barter. Just walked up to me on the sidewalk because he recognized my stoner's grin and asked for a cigarette. While I fished one out of the pack, he said, "You lookin' for mushrooms?" At that point, it's safe to go ahead with the deal: a cop cannot legitimately bust me that way.

The same argument comes up in prostitution. Maybe you're not out looking for a hooker, but you've had a rough day and while it would never occur to you otherwise, here's a woman offering you a jumpstart for your day at a price you can afford, and suddenly it's not such a bad idea.

And so, it seems to go, with internet predators.

Up here, though, when there's an chat-bust on the local news, at least one of the local affiliates likes to show this distorted view of the text while the report drones on. I remember once seeing the phrase, "bring extra underwear" during a story about a guy trolling for what he thought was a fourteen year-old girl. Ye gads.

That's something that slays me about these internet predators. Drug users, even the junkies, know the rules. The junkies especially slip up in the fever of addiction, but generally even they know what to listen for, what to look for, to know if they're being stung. What the hell is wrong with these freakin' predators? If you want evidence of illness, there it is. They're getting busted because they're not capable of being patient.

And yes, sometimes you duck good product on a hunch that's wrong. And smart lawbreakers will; it part of the game.

These guys getting caught aren't capable of being as careful as a f@cking smack addict.

Disease. Malady. Insanity.

News at eleven: exploitation.

 

[Neildo]

Heh, my computer science teacher my freshman and sophmore year used to talk about porn every now and then. He was a total freak. Was a white guy in his mid 40's I guess, had almost a mini fro, thick moustache, and wore some gold chains.

Also my sophmore year there was this black, jerry-curled, gold-chain wearing teacher who taught I think it was social studies. Hell, I can't even remember his name or what the class even was because he would only be in for around 10 minutes total, not even all at once, but in short amounts throughout the class. He had a couple sofas in his room, lights dimmed, a bunch of rock and jazz posters, a radio in the room, and people rarely even did any work in there. We just sat on the couches while listening to the radio and playing Crazy 8's practically 95% of the time.

This was back in '94-'95. I wonder if they ever did anything with the students. The comp guy was a perv, the black dude was cool with all the blacks and especially the girl ones. So no idea for sure about them, but there was this one hot younger teacher that all the guys tried to get with. No idea what class she taught though. She was sweet. (I can't believe all these female teachers as of late being charged with rape. Whatever, the guys wanted it, and I'm not using it as an excuse as guys that actually do rape girls use. They seriously did want it, heh.)

- N

 

[Asguard]

Neildo

it doesnt matter if the guys "wanted it"

if i was a teacher of year 9s and there was a cute girl in the class who came over to my house to get laid but she was 15 would you think i deserved to go to jail if i did it?

it doesnt MATTER if they want it the teacher is surposed to be responcable

 

[Repo Man]

Men who are find high school girls attractive are not pedophiles.

Pedophilia involves reoccurring sexual arousal and desires or fantasies involving sexual impulses toward a pre-adolescent child or children. The pedophile must be above age 16, and the sexual attraction must involve a child of age 13 or younger who is at least 5 years younger than the adult. A pedophile has either acted on these sexual impulses, or the fantasies and / or sexual arousal and impulses disturb the individual. The pedophile is sexually aroused because the child is a child, regardless of the pedophile's sexual orientation, or the child's gender.
http://www.umkc.edu/sites/hsw/issues/pedophil.html

A teacher in a high school who finds teenage students attractive is normal. To act on these impulses isn't normal. The risks involved make most sensible people steer clear. But I imagine that many teachers regularly fantasize about their more attractive students.

Yes, I really feel sorry for highschool aged boys who are "taken advantage of" by older attractive women. Those poor, poor boys (lucky bastards).

 

[Neildo]

it doesnt MATTER if they want it the teacher is surposed to be responcable

Who is the victim, the teacher or the student? What if the student persued the whole thing. Heck, what if a student rapes a teacher, is that considered rape since they're still a minor?

There is nothing wrong with a sexually active teen having sex with a person regardless of their age if their sexual hormones are flowing. A 16 or 17 year old has sex with someone of similar age yet that's okay? Sex is still sex. Age is nothing. Go ahead and have sex with people your own age, but not those older than you? So stupid. Gotta love the rules of "society". If someone decides to be sexually active, age shouldn't matter. Sex is the "so-called" problem, not age. If one wants to delve into the realm of sexual activity, that's their problem. Either have sex or don't have it period. To add these silly little specific rules is stupid.

A teacher having sex with a student is no different than a boss having sex with a worker below them. Let's remove the whole teacher aspect of this as it tends to make things more complicated. What if a teen wanted to have sex with someone over the age of 18, is that wrong even though they persued it? That person over 18 should be more "responsible"? That's rubbish. Once grass grows on the field, everyone's ready to play. It's a normal biological thing and rules of society are holding them back. Heck, and I still can't believe there's stupid laws to outlaw certain sexual activities period regardless of age. It's illegal to sell sexual pleasure toys in Alabama. That just shows how stupid most Americans are when it comes to anything resembling nakedness. These whole statitory rape laws are no different. One day when the prudes of American awaken, those laws will be removed.

- N

 

[Asguard]

people (especially girls) can go through pubity at 8. Does that mean they are are ready to sleep with a 60 year old? that is compleatly different from experimenting with someone your own age. There is less chance of them being taken advatage of by someone else just starting out. Thats compleatly normal, but someone who is older knows how to pressure them into something they might not WANT to do or might convince them they want but they really dont. YES the first is rape but shouldnt we also take into account the second?

thats what stat rape is for

In victoria you can sleep with anyone at 16 EXCEPT if they are under your care, like a teacher or a step parent ect. In that case where the balance of power is more leaning one way than normal you have to be 18

 

[DeeCee]

Just throw this in...

My first sexual experience was with a fifteen year old.
I won't tell you how old I was at the time (that would spoil the fun).
How old would I have had to have been to be a pedo?
14? 16? 18? 20? 25? 60?
and on what do you base the decision?

Dee Cee

 

[superluminal]

There are two conflicting imperatives in this discussion. Biological, and Societal. The biological imperative knows nothing of age. When a female enters puberty, she is at her biologically most attractive and will, under natural conditions, attract males of any age like bees to a fresh, warm honey pot. Society imposes restrictions based largely on and derived from ancient moral codes designed, by men, to control the freedom of, and access to, females. Today, the rules are largely arbitrary. In any event, the biological imperative is always there. If you are attracted to pubescent and post pubescent females, you are "normal". You will out-compete your peers in the genetic olympics. Can you act with impunity on your biological imperatives? Not today. When did young girls get "married-off" in past ages, to older men? Check it out.

 

[Asguard]

so you think an 8 year old (assuming they have gone through pubity) has the mental capacity to FREELY enter a sexual relationship? They would understand about STD's and pregnacy? They would be mentally capable of chosing forms of contraceptive?

 

[Muhlenberg]

In Holland the age of consent is 12.

When she worked for the ACLU, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg co-authored a report suggesting America lower the age of consent to 12.

 

[superluminal]

so you think an 8 year old (assuming they have gone through pubity) has the mental capacity to FREELY enter a sexual relationship? They would understand about STD's and pregnacy? They would be mentally capable of chosing forms of contraceptive?

Didn't say that at all. If this 8 yr old became child bearing (not likely), and looked it (even less likely), she might very well attract older males attention. I take it you've never seen a girl you thought was pretty damn hot (maybe you thought she was 18?), and found out later that she was 14 or 15? Are they prepared, in our society, to take on that kind of responsibility? I would say definitely not.

 

[Bells]

My first sexual experience was with a fifteen year old.

15 years old physically or was she a 20 year old with the mental capacity of a 15 year old?

How old would I have had to have been to be a pedo?
14? 16? 18? 20? 25? 60?

14 years old.. well you're a hero since you're dating an older woman and the 15 year old's friends would probably consider her a loser. As a 16 year old, society would consider you both cute. As an 18 year old dating a 15 year old, well, lets just say she'd be pissed off as you went out to bars drinking and she'd have to try and get in with a fake ID. Your friends might start to consider you a bit of a loser for dating a 15 year old when you're 18, but she and her friends would think it was cool to be dating a guy who can show a real licence at a bar to be allowed in and served a drink. As a 20 year old dating a 15 year old, one would think you were unable to find an adult to spend time with you. Plus society would view you as a paedophile at law. As a 25 year old you're definitely in the loser category unable to find a woman and you'd also be considered to be a weirdo and a freak. Your friends probably think you're insane or a freak for going out with someone so much younger than you and unable by law to go to the places you'd want to go to with your mates. Her parents would probably view you as the devil's spawn and her father would probably try to kill you each time you'd come to pick her up for a date and you'd be reminded that she has a curfew. As a 25 year old dating a 15 year old, you'd probably be arrested and ridiculed on the inside and the outside of the prison gates, not to mention that the inmates would probably beat the shit out of you for being a pervert. Not to mention that society would view you as a paedophile and you'd probably be prosecuted as such. Now as a 60 year old dating or having sex with a 15 year old... well.. You're not only a pervert but also a paedophile.

The biological imperative knows nothing of age. When a female enters puberty, she is at her biologically most attractive and will, under natural conditions, attract males of any age like bees to a fresh, warm honey pot.

Apart from her boobs starting to grow, what other indication do you have that a young girl has entered puberty? Do you know that she's started her period? Her boobs may be getting a bit knobbly, but that doesn't mean that she's fully entered puberty as yet.

Women are not baboons. Our arses do not become red nor do we emit a particular scent to let males know that we're ready to mate. Males do not usually know when a girl enters puberty unless he's told, either that or he goes riffling through her garbage trying to find used pads and tampons. Growing boobs and the way she dresses have nothing to do with it, especially when you consider that they now make g-strings for 6 year olds.

Society imposes restrictions based largely on and derived from ancient moral codes designed, by men, to control the freedom of, and access to, females. Today, the rules are largely arbitrary. In any event, the biological imperative is always there.

Young girls, even though have just gone through puberty, are not always able to be in a position to enter into a sexual relationship, be in mentally or physically. While society has imposed these rules and regulations in regards to the age of consent, we should consider the consequences of the non-existence of such laws. For example, healthwise, young girls are not always able to physically deal with the results of a sexual relationship. While she may be fertile and can fall pregnant, she may not be able to safely deliver the child. In poor Sub-Saharan Africa, we're seeing young girls suffering from obstetric fistula, usually the result of long and protracted labour which result in the girl either losing the child as the child dies in the birth canal or they suffer tissue damage due to the pressure of the baby's head on the pelvis, which creates a hole between the vagina and the bladder or rectum, which then results in the girl suffering from a constant leakage of urine or feces. The girl is then ostracised by her family and community because she smells and there's nothing she can do about it. While modern medical care should prevent this from happening, girls with bodies not capable of giving birth are at risk. They may have gone through puberty and therefore be sexually attractive to grown men who seek the young to implant their seed, ensuring the betterment of their genes, but their bodies may not be able to carry or birth the child.

How about we just ignore the rules laid down by society. Lets look at you as an individual. Lets say you have a 12 year old daughter who's just gotten her period and she's growing boobs. Would you as her parent allow her to date a 30 year old male who finds her sexually appealing because she's now ripe? Think of it in that sense. Some parents and cultures do allow it, and others do not. It depends on the individual. I can tell you now, if the child I am now carrying turns out to be a girl and she's in her early teens and going through puberty and some 20 or 30 year old looks at her as though she's some sexual object because he thinks she looks hot and tries to approach her, I'd have his nuts in a jar and his head impaled on a stick on my front lawn as a warning to others. But then that's just me.